However, we're discussing DmC, and the final product that is DmC Dante. Anything else is irrelevant at this point.

What point are you trying to make about DmC Dante? I admit he is not the camp homo, yet why is that a bad thing?

The goal for us is to redefine what's cool about (Dante) in this game.

Whats your point? Are you saying the camp homo was cool? I'm in complete agreement with Capcom and Ninja Theory; Dante needed to humanised after DMC4 Donte butchered an icon.

It's still got directional attacks, relative focus, and movement based on the position of the enemy. That's how.

Actually all of Bayonetta's moves are performable without the button lock. Like I said Bayonetta is never confined to relative movement to one enemy, even with the button lock. I suggest you go and play Bayonetta before talking about things you don't know about. She retains free flow movement at all times, like DmC and MGR. Like I said why should I accept you are right when Platinum Games, Capcom, even Sony Santa Monica arn't using that type of clunky button lock your reffering to. Answer the question!

Are you calling Tameem a liar now? Who should I believe, you or Ninja Theory and Capcom?

Believe what you want; yet now your saying DMC4's button lock in manual when previously you contradicted this point:

How are you manually selecting your target if the AI picks a target that it thinks you want to attack?

How are you manually selecting your target if you cycle through said targets until you reach the one you want?

Either your previous comments were wrong or your wrong now?

Are you calling Tameem a liar now?

Tameem confirmed DmC was manual. Besides, if DmC is automatic, prove it. I've already discredited you on this point, so  why don't you tell me, how is a lock on that manually allows you to select targets automatic? If your right you won't have a problem proving me wrong.

...DmC Dante has no teleport option, so that's a lie right off the bat. He also lacks Royal Guard, so there's another lie. And DmC Dante doesn't have trickster dash on the ground.

Lol. Wrong again. DmC Dante does have Dash. Haha. This is exactly what I'm reffering to mehanics not moves. You see the point of Teleport is for Dante to close the distance between himself and an enemy. In DmC there is no Teleport move, but there exist Angel/Demon Pull which give you the option of closing the distance between Dante and an enemy. The reason this works even better is because it gives you the option of either going to the enemy or bringing the enemy to you. Or if your really clever you can use's Aquila to close the distance between all on screen enemies.

The Teleport function only allowed one way of closing the distance between enemies. It didn't offer what DmC offers. Not to mention the Demon/Angel Pull have assoicated special moves assoicated with them that DMC4 dosen't have with Teleport. Your point about Royal Guard has been said already. Block and Charge was okay, yet it completely disrupted the pace of combat. It prevented Dante from moving what so ever and it prevented him from accessing the other style moves when he was in Royal Guard. The point of DmC is to integrate the Parry option into combat seemlessly while still maintaining the pace of the combat. Which DmC does really well, since Parry dosen't restrict Dante in any way, yet it also allows Dante to integrate different style moves into his playstyle.

Dodge, Trick, Trickster Dodge, Royal Guard, Roll, Jump, Jump + Trick, Skystar, Air Royal Guard, and Dreadnaught.

Lol. Haha. You really don't read my comments do you. These options like I said are to compenstate for the directionally locked manouvers of the combat engine. You see the reason you have something like Dash is because it compensates for the locked directions of the oridinary Dodge. You need that manouver because you can only Dodge in two directions in previous games.

DmC refines the mechanics far beyond what these moves offer. Not to mention your listing moves twice that only count as one in DmC.

For example, DmC offers Dodge in ANY diretion, which automtically makes it superior to DMC4's Dodge. It also allows Dash, which provides an invincibility mechanical effect. Then you have Air Dodge, which was unavabile in previous games, and Sky Star. Then you also have the Demon Dodge which provides a mehcnical effect the previous DMC games didn't offer. Then you have Parry, and Air Parry; these are listed as one move, yet it functions as two moves as you've listed for DMC4. Then you have all the standard stuff like Jump. Yet again Jump is available in ANY direction at all times, unlike previous games.

You see thats how DmC is superior, its not just the moves, its how those mehanics are integrated into the gameplay. All those moves you've listed are part of styles that exist seperately. In DmC all the moves are combined into one hollistic unit. Thus offerring more complexity with how you make combos. As you've seen with the videos.

Besides this is what you said previously:

Because quicksilver was by far the worst style in DMC3. Literally offered nothing for combo creativity and ate up Devil Trigger to boot.

According to you Quicksilver is the worst style. A lot of fans felt that DMC4 was inferior to DMC3 because it didn't feature as much. Quicksilver being one of those things. Its your opinion Quicksilver offered nothing, not a fact unfortunately. You do the typical thing here of trying to make DMC3 look bad to make DMC4 look good. Your a fraud, not a DMC fan.

Why did you accept a five year old with a propensity for swearing as Dante?

Dante's in his early to mid twenties during DmC. You should pay attention... If you don't like swearing then thats not my problem. Either way the camp homo is not Dante, he never was. Yet you accepted him, why?

By your own words, the threshold of video game criticism is being able to design a better system, so you better have your own game to challenge DMC4 since you're criticizing it.

Lol. You've resorted to arguments like this because you know you have no way of moving forward unless you are calling yourself more qualifed than Hideaki Itsuno and Capcom Japan.

I can simply say the same thing here. Its not my job to design a game better than DMC4, its Capcom's job and Ninja Theory's job. They designed and made a better game. If your not happy with that, then thats nothing to do with me. Yet I don't have to believe what you say. If you feel your more compitent than Hideaki Itsuno and Capcom Japan, be my guest and prove it. I've never claimed that I'm a game designer, yet I have claimed DMC4 was  a shoddy peice of work, and that Capcom have exceeded themselves this time. It you who is calling them liars and that we should accept your words (without any game of your own) over those of Capcom Japan.

You were the one who claimed that facts can't be complaints, not me.

Your specific complaint was your own opinion; hence why I reffered to your complaint as a lie, not a fact. You claim to question my literacy age, yet have no basic comprehension skills of your own to understand the difference between an opinion and a fact. Tyical arrogant DMC4 fan.

You continually put words in the mouth of Capcom, Ninja Theory, and the DMC fanbase, and then spew lies to cover your back when someone calls you on it. Your arguments consist of nothing but made up sources and phony facts.

You looked in a mirror recently this is exactly what you've done.

I've explained the combat as best I can in words, there are videos where words are not enough; there are reviews and the words of Capcom themselves, who confirmed they designed and implemented this combat engine to be the best in the series. Thus its a fact DmC performs better in the words of Capcom Japan, the reviewers and the fans who have told the truth.

If you choose to believe you know more than Capcom, thats fine. Yet I don't have to believe a word you say. Is that getting through your skull yet DMC4 fan?

Here's a hint: I didn't.

Of course you didn't. Because its nothing more than your opinion. Unfortantely I don't put much stock in the opinions of DMC4 fans. Hint: They think the camp homo is Dante.

Now take a system without a lock on system. Because of the lack of a lock on, you have to shift some of the moves that originally would have been assigned to a direction + button combo to a dedicated button entirely.

HAHAHAHAHAHAH. You really know nothing about action games. Theres actually a game out there called Bayonetta, not sure if you've heard of it. The button lock is superfluious, all of Bayonetta's moves can be performed without button lock. Yet Bayonetta has a lot more moves than DMC4; maybe in the region of 600, I don't know I haven't counted.

Now explain to me, if your right, how can Bayonetta have more moves than DMC4? I'm waiting?

This lends itself to new moves for the players, more combo creativity, and a combat system that is more open to experimentation and variety.

Actually it dosen't. You see directional attack are exactly that. They are locked by certain directions, and available when the camera perspective allows it. The point of DmC is to allow all those moves to be usuable in any direction at any time. Hence the point of fans who have created videos of greater creativeiy with more variety and experimentation.

Again I can ask you to prove that you can produce combo videos on the same level as the expert players to actually prove it is 'preposterously easy'. Yet again you have avoided that point claiming 'your videos were lost on the Internet'. Your claiming the game is preposterously easy, then prove it. Show me your expert videos and your name at the top of the DMD leaderboards. Linking me to videos with DMC4 fans who can't do this themselves is not proof. Its simply you finding videos of DMC4 fans who agree with you rather than showing their own ability to master the game as they claim.

Well, first off, the issue doesn't even exist on PC.

Wrong again, its on PC as well. You are a 'fraud' arn't you.

Once again, show me any article where Capcom Japan or Hideaki Itsuno have said that DmC is a better game than DMC4. If you do, I'll concede that we have different opinions.

Again I'm not here to dig through three years of interviews and videos to spoon feed you. If you have a problem believing something I've said, don't believe it. Yet explain to me why I should believe you over Capcom Japan and HIdeaki Itsuno?

In other words, worst comes to worst, you can play DMC4 like you do DmC (which should apparently be much better, right?)

No you can't play DMC4 like DmC. You see the previous games were built around the button-lock, it would be unplyable without that. A lot of the actions you need are tied to holding the button lock. DmC's elegance is in allowing the player to perform everything without holding a button lock, giving way to more creativity and experimentation. For example the cross-combo manouver which is new to the series.

What point are you trying to make about DmC Dante? I admit he is not the camp homo, yet why is that a bad thing?

Forgot again? I mentioned it in the last post.

It's to get you to finally stop with your silly insistence that DmC Dante is closer to DMC1 Dante.

Actually all of Bayonetta's moves are performable without the button lock. Like I said Bayonetta is never confined to relative movement to one enemy, even with the button lock. I suggest you go and play Bayonetta before talking about things you don't know about. She retains free flow movement at all times, like DmC and MGR. Like I said why should I accept you are right when Platinum Games, Capcom, even Sony Santa Monica arn't using that type of clunky button lock your reffering to. Answer the question!

Please, find any quote of mine, anywhere, where I said Bayonetta's directional attacks were lock on specific.

Go on, I'm waiting.

Believe what you want; yet now your saying DMC4's button lock in manual when previously you contradicted this point:

I've actually been saying that. for the past week and a half.

How are you manually selecting your target if the AI picks a target that it thinks you want to attack?

How are you manually selecting your target if you cycle through said targets until you reach the one you want? 

Either your previous comments were wrong or your wrong now?

Neither are "wrong." Your understanding of what the terms "manual" and "automatic" mean is what's wrong, despite the fact that I've explained them half a dozen times already.

You still haven't explained why I should believe you over Ninja Theory and Capcom.

Besides, if DmC is automatic, prove it.

Certainly.

Note the very first question in the interview.

And there's also the entire DMC fanbase which says that it has an automatic lock on, too.

Lol. Wrong again. DmC Dante does have Dash.

Not Trickster Dash, no.

As for the Angel Pull/Demon Pull, certainly, those exist, but those aren't evasion tactics. You don't have time to grab an enemy, waiting for the 10 or so start up frames, when he's already attacking you. With Trick, you do.

The Teleport function only allowed one way of closing the distance between enemies.

It works perfectly fine as an evasion tactic as well.

You really don't read my comments do you. These options like I said are to compenstate for the directionally locked manouvers of the combat engine.

Which I responded to later on showing how a directional attack system is actually far preferable.

Please refrain from inserting your foot in your mouth until you've read the entire post.

For example, DmC offers Dodge in ANY diretion, which automtically makes it superior to DMC4's Dodge. It also allows Dash, which provides an invincibility mechanical effect. Then you have Air Dodge, which was unavabile in previous games, and Sky Star. Then you also have the Demon Dodge which provides a mehcnical effect the previous DMC games didn't offer. Then you have Parry, and Air Parry; these are listed as one move, yet it functions as two moves as you've listed for DMC4. Then you have all the standard stuff like Jump. Yet again Jump is available in ANY direction at all times, unlike previous games.

So your answer seems to be...

"The combat system is entirely broken in favor of the player, therefore it's better."

Again, DmC air dash isn't quick enough to be used as an evasion technique. The biggest issue with DmC's supposedly "refined" combat is that the majority of evasions moves which didn't have much start up time beforehand now have a TON of start up time, making them effectively useless as tools for dodging.

...and jump is avaliable in any direction in DMC at all times. Just release the lock on key.

According to you Quicksilver is the worst style. A lot of fans felt that DMC4 was inferior to DMC3 because it didn't feature as much. Quicksilver being one of those things. Its your opinion Quicksilver offered nothing, not a fact unfortunately. You do the typical thing here of trying to make DMC3 look bad to make DMC4 look good. Your a fraud, not a DMC fan.

...you're the one who's been criticizing DMC3's lock on system for the past two pages to make DmC's look semi appealing, and now we're back to this silly accusation?

At any rate, please. Find me some of these fans that thought DMC4 was a much worse experience for missing Quicksilver. DMC4 is inferior to DMC3, but not having quicksilver is not the reason why.

Dante's in his early to mid twenties during DmC. You should pay attention... If you don't like swearing then thats not my problem. Either way the camp homo is not Dante, he never was. Yet you accepted him, why?

...and where exactly did I make any claim as to Dante's age?

Besides, who cares how old he is? He's an unlikeable jerk regardless of age, and a bad character. Why did you accept him as Dante?

Here's a hint: The answer to that question is the exact same answer to yours.

Lol. You've resorted to arguments like this because you know you have no way of moving forward unless you are calling yourself more qualifed than Hideaki Itsuno and Capcom Japan.

Only one of us here has said that they're more qualified to make a video game than Capcom. Here's another hint: It's not me.

I can simply say the same thing here. Its not my job to design a game better than DMC4, its Capcom's job and Ninja Theory's job.

You figured it out! Congratulations! For a second there, I was worried.

There you have it. In the same way that it's not your job to design a better DMC game than DMC4, it's not my job to design a better DMC game than DmC. We're all part of the fanbase, who critique the products that are released and give feedback as to how we'd like them improved. That's our role as fans. We're not developers.

Your specific complaint was your own opinion; hence why I reffered to your complaint as a lie, not a fact. You claim to question my literacy age, yet have no basic comprehension skills of your own to understand the difference between an opinion and a fact. Tyical arrogant DMC4 fan.

Please read this back to yourself.

"You claim to question my literacy age."

What the heck does that even mean?

As for the rest of this, your memory span is non-existant, so this isn't worth my time.

You looked in a mirror recently this is exactly what you've done.

If you think I'm lying about what Capcom has said, by all means, call me out on it. I'll be happy to produce a source that proves my claim. Unlike a certain other person around here.

What exactly do you believe I've misrepresented Capcom on?

I've explained the combat as best I can in words, there are videos where words are not enough; there are reviews and the words of Capcom themselves, who confirmed they designed and implemented this combat engine to be the best in the series. Thus its a fact DmC performs better in the words of Capcom Japan, the reviewers and the fans who have told the truth.

...are you genuinely this stupid, or are you just trolling?

Serious question here. I'm starting to think that you're just making this entire thing up as a joke.

Yet Bayonetta has a lot more moves than DMC4; maybe in the region of 600, I don't know I haven't counted.

Assuming you've actually played the game, this should be a fairly easy one for you to answer.

Bayonetta uses a control setup that's almost more similar to fighting games than hack and slashes. A good chunk of those moves are pulled off by holding down buttons, performing circles on the control stick, and responding to on screen prompts. The gameplay of Bayonetta isn't as fast paced as that of Devil May Cry, so it can afford to do that. Point is that directional inputs aren't necessary if pacing isn't as big of a concern, but if it is, then directional inputs are pretty much the only way to go.

DmC doesn't have that luxury if it wants to be a Devil May Cry game.

Actually it dosen't. You see directional attack are exactly that. They are locked by certain directions, and available when the camera perspective allows it. The point of DmC is to allow all those moves to be usuable in any direction at any time. Hence the point of fans who have created videos of greater creativeiy with more variety and experimentation.

...no. Sorry, but no.

Directional attacks are avaliable at any time. You simply press the direction relative to where Dante is facing, and the attack continues as it would have if you were looking at Dante from behind.

Again I can ask you to prove that you can produce combo videos on the same level as the expert players to actually prove it is 'preposterously easy'.

I thought I already answered this point, but I guess that one flew right over your head too.

The question here is whether or not the game itself is preposterously easy, not whether expert players can pull off crazy combos of some sort. A game as bad as Devil May Cry 2 has combo videos out there done by expert players that are quite impressive. That still doesn't make DMC2 a good game. The question is "is the game proposterously easy for your average Devil May Cry player to get through?" If the answer is yes, my argument holds.

Yet again you have avoided that point claiming 'your videos were lost on the Internet'.

Show me where I said this.

Nope, can't. Not everyone lies through their teeth like you.

Your claiming the game is preposterously easy, then prove it.

I literally just linked you a video showing an amateur DmC player pull off an infinite air combo by repeating the same three inputs and doing nothing else.

That's an AMATEUR doing this. Not a highly skilled professional, not some hack and slash guru, a rank amateur, pulling off infinite air combos like it's nothing.

Wrong again, its on PC as well. You are a 'fraud' arn't you.

I literally opened up the game on PC and checked this myself.

I realize you frequently have to lie in order to cover your back, but try to tell a lie that isn't blatantly obvious, ok?

Again I'm not here to dig through three years of interviews and videos to spoon feed you.

Because your claims are just purely made up. You've got nothing in terms of evidence. Literally nothing. You're a liar who's desperate to defend DmC, and the only way you can do so is by putting words in the mouth of Capcom and others.

Notice how I've volunteered to prove any claim I make. I've linked repeated videos proving my claims. If you're determined to simply lie your way through this argument, then this is an exercise in futility.

No you can't play DMC4 like DmC. You see the previous games were built around the button-lock, it would be unplyable without that. A lot of the actions you need are tied to holding the button lock. DmC's elegance is in allowing the player to perform everything without holding a button lock, giving way to more creativity and experimentation. For example the cross-combo manouver which is new to the series.

Then just tap the lock on whenever you need a launcher or something of the like. It's really not that difficult.

It's to get you to finally stop with your silly insistence that DmC Dante is closer to DMC1 Dante.

Whether he is or isn't, the point is that you've blindly accepted a camp homo as Dante? Why?

Please, find any quote of mine, anywhere, where I said Bayonetta's directional attacks were lock on specific. Go on, I'm waiting.

You keep thinking amending your previous words saves you from failure. it dosen't work like that; here is what you originally said:

Taking away directional attacks severly limits the amount of creativity a player has.

Like I said see Bayonetta as proof that a game can have much more moves than DMC4 without directionally locked attacks. You keep trying to change what you've said, but it dosen't change that you were wrong. Changing your words now can't erase that failure.

Neither are "wrong." Your understanding of what the terms "manual" and "automatic" mean is what's wrong, despite the fact that I've explained them half a dozen times already.

Explain this then:

Not Trickster Dash, no.

Yep, its called Angel Dash. I suggest you do some research before making mistakes like that again. Lol. 

As for the Angel Pull/Demon Pull, certainly, those exist, but those aren't evasion tactics.

They can be used for evasion, yes. They have other functions too, yet they can be used to avoid and manouver away from enemies, or prevent enemies from attaking you.

Which I responded to later on showing how a directional attack system is actually far preferable.

According to whom? Yourself? Like I said, you think what you want. Yet why do have to believe you? Besides what you've said about DMC4's control setup was actually wrong anyway.

You see, if your in Gunslinger Style, you have two buttons that function for the guns. Both Square and Circle. This is a waste of a button because those Gunslinger moves can be shifted to the Square button leaving the Circle button free for other things; which is what DmC actually does. Yet you ignore things like that because your not interested in seeing the DMC series move beyond directional locked attacks and directional locked camera perspectives. If this is your own personal view thats fine, yet why do I have to accept it DMC4 fan? I'm waiting.

"The combat system is entirely broken in favor of the player, therefore it's better."

Please refrain from putting your foot into your mouth until you've understood how the mechaniscs of the game actually work.

Again, DmC air dash isn't quick enough to be used as an evasion technique

Actually Sky Star features a longer duration because it doubles as a platforming mehcanic. This is something that was very poorly done in DMC4; hence why the platforming has been greatly improved this time round. Not to mention theres a much faster alteranative to Sky Star part of Aquila's move set to double as an evasion mehcanic. You didn't know that because you have no interest in seeing the truth. You want to cover up everything you can so you can pretend DMC4's outdated combat was worth continuing.

The biggest issue with DmC's supposedly "refined" combat is that the majority of evasions moves which didn't have much start up time beforehand now have a TON of start up time, making them effectively useless as tools for dodging.

Another lie... Surely this would make the game harder to play? Yet you've said the game is easy? Your contradicting yourself DMC4 fan. Either way Capcom know what their doing, the start up time for DmC's moves is perfectly fine. Your trying to pick out things now your other arguments failed. Its not working, I'll never give into you lies. If you believe them, thats your problem, its not for you to tell me that I have to accept your truth.

...and jump is avaliable in any direction in DMC at all times. Just release the lock on key.

This is good, yet releasing the button lock, reverts the lock automatically to Dante's nearest target. It also locks him out of his button lock moves. The point of DmC is to allow all those moves available without being comprimised by the button lock.

...you're the one who's been criticizing DMC3's lock on system for the past two pages to make DmC's look semi appealing, and now we're back to this silly accusation?

Actually Hideaki Itsuno admitted he's wanted to remove the button lock since DMC3. Like I said, a lot of games like Bayonetta or MGR arn't using this clunky style of button lock anymore and it was time for it to go. If you have a problem with that I suggest you take it up with Hideaki Itsuno, its not my problem you believe you know better than him about designing a DMC game.

...and where exactly did I make any claim as to Dante's age?

Do you read your own posts:

Why did you accept a five year old with a propensity for swearing as Dante?

Besides, who cares how old he is? He's an unlikeable jerk regardless of age, and a bad character. Why did you accept him as Dante?

Thats your own opinion. Its not a fact, nor do I have to accept it. If you didn't like DmC Dante thats not my concern, yet forcing your own views on others is unaccptable. Not to mention your defending a character who turned an icon into a camp homosexual.

There you have it. In the same way that it's not your job to design a better DMC game than DMC4, it's not my job to design a better DMC game than DmC. We're all part of the fanbase, who critique the products that are released and give feedback as to how we'd like them improved. That's our role as fans. We're not developers.

There you have it. In the same way that it's not your job to design a better DMC game than DmC, it's not my job to design a better DMC game than DMC4. We're all part of the fanbase, who critique the products that are released and give feedback as to how we'd like them improved. That's our role as fans. We're not developers.

I have never said otherwise. I admitted that I was one of the many fans who critiqued DMC4, leading to Capcom creating a much better game. Its you who is now arrogantely going against Capcom,  claiming that you know better than Hideaki Itsuno on how to design a DmC game.

If you think I'm lying about what Capcom has said, by all means, call me out on it. I'll be happy to produce a source that proves my claim. Unlike a certain other person around here.

What are you reffering to?

I've explained the combat as best I can in words, there are videos where words are not enough; there are reviews and the words of Capcom themselves, who confirmed they designed and implemented this combat engine to be the best in the series. Thus its a fact DmC performs better in the words of Capcom Japan, the reviewers and the fans who have told the truth.

Same again. The truth is that DmC does perform better in many ways than its predecessors. If you choose to ignore that for any reason. Its not my problem. I'm not telling you, you have to believe me. Its not my problem you think DMC4 is a good game. Yet you have no right to tell me that DMC4 is better than DmC because you think so.

Thats the difference between me and you. Thats the difference between a true DMC fan, and whatever the hell you are.

Bayonetta uses a control setup that's almost more similar to fighting games than hack and slashes.

Do you actually know anything about action games? Honestly? Which developers are still using the button lock your reffering to? Metal Gear Rising dosen't, Ninja Gaiden dosen't, God of War dosen't, Bayonetta itself has all her moves performable without restricted directions. Now when you say hack and slashes, who or what are you reffering to? Since I don't think you quite understand the restricted camera perspectives and locked directional attacks your reffering to are a thing of the past. What developers are doing now is creating more fluid, more elegant systems, like DmC and Bayonetta. Thats how the genre moves forward. If you like DMC4 so much, good for you. But you can't claim that because you like something more, we have to accept that all action games follow what you say rather than evolve past the clunky mechanics of past games.

Directional attacks are avaliable at any time. You simply press the direction relative to where Dante is facing, and the attack continues as it would have if you were looking at Dante from behind.

Fail again. Seriosuly play Devil May Cry before saying things like this. Actually direction attacks are restricted to certain directions. For example an enemy could be behind you in DMC4, you could input the action for Stinger and unintentionally Dante could use High Time. Thats also the problem with movement relative to one enemy. Games like Bayonetta, MGR and DmC perform as if the character is relative to ALL enemies, not just one enemy. Hence the greater degree of mobility and flexibility as opposed to something like DMC4. Not to mention direction attacks are not available at any time. Thats because previous DMC games featured locked camara perspectives, meaning certain moves can only be performed with respect to the position of the camera. Thus not all attacks can be performed as easily; making it cumbersome to combo creativity and experimentation. Thats the point of DmC, MGR and Bayonetta; you have a 360 degree camera which allows you to put any move anywhere you want, any time you want. Offering a greater degree of fluidity and flexibility.

The gameplay of Bayonetta isn't as fast paced as that of Devil May Cry, so it can afford to do that. Point is that directional inputs aren't necessary if pacing isn't as big of a concern, but if it is, then directional inputs are pretty much the only way to go.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. OMG. You actually think that. I'm sorry, I just don't know who you think you are. Bayonetta is the best action game ever made. DMC4 is no where near the quality of Bayonetta, even DmC fails to meet the level of Bayonetta. The game is the absolute pinnacle of action games.

Bayonetta can be as fast paced as you want it to be. Thats the point, theres so many weapons and playstyles available. Directional inputs don't allow for the same level of fludity, creativity, or improvisation that something like Bayonetta and DmC allows.

The question is "is the game proposterously easy for your average Devil May Cry player to get through?" If the answer is yes, my argument holds.

Then hold your argument. Show me some of your expert videos at the compitency level of the top players. Surely if an average player can do it, you will have no problem doing it in 5 mins. Nor will you have any problem of reaching the top of the leaderboards on DMD mode? I'm waiting.

I literally just linked you a video showing an amateur DmC player pull off an infinite air combo by repeating the same three inputs and doing nothing else.

Lol. Exactly. Don't you realise your own mistake here. An amateur DMC player repeating the same moves, not doing anything else is not worthy of my attention. Its true DmC features better air mehcanics which Capcom confirmed. Hence why players are able to produce greater aerial creativity and innovation than DMC4. Not to mention DmC features the cross-combo offset manouver which brings a new level of depth to the aerial and ground based combat. Unlike something like DMC4 where you see players spamming the Enemy Step function to stay in the air indefinitely, DmC features more combat options in the air. Hence WHY you can stay in the air longer, and have greater mobility with your aerial manouvers. Not to mention some awesome Demon Air Dodging if the player has a sufficent level of skill.

You're a liar who's desperate to defend DmC, and the only way you can do so is by putting words in the mouth of Capcom and others.

Lol. Thats all you got. Whenever I give you a link, you dismiss it in a way faviourable to DMC4. Theres no point in me spoon feeding you. If you think I'm a liar, I don't care. You came into this thread so you could attack Ninja Theory; you came into this thread for a malicious intention, not I. Believe what you want, i'm not here to educate you or spoon feed you. If you don't like that I believe DmC is better, if you don't like that Capcom designed a better game, if you don't like that the proffessional reviews and many true DMC fans have decided that DmC is better; its not my problem. Create your own thread on how DMC4 is a good game, and see how many of your 'DMC fans' actually come into it. Most of them probably don't even know that the camp homo isn't Dante.

Then just tap the lock on whenever you need a launcher or something of the like. It's really not that difficult.

No, its not difficult, yet it is clunky and cumbersome. What we want is fludity and flexibility. Tapping a button lock on and off dosen't allow for the same level of creativety you have with say an Angel or Demon Trigger. That is evident in DmC where the triggers give Dante the ability to cross-combo offset. Which is not disimmilar to Bayonetta's Dodge Offset. Like I said the lock-on has been transffered in to the L3 trigger, which allows Dante to seemlessly move from enemy to enemy without pause, it allows Dante to cancel into any move seemless, unlike DMC4 which forces you to pause and naviagte a key pad to switch styles or whatever. 

It's still got directional attacks, relative focus, and movement based on the position of the enemy. That's how.

Like I said Bayonetta is never confined to relative movement to one enemy, even with the button lock. I suggest you go and play Bayonetta before talking about things you don't know about. She retains free flow movement at all times, like DmC and MGR. You still haven't explained to me how it is if a camera pans in the direction of an enemy, that confines Bayonetta's movements to that said enemy? Unless your admitting you failed on this point here? I'm waiting?

You keep thinking amending your previous words saves you from failure. it dosen't work like that; here is what you originally said:

Taking away directional attacks severly limits the amount of creativity a player has.

Like I said see Bayonetta as proof that a game can have much more moves than DMC4 without directionally locked attacks. You keep trying to change what you've said, but it dosen't change that you were wrong. Changing your words now can't erase that failure.

I don't need to change anything here.

It's simple: Bayonetta makes up for not having directionally lock on only attacks by moving at a slower pace and so allowing the player to incorporate moves from a variety of different inputs. Bayonetta can avoid to take a limitation on player creativity because it has other places from which the player can draw upon. DmC doesn't have that.

Does that make sense? If not, I can illustrate it in a picture book and have it mailed to your house.

Yep, its called Angel Dash. I suggest you do some research before making mistakes like that again. Lol. 

...you mean this?

That's a freaking fan made mode, dude. If we're incorporating those, then DMC4 Dante has probably three dozen different evasion techniques at his disposal from all the mods you can download for DMC4.

Do you really have to include community based patches in order to make DmC halfway playable?

They can be used for evasion, yes. They have other functions too, yet they can be used to avoid and manouver away from enemies, or prevent enemies from attaking you.

Once again, refer to my earlier point about start up time.

According to whom? Yourself? Like I said, you think what you want. Yet why do have to believe you? Besides what you've said about DMC4's control setup was actually wrong anyway.

Oh, yes, right. Coming from the guy who can't distinguish between a manual and an automatic lock on system. 

You see, if your in Gunslinger Style, you have two buttons that function for the guns. Both Square and Circle. This is a waste of a button because those Gunslinger moves can be shifted to the Square button leaving the Circle button free for other things; which is what DmC actually does.

...you do realize that it's not as if pressing the style button gives you the same attack as the regular button, correct? They're two entirely different things; you couldn't reposition them both to one button.

At any rate, in DmC, you've already dedicated away three of those buttons for launching and dodging, so you wouldn't have that freedom after all. 

And if you don't want to use that button for a different gun related move, you're welcome to switch to another style and use the extra button for that particular style of weaponry (or evasion). 

Please refrain from putting your foot into your mouth until you've understood how the mechaniscs of the game actually work.

...what?

Do you even know what that saying means?

Actually Sky Star features a longer duration because it doubles as a platforming mehcanic.

So, uh, just checking here.

You do realize that responding to a complaint about startup time by claiming that it has a long duration time isn't addressing the complaint at all, right?

Another lie... Surely this would make the game harder to play? Yet you've said the game is easy?

The game is easy, yes, because the general dodge given in the game (i.e. LB and RB) has a ton of invicibility on it, meaning the player doesn't have to do much when it comes to spacing and staying out of harm's way outside of some semblance of correct timing. Also, the weapons (particularly Arbiter) are HORRIBLY unbalanced. The game restricts the player's creativity in ways that, if it kept the same difficulty as the previous Devil May Cry games, would make it quite difficult. However, the dodge and Arbiter are all borderline broken, enemies do far less damaged compared to previous DMC games. Really, the only weapon that got nerfed from DMC4 to DmC is Ebony and Ivory, which are pretty much useless against non flying enemies now.

The biggest challenge DmC presents is having the patience to deal with those color coded enemies towards the end.

At any rate, to answer your question, yes, that particular aspect does make it more difficult. The game makes itself much easier in other ways, however. The difficulty of an entire game doesn't rest on a sole feature.

...and where exactly did I make any claim as to Dante's age?

Do you read your own posts:

Why did you accept a five year old with a propensity for swearing as Dante?

My God you are unbelievable. You REALLY thought I was being serious when I called him a five year old.

Here. I know a few good repair shops where you can get your sarcasm detector repaired.

This is good, yet releasing the button lock, reverts the lock automatically to Dante's nearest target. It also locks him out of his button lock moves. The point of DmC is to allow all those moves available without being comprimised by the button lock.

Which would be a problem if jumping in some direction besides up was ever necessary...but it's not. 

Actually Hideaki Itsuno admitted he's wanted to remove the button lock since DMC3. Like I said, a lot of games like Bayonetta or MGR arn't using this clunky style of button lock anymore and it was time for it to go. If you have a problem with that I suggest you take it up with Hideaki Itsuno, its not my problem you believe you know better than him about designing a DMC game. 

Link, por favor.

Thats your own opinion. Its not a fact, nor do I have to accept it. If you didn't like DmC Dante thats not my concern, yet forcing your own views on others is unaccptable. Not to mention your defending a character who turned an icon into a camp homosexual.

I suppose thinking DmC Dante is whiny is an opinion, sure. But so is believing DMC4 Dante is a "camp hobo." This entire debate is an opinionated one. 

In fact, all you've tried to do this entire debate is force your opinion that DMC4 is terrible on everyone.

I have never said otherwise. I admitted that I was one of the many fans who critiqued DMC4, leading to Capcom creating a much better game. Its you who is now arrogantely going against Capcom,  claiming that you know better than Hideaki Itsuno on how to design a DmC game.

So let me get this straight.

When you voice your complaints about what you think were DMC4's faults, it's "critiquing a bad game."

When I voice my complaints about what I believe DmC's fautls were, it's "arrogantly going against Capcom and Hideaki Itsuno" and claiming I know how to make a better game.

Hold on before you get your sarcasm detector fixed. I've got a repair 2 for the price of 1 coupon. Use it to fix that hypocriscy detector of yours as well.

Unlike a certain other person around here.

What are you reffering to?

Well, gee, let's see. There's two people in this debate, and I'm not referring to myself. I wonder who this mysterious other person could be...

Same again. The truth is that DmC does perform better in many ways than its predecessors. If you choose to ignore that for any reason. Its not my problem. I'm not telling you, you have to believe me. Its not my problem you think DMC4 is a good game. Yet you have no right to tell me that DMC4 is better than DmC because you think so.

So, um, coming in on the topic and saying:

"Lol how come u accepted the camp hobo that is Dante you lying DMC4 fan and if you don't think dMC4 is abysmil yur a lying DMC4 fan"

Isn't trying to force your opinion on someone?

Thats the difference between me and you. Thats the difference between a true DMC fan, and whatever the hell you are.

The difference being a basic grasp of the English language?

Do you actually know anything about action games? Honestly? Which developers are still using the button lock your reffering to? Metal Gear Rising dosen't, Ninja Gaiden dosen't, God of War dosen't, Bayonetta itself has all her moves performable without restricted directions. Now when you say hack and slashes, who or what are you reffering to? Since I don't think you quite understand the restricted camera perspectives and locked directional attacks your reffering to are a thing of the past. What developers are doing now is creating more fluid, more elegant systems, like DmC and Bayonetta. Thats how the genre moves forward. If you like DMC4 so much, good for you. But you can't claim that because you like something more, we have to accept that all action games follow what you say rather than evolve past the clunky mechanics of past games.

So, uh, I was talking about inputs here...and you're going on a tyraid about lock on systems and camera perspectives?

What?

Seriosuly play Devil May Cry before saying things like this. Actually direction attacks are restricted to certain directions. For example an enemy could be behind you in DMC4, you could input the action for Stinger and unintentionally Dante could use High Time.

If you suck at the game and hit the wrong direction, sure. It isn't DMC's fault that someone is bad at the game.

Seriously, just hit the direction that the enemy is in. It's not that difficult. 

And HIGH TIME? You would have to hit the the exact OPPOSITE direction in order to get that. If you've got no concept of spacing, then sure, yeah, I understand how this is difficult. I'm hoping you passed elementary school geometry at least, though.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. OMG. You actually think that. I'm sorry, I just don't know who you think you are. Bayonetta is the best action game ever made. DMC4 is no where near the quality of Bayonetta, even DmC fails to meet the level of Bayonetta. The game is the absolute pinnacle of action games.

Bayonetta can be as fast paced as you want it to be. Thats the point, theres so many weapons and playstyles available. Directional inputs don't allow for the same level of fludity, creativity, or improvisation that something like Bayonetta and DmC allows.

...quick, somebody's fanboy came out.

Better recapture it before it completely obscures all rational thought.

Whoops, too late.

Then hold your argument. Show me some of your expert videos at the compitency level of the top players. Surely if an average player can do it, you will have no problem doing it in 5 mins. Nor will you have any problem of reaching the top of the leaderboards on DMD mode? I'm waiting.

Setting aside the fact that I don't have a capture and upload device, what in the world would pulling off a crazy combo even prove? 

Lol. Exactly. Don't you realise your own mistake here. An amateur DMC player repeating the same moves, not doing anything else is not worthy of my attention.

Well, there it is, everyone. Here I thought action games were meant to pose some challenge in and of themselves, but I guess the only reason they exist is for people to spend hours in Bloody Palace, trying to look cool. No need for actual gameplay, let's just let players beat up on motionless enemies.

At least we've established that DmC's actual missions don't offer anything worthwhile. Maybe next we can move to establish that DmC's gameplay is bad in and of itself.

Its true DmC features better air mehcanics which Capcom confirmed. 

Capcom confirms opinions now?

Also source.

No, its not difficult, yet it is clunky and cumbersome. What we want is fludity and flexibility.

Your definition of fluidity and flexibility is really so sensitive that having to double tap a button is too much for you?

Like I said Bayonetta is never confined to relative movement to one enemy, even with the button lock.

Please re-read the wording of my quote, if you will.

"Relative focus."

Meaning the camera will focus on on the particular enemy you lock on to and keep them as the main object of focus. It doesn't say anything about Bayonetta's movement being confined to that enemy.

It's simple: Bayonetta makes up for not having directionally lock on only attacks by moving at a slower pace and so allowing the player to incorporate moves from a variety of different inputs. Bayonetta can avoid to take a limitation on player creativity because it has other places from which the player can draw upon. DmC doesn't have that.

HAHAHAHAHA. Lol. Listen man, I don't know who your trying to convince here, but we both know your making this up as you go along now:

Bayonetta makes up for not having directionally lock on only attacks by moving at a slower pace and so allowing the player to incorporate moves from a variety of different inputs

Bayonetta does not move at a slower pace (LOL). In fact you've accidently put your foot into your mouth yet again. Since Bayonetta DOES have directionally locked attacks. The player has the option of performing ALL those directionally locked attacks without holding the button lock. Which actually allows the gameplay to flow at a faster pace, since you are never locked to directions to perform any attack.

Based on your statement your saying that Bayonetta can't incoperporate directionally locked attacks because it moves at a slower pace. Yet you didn't know that Bayonetta does have all those directionally locked attacks available alternatively. So how then can Bayonetta move at a slower pace if all those directionally locked attacks actually exist unlike what you originally thought?

Here comes the ammendment, where you change what you've said into something else to cover up for how you were just exposed as a contradictory liar.

That's a freaking fan made mode, dude. If we're incorporating those, then DMC4 Dante has probably three dozen different evasion techniques at his disposal from all the mods you can download for DMC4.

Lol. Do you read video descriptions? Like I said you would know that Angel Dash is a move in the game if you spent any time learning the combat instead of lying about it. Angel Dash exists in the PS3/360 versions of the game, which you can't mod. I suggest you look at videos of those if you don't believe me, or look at the moves list. Its not for me to spoon feed incompitent DMC4 fans. Haha.

Oh, yes, right. Coming from the guy who can't distinguish between a manual and an automatic lock on system.

Care to explain this:

How are you MANUALLY selecting yout target if the AI picks a target that it thinks you want to attack?

How are you MANUALLY selecting yout target if you cycle through said targets until you reach the one you want?

Like I said comparatively DmC allows you to manually select your targets, yet you haven't explained to me how that is automatic. Do you know why that is? Because you can't, theres nothing you can say to change cold hard facts. Thats why you keep avoiding your own idiotic words.

This is exacatly what I was saying before, whenever you realise you were wrong you try to ammend something to cover up for DMC4. These points arn't going away, I will keep reposting and reposting them until you explain how an automatic system can be manual. In your own words you've described an automatic system, not a manual one. Yet you keep ignoring this point because you know I was right the whole time.

You do realize that responding to a complaint about startup time by claiming that it has a long duration time isn't addressing the complaint at all, right?

I did address it. Yet you ignored that yet again. Sky Star features a longer duration (yet you can cut that short for combat purposes) because it doubles as a platforming mechanic; platforming in DMC4 was utter attrocious, so thats why the platforming is far better this time. Thanks in part to the camera, not just the platforming manouvers. Not to mention DmC actually features a faster move than Sky Star called Caliber. Yet you didn't know about that, because clearly you don't know much about the Devil May Cry games.

The game restricts the player's creativity in ways that, if it kept the same difficulty as the previous Devil May Cry games, would make it quite difficult.

Then prove it. If the game is preposterously easy you will have no problem showing me your DMD videos and your high scores on the DMD leaderboard. Whats stopping you from proving me wrong with actions where words have failed you previously?

You REALLY thought I was being serious when I called him a five year old.

You've contradicted yourself again:

...and where exactly did I make any claim as to Dante's age?

No one said you weren't being sarcastic, yet you forgot that you posted that comment in the first place. I made a point to remind you of it since you have a limited memory span.

Which would be a problem if jumping in some direction besides up was ever necessary...but it's not.

Lol. HAHAHA. Seriously is that all you can say. You've done the same thing yet again. You said the same thing about Quicksilver being uncessary. You need to understand something; just because you can't find a way to creatively incoperate combat mechanics, it dosen't mean others can't. For example full free flow movement in all directions at all times is something a lot of players can use to their advanged, as opposed to you who can't seem to find a creative way of incoperating Quicksilver:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riwyC2h0fpc

Yet true DMC fans are proving wrong every time they play DmC. That also shows the advantage of having a longer mobility distance with Sky Star, something that is compensated for with the speed of Caliber.

Link, por favor.

Believe me, don't believe me. I don't particularly care. Hideaki Itsuno was the supervising director of the game, he designed the game along with Capcom Japan. If they wanted the clunky button lock in there they would have put it in. They didn't want it, just like Platinum Games didn't want it for MGR, or why Ninja Gaiden has never had it. Either all those expert programmers and game designers are wrong or you are. I wonder who I'm going to side with... Not.

Link, por favor:

You've contradicted yourself:

The difference being a basic grasp of the English language?

Sometimes grammar mistakes happen on the Internet. Yet your the arrogant individual who calls somone out on grammar mistakes, then fails miserabily at his own. Its embarassing, yet I suppose so was the camp homo.

But so is believing DMC4 Dante is a "camp hobo." This entire debate is an opinionated one.

No, learn to read properly. I said 'camp homo'. Homo as in homosexual... I'm so glad you asked. You see:

Red cowboy boots are a form of attire commenly assoicated with the homosexual community, and alonside with camp behaviour. Then you have this:

DMC4 Donte making homoerotic poses. Hence the term 'camp homo'. To avoid confusion with the name Dante. Since this character is certainly not DMC1 Dante, as confirmed by Hideki Kamiya himself. Not to mention DMC1 Dante would never wear red cowboy boots, nor does he have westernised facial features as the camp homo does.

When you voice your complaints about what you think were DMC4's faults, it's "critiquing a bad game."

I'm actually glad you mentioned that point. You see DmC is not Devil May Cry, its Devil may Cry. A reboot that takes place in a seperate continunity. Thus the way we quantify Devil May Cry in DmC is different in the way we quantify Devil May Cry in DMC4. Thats because DMC4 HAS Devil May Cry on the box. Its supposed to take place in the continuity of the first game. Yet it is inferior to the previous game in the series in many ways, and fails to move the series into new teritory. DmC on the other hand fails to be Devil May Cry 1; yet its not supposed to be. DMC4 is supposed to be a sequel to DMC1, yet it fails completely to reproduce the quality of the that game or even the other two DMC games. Yes I'm also reffering to DMC2 which featured a better story and characters than DMC4, just awful combat though.

Better recapture it before it completely obscures all rational thought.

Actually Bayonetta is the highest reviewed Japanese action game made. God of War has higher reviews, yet its no where near the quality of Bayonetta. Neither is the Twilight game with the camp homo.

Setting aside the fact that I don't have a capture and upload device, what in the world would pulling off a crazy combo even prove?

Then why not some DMD or Hell and Hell leaderboard scores? A player of 'your skill' should have no problem proving that you can top that leaderboard.

No need for actual gameplay, let's just let players beat up on motionless enemies.

Well here it is everyone, the admiision that DMC4 IS inferior. All the videos you've linked to are players non-stop attacking motionless enemy's (singular). There you go, either now your a contradictory liar or your admiiting DMC4 was in fact garbage (which we all know). Which is it DMC4 fan?

At least we've established that DmC's actual missions don't offer anything worthwhile.

In what way are DMC4's boring missions better than DmC's? Not to mention DMC4 is half a game, the second half being a back track of the first half. I suppose your right then, DMC4 was indeed don't offer anything worthwhile what so ever. There it is everyone.

Its true DmC features better air mehcanics which Capcom confirmed.

Again, I'm not here to dig through years of interviews and previews to spoon feed you. If you don't believe me, don't believe me. Continue to play the camp homo game and live in ignorance. Just point out the part where thats my problem?

Your definition of fluidity and flexibility is really so sensitive that having to double tap a button is too much for you?

Lol. You really don't read your own comments do you:

At any rate, it's freaking taking your finger off a button. That takes literally less than a hundredth of a second.

Finally you admit that DMC4 was automatic. You see in that time you take your finger off a button, in that 'hundredth of a second'. Its not actually a 'hundreth of a second' by the way, its much longer; hence why there was a lag for certain manouvers like the Evade in DMC4. In that fraction of a second, you the player are at the mercy of the AI. That fraction of a second is determined by the AI, not the player. Hence thus in that time you the player are no longer in control. Thats why games like DMC, MGR and Bayonetta allow for much more fluidity and felxibity. Becuase their lock ons are instintaneous. You never loose control of what your targeting, unless you manually set yourself into neutral. Not to mention DmC features no slow down unlike DMC4's radidus restricted movement.

In other words, worst comes to worst, you can play DMC4 like you do DmC (which should apparently be much better, right?)

No you can't play DMC4 like DmC. You see the previous games were built around the button-lock, it would be unplyable without that. A lot of the actions you need are tied to holding the button lock. DmC's elegance is in allowing the player to perform everything without holding a button lock, giving way to more creativity and experimentation. For example the cross-combo manouver which is new to the series.

I literally just linked you a video showing an amateur DmC player pull off an infinite air combo by repeating the same three inputs and doing nothing else.

Lol. Exactly. Don't you realise your own mistake here. An amateur DMC player repeating the same moves, not doing anything else is not worthy of my attention. Its true DmC features better air mehcanics which Capcom confirmed. Hence why players are able to produce greater aerial creativity and innovation than DMC4. Not to mention DmC features the cross-combo offset manouver which brings a new level of depth to the aerial and ground based combat. Unlike something like DMC4 where you see players spamming the Enemy Step function to stay in the air indefinitely, DmC features more combat options in the air. Hence WHY you can stay in the air longer, and have greater mobility with your aerial manouvers. Not to mention some awesome Demon Air Dodging if the player has a sufficent level of skill.

You're a liar who's desperate to defend DmC, and the only way you can do so is by putting words in the mouth of Capcom and others.

Lol. Thats all you got. Whenever I give you a link, you dismiss it in a way faviourable to DMC4. Theres no point in me spoon feeding you. If you think I'm a liar, I don't care. You came into this thread so you could attack Ninja Theory; you came into this thread for a malicious intention, not I. Believe what you want, i'm not here to educate you or spoon feed you. If you don't like that I believe DmC is better, if you don't like that Capcom designed a better game, if you don't like that the proffessional reviews and many true DMC fans have decided that DmC is better; its not my problem. Create your own thread on how DMC4 is a good game, and see how many of your 'DMC fans' actually come into it. Most of them probably don't even know that the camp homo isn't Dante.

There you have it. In the same way that it's not your job to design a better DMC game than DMC4, it's not my job to design a better DMC game than DmC. We're all part of the fanbase, who critique the products that are released and give feedback as to how we'd like them improved. That's our role as fans. We're not developers.

There you have it. In the same way that it's not your job to design a better DMC game than DmC, it's not my job to design a better DMC game than DMC4. We're all part of the fanbase, who critique the products that are released and give feedback as to how we'd like them improved. That's our role as fans. We're not developers.

I have never said otherwise. I admitted that I was one of the many fans who critiqued DMC4, leading to Capcom creating a much better game. Its you who is now arrogantely going against Capcom,  claiming that you know better than Hideaki Itsuno on how to design a DmC game.

Bayonetta uses a control setup that's almost more similar to fighting games than hack and slashes.

Do you actually know anything about action games? Honestly? Which developers are still using the button lock your reffering to? Metal Gear Rising dosen't, Ninja Gaiden dosen't, God of War dosen't, Bayonetta itself has all her moves performable without restricted directions. Now when you say hack and slashes, who or what are you reffering to? Since I don't think you quite understand the restricted camera perspectives and locked directional attacks your reffering to are a thing of the past. What developers are doing now is creating more fluid, more elegant systems, like DmC and Bayonetta. Thats how the genre moves forward. If you like DMC4 so much, good for you. But you can't claim that because you like something more, we have to accept that all action games follow what you say rather than evolve past the clunky mechanics of past games.

Meaning the camera will focus on on the particular enemy you lock on to and keep them as the main object of focus. It doesn't say anything about Bayonetta's movement being confined to that enemy.

This is what you originally said:

It's still got directional attacks, relative focus, and movement based on the position of the enemy. That's how.

Your exact words were relative movement based on the position of the enemy. This is not the first time you actually said that. Again like I said, now what your saying is it doesn't say anything about Bayonetta's movement confined to that enemy. This is the word for word proof you have contradicted yourself yet again. You have tried to change what you've said, yet it cannot be changed. I will keep reposting and reposting this comment, as I will with your other failures. Thats because you've found a true DMC fan waiting in the fold, and you camp homo fan, you have been utterly exposed.

Since Bayonetta DOES have directionally locked attacks.

Actually all of Bayonetta's moves are performable without the button lock.

And yet I'm the one with the foot in my mouth? 

Since you once again have no idea of what any action genre terminology means, let me spell this out for you. A directionally locked attack is an attack that is performed (and ONLY performed) by locking on to an enemy and moving the stick in the direction of that enemy. The closest Bayonetta comes to a directionally locked attack is a directional attack.

In other words, Bayonetta's attacks that can be performed with or without a lock on aren't directionally locked attacks.

If it turns out that Bayonetta has some attacks that are directionally locked (as in only work when the lock on button is held, and not in any other way), then I guess I didn't get far enough into experimenting with the combat to find those moves. And if that's the case, then I fully support the idea of having optional directional attacks, or heck, entirely alternate control schemes, allowing the combat to go at whatever speed the player wants.

But DmC doesn't have that. It's stuck in automatic lock on mode for the entirety of the experience.

Lol. Do you read video descriptions? Like I said you would know that Angel Dash is a move in the game if you spent any time learning the combat instead of lying about it. Angel Dash exists in the PS3/360 versions of the game, which you can't mod. I suggest you look at videos of those if you don't believe me, or look at the moves list. Its not for me to spoon feed incompitent DMC4 fans. Haha.

Are you talking about Angel Evade, or Angel Dash? Because those two things are very different.

Care to explain this:

How are you MANUALLY selecting yout target if the AI picks a target that it thinks you want to attack?

How are you MANUALLY selecting yout target if you cycle through said targets until you reach the one you want?

Because you're an idiot who doesn't read explanations. That's how.

I've gone over this a full half dozen times already. If those words are too big for you to understand, I'll try and condense it into a picture book that explains how.

Like I said comparatively DmC allows you to manually select your targets, yet you haven't explained to me how that is automatic. Do you know why that is? Because you can't, theres nothing you can say to change cold hard facts. Thats why you keep avoiding your own idiotic words.

Does DmC's lock on depend on something besides relative position and movement? No. Therefore, it is automatic.

Does DMC4's lock on depend on something besides relative position and movement? Yes. Therefore, it is manual.

That is the only thing that matters. If you can't process this, I can reference you to a few elementary schools.

Yet you keep ignoring this point because you know I was right the whole time.

Yes, exactly. You are right, Capcom, Ninja Theory, the DMC fanbase, the entire action game community, and everyone else is wrong. Precisely.

I did address it. Yet you ignored that yet again. Sky Star features a longer duration (yet you can cut that short for combat purposes) because it doubles as a platforming mechanic

That doesn't do ANYTHING for start up time. The start up time is the EXACT SAME regardless of the movement's duration.

Do you know what start up time is?

Then prove it. If the game is preposterously easy you will have no problem showing me your DMD videos and your high scores on the DMD leaderboard. Whats stopping you from proving me wrong with actions where words have failed you previously?

Because, as I've explained before, this won't prove anything.

I'm not arguing here that the game's most complex combos are simple to pull off. I'm arguing that the skill level required to beat the game is incredibly low as opposed to previous titles.

If you want proof of that, look up a let's play on Youtube or something.

No one said you weren't being sarcastic, yet you forgot that you posted that comment in the first place. I made a point to remind you of it since you have a limited memory span.

You're making fun of my memory span? Oh, you really are too much.

I did remember that, but, you apparently have no sense of sarcasm. That isn't a claim about his age, that's a claim about maturity. If I call you a five year old, that isn't me making a claim as to your age. It's say you have the maturity (or in this case, the reading comprehension) of a five year old.

Lol. HAHAHA. Seriously is that all you can say. You've done the same thing yet again. You said the same thing about Quicksilver being uncessary. You need to understand something; just because you can't find a way to creatively incoperate combat mechanics, it dosen't mean others can't.

Then by all means, show me an example of a combo video involving creative uses of Quicksilver.

Yet true DMC fans are proving wrong every time they play DmC. That also shows the advantage of having a longer mobility distance with Sky Star, something that is compensated for with the speed of Caliber.

Like I said, I'm sure people who put enough time and effort into the game can do amazing things with DmC. People can also do amazing things with DMC2. Does that make it a good game as well?

The point is that DmC's combat, on a surface level, is incredibly broken, and people have to find ways to work around that. That isn't a good action game.

Believe me, don't believe me. I don't particularly care. Hideaki Itsuno was the supervising director of the game, he designed the game along with Capcom Japan. If they wanted the clunky button lock in there they would have put it in. They didn't want it, just like Platinum Games didn't want it for MGR, or why Ninja Gaiden has never had it. Either all those expert programmers and game designers are wrong or you are. I wonder who I'm going to side with... Not.

Or, you know, maybe he was testing a game without a lock on button to see how it would work. Ever think about that?

No? I guess not.

Sometimes grammar mistakes happen on the Internet. Yet your the arrogant individual who calls somone out on grammar mistakes, then fails miserabily at his own. Its embarassing, yet I suppose so was the camp homo.

...and my error was where? Substituting a Spanish word in? You really thought that was unintentional?

And yeah, sure, I can understand, grammar mistakes do happen on the internet. Yours happen with such frequency that I'm beginning to wonder whether you even finished first grade.

DMC4 Donte making homoerotic poses. Hence the term 'camp homo'. To avoid confusion with the name Dante. Since this character is certainly not DMC1 Dante, as confirmed by Hideki Kamiya himself. Not to mention DMC1 Dante would never wear red cowboy boots, nor does he have westernised facial features as the camp homo does.

Or, you know, maybe his outfit is red, and he wanted boots to go along with it.

And besides, you're criticizing the way Dante looks? Really? You're as bad as those DmC fans who claim that the only reason we don't like DmC is because Dante underwent an outfit change.

I'm actually glad you mentioned that point. You see DmC is not Devil May Cry, its Devil may Cry. A reboot that takes place in a seperate continunity. Thus the way we quantify Devil May Cry in DmC is different in the way we quantify Devil May Cry in DMC4. Thats because DMC4 HAS Devil May Cry on the box. Its supposed to take place in the continuity of the first game. Yet it is inferior to the previous game in the series in many ways, and fails to move the series into new teritory. DmC on the other hand fails to be Devil May Cry 1; yet its not supposed to be. DMC4 is supposed to be a sequel to DMC1, yet it fails completely to reproduce the quality of the that game or even the other two DMC games. Yes I'm also reffering to DMC2 which featured a better story and characters than DMC4, just awful combat though.

...and the point of this rant is?

"DmC" is still a "DMC" game, or, at the very least, it's trying to be. From the perspective of the Devil May Cry series, on a purely gameplay level (ignoring the insipid story and characters that they try to pass off as a "gritty" tale), it's inferior to every game in the series besides DMC2.

Actually Bayonetta is the highest reviewed Japanese action game made. God of War has higher reviews, yet its no where near the quality of Bayonetta. Neither is the Twilight game with the camp homo.

Wrong once more.

Bayonetta's Metacritic

Devil May Cry's Metacritic

Well here it is everyone, the admiision that DMC4 IS inferior. All the videos you've linked to are players non-stop attacking motionless enemy's (singular). There you go, either now your a contradictory liar or your admiiting DMC4 was in fact garbage (which we all know). Which is it DMC4 fan?

Let me introduce you to something called a "False Dilemma." Google it, and come back here.

What you asked for in the videos I linked was proof that the style system didn't slow combat down. There is proof, right there, that the style system doesn't slow combat down.

When judging the quality of the game as a WHOLE, and not just styles, you have to actually go through the ENTIRE game.

In what way are DMC4's boring missions better than DmC's? Not to mention DMC4 is half a game, the second half being a back track of the first half. I suppose your right then, DMC4 was indeed don't offer anything worthwhile what so ever. There it is everyone.

Well, you know, halfway decent boss fights, enemies that pose some semblance of threat, a non broken style meter, a story that doesn't bounce around like it's Uncharted, and tolerable voice acting.

Again, I'm not here to dig through years of interviews and previews to spoon feed you. If you don't believe me, don't believe me. Continue to play the camp homo game and live in ignorance. Just point out the part where thats my problem?

Because you've spent this entire time trying to convince me with this ridiculous crusade for DmC?

Finally you admit that DMC4 was automatic.

No?

hence why there was a lag for certain manouvers like the Evade in DMC4.

...there is no lag on evade.

Seriously, I know you're desperate to "win" this, but refrain from making things up, ok?

And I believe you just copy/pasta'd your answers to my last post for the entire ending of your most recent post...

Finals Week time. Be back around Christmas or so with cookies.

A directionally locked attack is an attack that is performed (and ONLY performed) by locking on to an enemy and moving the stick in the direction of that enemy. The closest Bayonetta comes to a directionally locked attack is a directional attack.

Your original words:

Bayonetta makes up for not having directionally lock on only attacks by moving at a slower pace and so allowing the player to incorporate moves from a variety of different inputs

This is what I will say again in response to that:

Bayonetta does not move at a slower pace (LOL). In fact you've accidently put your foot into your mouth yet again. Since Bayonetta DOES have directionally locked attacks. The player has the option of performing ALL those directionally locked attacks without holding the button lock. Which actually allows the gameplay to flow at a faster pace, since you are never locked to directions to perform any attack.

Based on your statement your saying that Bayonetta can't incoperporate directionally locked attacks because it moves at a slower pace. Yet you didn't know that Bayonetta does have all those directionally locked attacks available alternatively. So how then can Bayonetta move at a slower pace if all those directionally locked attacks actually exist unlike what you originally thought?

You've failed. Bayonetta did have directional locked attacks which you didn't know about. Amending your words now is too late. You've been caught. 

But DmC doesn't have that. It's stuck in automatic lock on mode for the entirety of the experience.

Again how is a system that allows you to manually lock to your target automatic? I'm waiting?

Are you talking about Angel Evade, or Angel Dash? Because those two things are very different.

Lol. HAHAHA. When you didn't know about the move, you claim their different moves. Angel Evade is the equilivant of Trickster Dash. That player modded it for whatever reason. You don't like that you were exposd not my problem.

Because you're an idiot who doesn't read explanations. That's how:

Care to explain this:

How are you MANUALLY selecting yout target if the AI picks a target that it thinks you want to attack?

How are you MANUALLY selecting yout target if you cycle through said targets until you reach the one you want?

Explain to me how an automatic system can be manual, which you exposed in your own words. I'm waiting?

I've gone over this a full half dozen times already. If those words are too big for you to understand, I'll try and condense it into a picture book that explains how.

Then you admit you had to amend your words because you were incorrect the first time? There you have it everyone, the DMC4 fan admits he was wrong.

Does DmC's lock on depend on something besides relative position and movement? No. Therefore, it is automatic.

HAHAHAH. DmC's lock on in controlled entirely by the player, you keep saying relative position. Yet how does realive position determine whether a system is automatic or manual?

Does DMC4's lock on depend on something besides relative position and movement? Yes. Therefore, it is manual.

This isn't an explaination. This is an I don't know response. You keep saying the same thing. You keep saying lock on depend on something besides. Be specific, what is this 'imaginary' besides you are talking about? You simply cannot answer this question, because you have no idea what your talking about. Thats why you never explain yourself. You know DMC4 is automatic and you know DmC is manual. Nothing you say can change that, because Capcom Japan and Ninja Theory made the game that way. You cannot change reality DMC4 fan.

I'm not arguing here that the game's most complex combos are simple to pull off. I'm arguing that the skill level required to beat the game is incredibly low as opposed to previous titles.

Then prove it, show me the game is incredibly easy to beat. Show me your DMD leaderboard scores. We both know you have no chance of finishing the game, because its not easy what so ever on the upper difficulties. If it was you would prove it no problem.

That doesn't do ANYTHING for start up time. The start up time is the EXACT SAME regardless of the movement's duration.

You keep changing the discussion because you lost on the previous point, since you didn't know about Caliber. The start up time for most moves are about the same duration as DMC4, some moves are faster (see Drive) some moves are slower. DmC's moves are of course a cut above because Ninja Theory are animation experts.

Like I said, I'm sure people who put enough time and effort into the game can do amazing things with DmC. People can also do amazing things with DMC2. Does that make it a good game as well?

Don't know about DMC2. Yet your argument works both ways; people can do some interesting things with DMC4. Is it a good game? Well no, not really, its terrible in nearly every respect. Especially with the camp homo butchering an icon. Either way, its not for you to decide what someone else considers a good game or not. According to Capcom this is the best DMC game they designed. If you have an opinion with that, tell it to HIdeaki Itsuno. Don't make it my problem your calling Hideaki Itusno incompitent or a liar. That is simply not my problem.

The point is that DmC's combat, on a surface level, is incredibly broken, and people have to find ways to work around that. That isn't a good action game.

Your opinion is not a fact. If you think DmC's combat is broken, thats your own opinion. Don't tell me I have to get in line with someone because they wanted DMC4 to continue. Its not my problem you liked the camp homo, nor is it my problem Capcom consider this their most compitent combat engine to date. If you can't accept that, why do I have to believe you?

Or, you know, maybe he was testing a game without a lock on button to see how it would work. Ever think about that?

Maybe, maybe not. Capcom haven't confirmed that. Unfortunatley I don't go in for consipiracy theories. Nor do I take well to DMC4 fans telling me I have to accept theres. Besides we've established at this point DmC contains the series first manual lock on compared to the automatic lock on of previous games. You even said that yourself, yet had to amend your words when you failed agian.

...and my error was where? Substituting a Spanish word in? You really thought that was unintentional?

You made a comment about English literacy, yet you use Spanish words. Way to contradict and put your foot in your mouth again.

And yeah, sure, I can understand, grammar mistakes do happen on the internet. Yours happen with such frequency that I'm beginning to wonder whether you even finished first grade.

HAHAH. There you go again, you make grammar mistakes so you have to amend your words to contain your own shortcommings. Besides I don't care about grammar mistakes, I'm interested in facts, since you have no facts, you resort to grammar mistakes... The ultimate takedown for someone who keeps putting their foot in their mouth.

And besides, you're criticizing the way Dante looks? Really? You're as bad as those DmC fans who claim that the only reason we don't like DmC is because Dante underwent an outfit change.

What can I say, I'm a DMC1 fan, I don't accept camp homo imposters. Not to mention DMC1 Dante never wore red cowboy boots, because its not Dante to dress homosexually. You seem to think it was.

"DmC" is still a "DMC" game, or, at the very least, it's trying to be.

Its true DmC exceeds the combat of the previous games, according to the fans, the developers and the reviewers. Like I said you got a problem with that, then take it up with Hideaki Itusno and tell him you can do his job better. I'm waiting...

Not to mention DMC4 can easily be considered the worst game in the series, alongside DMC2. If you don't like the opinons of DMC1 fans, why is that my problem?

Well, you know, halfway decent boss fights, enemies that pose some semblance of threat, a non broken style meter, a story that doesn't bounce around like it's Uncharted, and tolerable voice acting.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAH. DMC4 features  the worst story in the series history (which was inspired by Hollywood movies), and the worst characters in the series history, with absolutely attrocious voice acting. Like I said when you finish the game on DMD mode and prove it then I'll take you seriously. Until then I suggest you get back to playing DMC4 and let the true fans enjoy DmC... You can do that though can you? You can't accept that many fans didn't want that camp homo shit to continue, and that many of us consider DmC a great improvement on its predecessor, which was awful in every way except one.

Because you've spent this entire time trying to convince me with this ridiculous crusade for DmC?

Convince you about what? DmC is better in many ways, I've explained things about the manual lock on and the performance of the combat. You keep trying to evade those points, like you evaded everything I previously said. No one said you have to agree with that, you can respectfully disagree. Yet you came into this thread for malicious reasons. You came into this thread because you wanted to take your anger out on true DMC fans. You did those things because your are a DMC4 fan, you are not a DMC fan. Unfortunately you found a true DMC fan waiting in the fold. If your not happy with DmC, why can't anyone else prefer it to DMC4? Your insistant to try and control what people think of DMC4 is what has started this. Your crusade for a game that wasn't a true sequel to DMC1 anyway, because you can't take that people didn't want it to continue.

No need for actual gameplay, let's just let players beat up on motionless enemies.

Well here it is everyone, the admiision that DMC4 IS inferior. All the videos you've linked to are players non-stop attacking motionless enemy's (singular). There you go, either now your a contradictory liar or your admiiting DMC4 was in fact garbage (which we all know). Which is it DMC4 fan?

At least we've established that DmC's actual missions don't offer anything worthwhile.

In what way are DMC4's boring missions better than DmC's? Not to mention DMC4 is half a game, the second half being a back track of the first half. I suppose your right then, DMC4 was indeed don't offer anything worthwhile what so ever. There it is everyone.

Your definition of fluidity and flexibility is really so sensitive that having to double tap a button is too much for you?

Lol. You really don't read your own comments do you:

At any rate, it's freaking taking your finger off a button. That takes literally less than a hundredth of a second.

Finally you admit that DMC4 was automatic. You see in that time you take your finger off a button, in that 'hundredth of a second'. Its not actually a 'hundreth of a second' by the way, its much longer; hence why there was a lag for certain manouvers like the Evade in DMC4. In that fraction of a second, you the player are at the mercy of the AI. That fraction of a second is determined by the AI, not the player. Hence thus in that time you the player are no longer in control. Thats why games like DMC, MGR and Bayonetta allow for much more fluidity and felxibity. Becuase their lock ons are instintaneous. You never loose control of what your targeting, unless you manually set yourself into neutral. Not to mention DmC features no slow down unlike DMC4's radidus restricted movement.

In other words, worst comes to worst, you can play DMC4 like you do DmC (which should apparently be much better, right?)

No you can't play DMC4 like DmC. You see the previous games were built around the button-lock, it would be unplyable without that. A lot of the actions you need are tied to holding the button lock. DmC's elegance is in allowing the player to perform everything without holding a button lock, giving way to more creativity and experimentation. For example the cross-combo manouver which is new to the series.

I literally just linked you a video showing an amateur DmC player pull off an infinite air combo by repeating the same three inputs and doing nothing else.

Lol. Exactly. Don't you realise your own mistake here. An amateur DMC player repeating the same moves, not doing anything else is not worthy of my attention. Its true DmC features better air mehcanics which Capcom confirmed. Hence why players are able to produce greater aerial creativity and innovation than DMC4. Not to mention DmC features the cross-combo offset manouver which brings a new level of depth to the aerial and ground based combat. Unlike something like DMC4 where you see players spamming the Enemy Step function to stay in the air indefinitely, DmC features more combat options in the air. Hence WHY you can stay in the air longer, and have greater mobility with your aerial manouvers. Not to mention some awesome Demon Air Dodging if the player has a sufficent level of skill. 

There you have it. In the same way that it's not your job to design a better DMC game than DMC4, it's not my job to design a better DMC game than DmC. We're all part of the fanbase, who critique the products that are released and give feedback as to how we'd like them improved. That's our role as fans. We're not developers.

There you have it. In the same way that it's not your job to design a better DMC game than DmC, it's not my job to design a better DMC game than DMC4. We're all part of the fanbase, who critique the products that are released and give feedback as to how we'd like them improved. That's our role as fans. We're not developers.

I have never said otherwise. I admitted that I was one of the many fans who critiqued DMC4, leading to Capcom creating a much better game. Its you who is now arrogantely going against Capcom,  claiming that you know better than Hideaki Itsuno on how to design a DmC game.

Bayonetta uses a control setup that's almost more similar to fighting games than hack and slashes.

Do you actually know anything about action games? Honestly? Which developers are still using the button lock your reffering to? Metal Gear Rising dosen't, Ninja Gaiden dosen't, God of War dosen't, Bayonetta itself has all her moves performable without restricted directions. Now when you say hack and slashes, who or what are you reffering to? Since I don't think you quite understand the restricted camera perspectives and locked directional attacks your reffering to are a thing of the past. What developers are doing now is creating more fluid, more elegant systems, like DmC and Bayonetta. Thats how the genre moves forward. If you like DMC4 so much, good for you. But you can't claim that because you like something more, we have to accept that all action games follow what you say rather than evolve past the clunky mechanics of past games.

Meaning the camera will focus on on the particular enemy you lock on to and keep them as the main object of focus. It doesn't say anything about Bayonetta's movement being confined to that enemy.

This is what you originally said:

It's still got directional attacks, relative focus, and movement based on the position of the enemy. That's how.

Your exact words were relative movement based on the position of the enemy. This is not the first time you actually said that. Again like I said, now what your saying is it doesn't say anything about Bayonetta's movement confined to that enemy. This is the word for word proof you have contradicted yourself yet again. You have tried to change what you've said, yet it cannot be changed. I will keep reposting and reposting this comment, as I will with your other failures. Thats because you've found a true DMC fan waiting in the fold, and you camp homo fan, you have been utterly exposed.

Like I said, prentending that all these points don't exist to hide your failure, simply won't work. You've been wrong about everything I've said here. Thats why you can't counter these points. You've failed. You've failed to take away our rights to prefer DmC to that camp homo Twilight shit you love so much.

Based on your statement your saying that Bayonetta can't incoperporate directionally locked attacks because it moves at a slower pace. Yet you didn't know that Bayonetta does have all those directionally locked attacks available alternatively. So how then can Bayonetta move at a slower pace if all those directionally locked attacks actually exist unlike what you originally thought?

...I said that Bayonetta can't incorporate directionally locked attacks because it moves at a slower pace...where exactly?

My words were that Bayonetta survives without needing directional attacks because it allows for differing ways of inputting commands besides locked on attacks. Which is true. Just look at how quickly the people who move in DMC4 and DMC3 are going, and compare that to the speed of Bayonetta. It's slightly faster. Not a lot faster, but still enough to make a difference.

Or, if you want a good laugh, compare how quickly people move in DMC3 and DMC4 to DmC.

You've failed. Bayonetta did have directional locked attacks which you didn't know about. Amending your words now is too late. You've been caught. 

I literally addressed all of this in the opening of my previous post. Come on man. You've got to start reading these things to actually participate in a debate. You can't just keep ignoring half the post and trying to fudge some response that supposedly nails me on something.

Lol. HAHAHA. When you didn't know about the move, you claim their different moves. Angel Evade is the equilivant of Trickster Dash. That player modded it for whatever reason. You don't like that you were exposd not my problem.

First off, the fact that you can't even remember the name of the game's move is in no way exposing me. 

Secondly, Angel Evade is nothing like Trickster Dash. It's more similar to Trick than anything else.

Explain to me how an automatic system can be manual, which you exposed in your own words. I'm waiting?

"Does DmC's lock on depend on something besides relative position and movement? No. Therefore, it is automatic.

Does DMC4's lock on depend on something besides relative position and movement? Yes. Therefore, it is manual.

That is the only thing that matters. If you can't process this, I can reference you to a few elementary schools."

Then you admit you had to amend your words because you were incorrect the first time? There you have it everyone, the DMC4 fan admits he was wrong.

...I was offering to amend my words because you're a moron, but if that's how you want to read it, I suppose you can believe what you want.

HAHAHAH. DmC's lock on in controlled entirely by the player, you keep saying relative position. Yet how does realive position determine whether a system is automatic or manual?

Oh, good. You are reading some things after all. I was starting to get worried there.

Since you're making such good progress, I'll answer your question. It doesn't. As I've said before, a lock on needs something BESIDES relative position and movement to determine whether it's an automatic or manual lock on system.

Now, ask yourself. Does DmC require some input besides relative position and movement to lock on to an enemy? If the answer is no, that system is automatic. 

There you go. See what you can learn when you actually read?

This isn't an explaination. This is an I don't know response. You keep saying the same thing. You keep saying lock on depend on something besides. Be specific, what is this 'imaginary' besides you are talking about?

It doesn't matter what the something else it has is. Just as long as there is some other input besides relative position and movement, it's a manual lock on system. It could be a button press, it could be a voice command (if it was on some highly advanced Kinect system), it could be anything. Given today's technology, it will almost certainly be pressing a button, but there's no guarantee that it will stay confined to that as technology progresses. All it has to be is some outside input that tells the game to focus in on an enemy.

You simply cannot answer this question, because you have no idea what your talking about.

Well, you certainly seemed to decide that quickly.

Do us all a favor, and let people actually perform the task you're asking them to do before declaing they can't do it, mkay?

You know DMC4 is automatic and you know DmC is manual. Nothing you say can change that, because Capcom Japan and Ninja Theory made the game that way. You cannot change reality DMC4 fan.

Speaking of Capcom and Ninja Theory, and the rest of the Gaming Community let's hear what they have to say about DmC being manual or automatic, shall we?

Ninja Theory's Dom Matthews: "We wanted to build a system in (DmC) that didn't require a manual lock on."

WhatCulture's Barry O Halloran: "Ninja Theory has decided to use an auto lock-on which really annoyed me."

GameRant.com: "There is auto lock on"

GamesRadar.com: "DmC has two dodge buttons, no taunt and no lock-on."

And most of these articles carry positive opinions about DmC, so the "DMC4 fanboy conspiracy" complaint isn't going to fly here, either. 

Unfortunately for you, the entire gaming community is on my side here. DMC4's lock on, regardless of what definition complaints you may have, is considered a manual lock on by the entire world of hack and slashes. Those "professional reviewers" that you were touting so highly earlier? They all consider DmC's lock on automatic. 

You've asked me in the past why you should take my word over gaming journalists. Well, allow me to pose the same question to you. Why should I believe you over the entire gaming community?

Then prove it, show me the game is incredibly easy to beat. Show me your DMD leaderboard scores. We both know you have no chance of finishing the game, because its not easy what so ever on the upper difficulties. If it was you would prove it no problem.

Welp, if all you want is beating the game on the higher difficulties, I can do that no problem. If it goes on sale during the Christmas Steam offerings, I'll consider getting it (I gamefly'd it originally when it came out for consoles) again. Might be fun to tromp through a bad game for some laughs.

If you're seriously not convinced by the video I showed you of an amateur player performing an infinite combo, then this might be worth it just for the sake of finally penetrating your thick head.

You keep changing the discussion because you lost on the previous point, since you didn't know about Caliber. The start up time for most moves are about the same duration as DMC4, some moves are faster (see Drive) some moves are slower. DmC's moves are of course a cut above because Ninja Theory are animation experts.

...first off, I knew about Caliber, and I have no idea where that came from.

Secondly, this discussion was originally ABOUT start up time. You tried to change it to something about how long the move took to complete, and I'm trying to bring us back to the original discussion.

Thirdly...what the absolute heck does animation quality have to do with this debate?

Its true DmC exceeds the combat of the previous games, according to the fans, the developers and the reviewers. 

Oh, I'm glad you brought up the fans. Speaking of fans, let's see what they had to say about these two titles with their wallets?

Looks like DMC4 almost sold 3 million copies...and DmC didn't even hit a million.

Well, guess that settles it. Looks like the fans chose DMC4 after all.

Not to mention DMC4 can easily be considered the worst game in the series, alongside DMC2. If you don't like the opinons of DMC1 fans, why is that my problem?

Because you don't represent the opinion of all DMC1 fans.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAH. DMC4 features  the worst story in the series history (which was inspired by Hollywood movies), and the worst characters in the series history, with absolutely attrocious voice acting.

Oh I agree, DMC4's story isn't good. It's just not as bad as this.

You can do that though can you? You can't accept that many fans didn't want that camp homo shit to continue, and that many of us consider DmC a great improvement on its predecessor, which was awful in every way except one.

The irony in this statement is that you were the one who came onto this thread and yelled at me first.

Your opinion is not a fact. If you think DmC's combat is broken, thats your own opinion. Don't tell me I have to get in line with someone because they wanted DMC4 to continue.

Very well, if you suddenly don't want to debate, that's completely fine. But in return, don't tell me that DMC4's combat is bad.

If you're going to criticize what other people like, then don't get upset when those people criticize what you enjoy.

You came into this thread because you wanted to take your anger out on true DMC fans. You did those things because your are a DMC4 fan

Let's look at my first two posts on this thread.

"Well, at the very least, this means that DmC2 won't happen.

Woo hoo."

and

"Wow, people genuinely still believe that the only reason DmC was disliked was because of a hair change?"

...yep. That's a lot of taking anger out on DmC fans. 

Well here it is everyone, the admiision that DMC4 IS inferior. All the videos you've linked to are players non-stop attacking motionless enemy's (singular). There you go, either now your a contradictory liar or your admiiting DMC4 was in fact garbage (which we all know). Which is it DMC4 fan?

Responded to this earlier, not wasting my time again.

...actually, now that I look at it, I'm pretty sure I responded to the entirety of the rest of your post of this in my most recent and next to most recent posts.

Are you genuinely arguing here or just copy and pasting old topics?

...I said that Bayonetta can't incorporate directionally locked attacks because it moves at a slower pace...where exactly?

You actually said something a bit different, your amending your words now to attempt to cover up you didn't know Bayonetta had directionally locked attacks:

My words were that Bayonetta survives without needing directional attacks because it allows for differing ways of inputting commands besides locked on attacks.

Here is your own words which contradict what you've just said. I think you must have sufferred a recent blow to the head to have such adverse memory problems:

Bayonetta makes up for not having directionally lock on only attacks by moving at a slower pace and so allowing the player to incorporate moves from a variety of different inputs.

Like I said before, I can just keep reposting the same comments now, you can't counter them because you've already contradicted yourself. Everything else at this point is an amendment.

Just look at how quickly the people who move in DMC4 and DMC3 are going, and compare that to the speed of Bayonetta. It's slightly faster. Not a lot faster, but still enough to make a difference.

Its true DMC3, 4 are faster when running on Turbo Mode. Yet your misgiving is about including Turbo Mode at all. DmC and Bayonetta both run at about the same speed when in normal mode. Bayonetta has different weapons like Kuldurusha or Shibura that are just as fast as the weapons in DMC3 or 4. Not to mention DmC and Bayonetta offer deeper gameplay options, which to me is more important than what DMC4 offers in terms of locked gameplay. Your also forgetting that DmC's fan moded Turbo Mode runs much faster than DMC4's Turbo Mode.

Bayonetta does not move at a slower pace (LOL). In fact you've accidently put your foot into your mouth yet again. Since Bayonetta DOES have directionally locked attacks. The player has the option of performing ALL those directionally locked attacks without holding the button lock. Which actually allows the gameplay to flow at a faster pace, since you are never locked to directions to perform any attack.

Based on your statement your saying that Bayonetta can't incoperporate directionally locked attacks because it moves at a slower pace. Yet you didn't know that Bayonetta does have all those directionally locked attacks available alternatively. So how then can Bayonetta move at a slower pace if all those directionally locked attacks actually exist unlike what you originally thought 

I literally addressed all of this in the opening of my previous post. Come on man. You've got to start reading these things to actually participate in a debate.

Again your word for word comment, where you deny Bayonetta has direcitonally locked attacks. I think you need to start reading your own posts DMC4 fan:

Bayonetta makes up for NOT having directionally lock on only attacks by moving at a slower pace and so allowing the player to incorporate moves from a variety of different inputs.

Who are you trying to fool here DMC4 fan? You've been caught, theres nothing more to this.

Secondly, Angel Evade is nothing like Trickster Dash. It's more similar to Trick than anything else.

Your original words:

That's a freaking fan made mode, dude. If we're incorporating those, then DMC4 Dante has probably three dozen different evasion techniques at his disposal from all the mods you can download for DMC4.

You originally claimed Angel Dash was a fan made mod. Nothing you can do will change this now, you've already been caught.

 Does DmC's lock on depend on something besides relative position and movement? No. Therefore, it is automatic.

Does DMC4's lock on depend on something besides relative position and movement? Yes. Therefore, it is manual.

That is the only thing that matters. If you can't process this, I can reference you to a few elementary schools.

I actually don't understand what you've said. DmC's lock on is controlled by the player. Yes it depends entirely on how the player moves with respect to an enemy. The player manually controlling this input direction at all times. Now explain to me how is this automatic?

DMC4's lock on does depend on something besides the player's position and movement. That 'something else' is of course the games AI, which as you already admitted locks onto the nearest enemy and allocates the next enemy automatically. Again explain to me how is this a manually controlled lock on when the user only has partial control of the system. The automatic AI does the rest. As you already admitted:

How are you MANUALLY selecting yout target if the AI picks a target that it thinks you want to attack?

How are you MANUALLY selecting yout target if you cycle through said targets until you reach the one you want?

In your own words you admitted that DMC4's lock on was automatic, in contrast to DmC's which is entirely manual for the first time in the series. Like I said before you keep amending your own points that previously discredited you because you know you were wrong. What your saying now is that you were wrong before when you said DMC4 was automatic.Everything your saying now is based on this lie:

As I've said before, a lock on needs something BESIDES relative position and movement to determine whether it's an automatic or manual lock on system.

A manual or automatic system is determined by the existing rules of the system. The existing rules of DmC make it a manually operated system, as opposed to DMC4 which is automatic. Your creating this 'something else' rule as something that exists outside of the exisiting system. You NEED to do that because the current rules of the system prevent you from being right.

Now explain to me DMC4 scum, why is DmC an automatic system when the player is in complete control of the lock on? Why is DMC4 an manual system when the system is mostly automatic? I'm waiting!

All it has to be is some outside input that tells the game to focus in on an enemy.

There we have it everyone the final admission that DmC is indeed manually controlled and DMC4 is indeed automatically controlled as I've been saying from the very beginning. Finally it actually gets into your head how DMC4 is automatically controlled.

You've asked me in the past why you should take my word over gaming journalists. Well, allow me to pose the same question to you. Why should I believe you over the entire gaming community?

Again Tameem admited DmC was manual? Why should I take your word over his? The professionals, Capcom themselves and the gaming community have all said they prefer DmC. Its true a few DMC4 fans have lied for their camp homo. Yet why would I listen to fans who only started playing DMC with DMC4? I'm waiting!

If you're seriously not convinced by the video I showed you of an amateur player performing an infinite combo, then this might be worth it just for the sake of finally penetrating your thick head.

Again, as I said before. Thats the point of DmC, an amateur player performing an infinite combo is not a demonstration of skill. Its a demonstration of how the combat mechanics allow players to integrate more options in their gameplay. DMC4 has limited aerial mobility and aerial mechanics. Thats why the same things are not possible in DMC4. Like I said show me some DMD leaderboard scores in the top 10. If the game is easy prove its easy and top that leaderboard.

You tried to change it to something about how long the move took to complete, and I'm trying to bring us back to the original discussion.

How long a move takes to complete actually is important because that reffers to speed simple minded DMC4 fan. You see the faster the duration of a move, the faster you can finish that move and trigger a new move. Thats why duration is important. Not to mention the speed and start up time of Caliber offer a faster alternative to Sky Star, even more so than DMC4's Sky Star.

Thirdly...what the absolute heck does animation quality have to do with this debate?

Just another nail in your coffin. DmC exceeds that camp homo Twilight garbage on every level. Animation quality is defintely one of those areas.

Looks like DMC4 almost sold 3 million copies...and DmC didn't even hit a million.

DmC sold over 1 mil copies. DMC4 sold 2.7 mil copies when it came out. If it came out today it woulnd't sell that many. Yet you need sale for a game to be good. Thats fine, yet people like me don't rely on sales figures or the majority to define what is a good game. DMC4 sold what it sold, yet it was not a good game because it sold that many copies.

Because you don't represent the opinion of all DMC1 fans.

Nor do you represent any DMC fan, other than yourself.

Oh I agree, DMC4's story isn't good. It's just not as bad as this.

Lol. You need to link to an edited video with swearing. If you don't like swearing you should stay away from games like GTA5, The Last of Us and DmC. If someone can't handle swearing they should stick to their camp homo Twilight garbage. Nuff said.

The irony in this statement is that you were the one who came onto this thread and yelled at me first.

Again we can check your first post where you came into this thread and you lied for your camp homo. You seem to have a short term memory to forget that you came here to lie about the camp homo being Dante. No one asked you to lie. Do you expect DMC1 fans to blindly allow you to pretend that DMC4 was a good game so we can watch the Twilight nonsense continue?

If you're going to criticize what other people like, then don't get upset when those people criticize what you enjoy.

If you're going to lie about a game, then don't get upset when someone stand up and tells the truth about that camp homo Twilight shit, with bimbos and boobs for extra butchering of a classic francise. I forgot your allowed to crticise DmC, yet the DMC1 fans arn't allowed to tell the truth about DMC4.

Are you genuinely arguing here or just copy and pasting old topics?

Are you genuniely reading the arguments here. Like I said I can keep reposting the same stuff now you've been exposed. Like this:

Meaning the camera will focus on on the particular enemy you lock on to and keep them as the main object of focus. It doesn't say anything about Bayonetta's movement being confined to that enemy.

This is what you originally said:

It's still got directional attacks, relative focus, and movement based on the position of the enemy. That's how.

Your exact words were relative movement based on the position of the enemy. This is not the first time you actually said that. Again like I said, now what your saying is it doesn't say anything about Bayonetta's movement confined to that enemy. This is the word for word proof you have contradicted yourself yet again. You have tried to change what you've said, yet it cannot be changed. I will keep reposting and reposting this comment, as I will with your other failures. Thats because you've found a true DMC fan waiting in the fold, and you camp homo fan, you have been utterly exposed.

Like I said, prentending that all these points don't exist to hide your failure, simply won't work. You've been wrong about everything I've said here. Thats why you can't counter these points. You've failed. You've failed to take away our rights to prefer DmC to that camp homo Twilight shit you love so much.

That once again is word for word evidence where you've contradicted yourself after being exposed. Now surely if you've disproved my arguments already you will have no problem copy and pasting your previous response?... Wait... gasp... surely not. You ignore these points because you actually realise that you were wrong? Either answer the Bayonetta point or I will keep reposting it. I'm waiting!!

Because you've spent this entire time trying to convince me with this ridiculous crusade for DmC?

Convince you about what? DmC is better in many ways, I've explained things about the manual lock on and the performance of the combat. You keep trying to evade those points, like you evaded everything I previously said. No one said you have to agree with that, you can respectfully disagree. Yet you came into this thread for malicious reasons. You came into this thread because you wanted to take your anger out on true DMC fans. You did those things because your are a DMC4 fan, you are not a DMC fan. Unfortunately you found a true DMC fan waiting in the fold. If your not happy with DmC, why can't anyone else prefer it to DMC4? Your insistant to try and control what people think of DMC4 is what has started this. Your crusade for a game that wasn't a true sequel to DMC1 anyway, because you can't take that people didn't want it to continue.

No need for actual gameplay, let's just let players beat up on motionless enemies.

Well here it is everyone, the admiision that DMC4 IS inferior. All the videos you've linked to are players non-stop attacking motionless enemy's (singular). There you go, either now your a contradictory liar or your admiiting DMC4 was in fact garbage (which we all know). Which is it DMC4 fan?

At least we've established that DmC's actual missions don't offer anything worthwhile.

In what way are DMC4's boring missions better than DmC's? Not to mention DMC4 is half a game, the second half being a back track of the first half. I suppose your right then, DMC4 was indeed don't offer anything worthwhile what so ever. There it is everyone.

Your definition of fluidity and flexibility is really so sensitive that having to double tap a button is too much for you?

Lol. You really don't read your own comments do you:

At any rate, it's freaking taking your finger off a button. That takes literally less than a hundredth of a second.

Finally you admit that DMC4 was automatic. You see in that time you take your finger off a button, in that 'hundredth of a second'. Its not actually a 'hundreth of a second' by the way, its much longer; hence why there was a lag for certain manouvers like the Evade in DMC4. In that fraction of a second, you the player are at the mercy of the AI. That fraction of a second is determined by the AI, not the player. Hence thus in that time you the player are no longer in control. Thats why games like DMC, MGR and Bayonetta allow for much more fluidity and felxibity. Becuase their lock ons are instintaneous. You never loose control of what your targeting, unless you manually set yourself into neutral. Not to mention DmC features no slow down unlike DMC4's radidus restricted movement.

In other words, worst comes to worst, you can play DMC4 like you do DmC (which should apparently be much better, right?)

No you can't play DMC4 like DmC. You see the previous games were built around the button-lock, it would be unplyable without that. A lot of the actions you need are tied to holding the button lock. DmC's elegance is in allowing the player to perform everything without holding a button lock, giving way to more creativity and experimentation. For example the cross-combo manouver which is new to the series.

I literally just linked you a video showing an amateur DmC player pull off an infinite air combo by repeating the same three inputs and doing nothing else.

Lol. Exactly. Don't you realise your own mistake here. An amateur DMC player repeating the same moves, not doing anything else is not worthy of my attention. Its true DmC features better air mehcanics which Capcom confirmed. Hence why players are able to produce greater aerial creativity and innovation than DMC4. Not to mention DmC features the cross-combo offset manouver which brings a new level of depth to the aerial and ground based combat. Unlike something like DMC4 where you see players spamming the Enemy Step function to stay in the air indefinitely, DmC features more combat options in the air. Hence WHY you can stay in the air longer, and have greater mobility with your aerial manouvers. Not to mention some awesome Demon Air Dodging if the player has a sufficent level of skill. 

There you have it. In the same way that it's not your job to design a better DMC game than DMC4, it's not my job to design a better DMC game than DmC. We're all part of the fanbase, who critique the products that are released and give feedback as to how we'd like them improved. That's our role as fans. We're not developers.

There you have it. In the same way that it's not your job to design a better DMC game than DmC, it's not my job to design a better DMC game than DMC4. We're all part of the fanbase, who critique the products that are released and give feedback as to how we'd like them improved. That's our role as fans. We're not developers.

I have never said otherwise. I admitted that I was one of the many fans who critiqued DMC4, leading to Capcom creating a much better game. Its you who is now arrogantely going against Capcom,  claiming that you know better than Hideaki Itsuno on how to design a DmC game.