By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - The Xbox One is actually more powerful than the PS4

Zappykins on 23 August 2013
Kzoellner said:
Let us talk about the cloud or what most of us call it.... The internet. I get people like to be connected. But lets be real. If netflix uses 33% of all the "internet" resource in 2012. (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57546405-93/netflix-gobbles-a-third-of-peak-internet-traffic-in-north-america/) Would the cloud turn into a storm and cry from the X1 overload?

If you have lousy internet, then ya, you aren't going to be happy.  Considering their are investing more computers than the entire internet in 1997 I don't think it will be a problem.

Plus, as more fiber expands, it will become even less of a problem.

What was normal at 3 MB/s is not more like 10+ MB/s which is still way lower than most fiber.

 



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!
Around the Network
Machiavellian on 24 August 2013
Kzoellner said:
Kzoellner said:
Machiavellian said:
Kzoellner said:
Let us talk about the cloud or what most of us call it.... The internet. I get people like to be connected. But lets be real. If netflix uses 33% of all the "internet" resource in 2012. (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57546405-93/netflix-gobbles-a-third-of-peak-internet-traffic-in-north-america/) Would the cloud turn into a storm and cry from the X1 overload?

So let me ask you this question.  When the Xbox (first one) ditched dial up and went for broadband only what happen.  Next thing you know you have this device that only use broadband and adoption of broadband started to climb.  Next thing you know Sony does the same and no one very looked back.  Companes invested more money into broadband because of more subs.  This will be the same with the net as of today.  With just about every device connected to the net, more money gets invested into provide these services.  Now you see more MP only games coming out.  You see more companies investing into build more cloud solutions and developing more robust infrastructure to service these solutions.  So to believe the net will stay static is not thinking about how things work.  When more money is invested by users in a space then more investors looking to make a profit will improve that service.  


Interesting thought and great question.  How much has been invested in infrustructure?  Most redditors have witness the cloud falling of the Amazon enviroment.  It does not take much to overload a neighbor hub on a street for an ISP.  Hence why they make a killing charging different amounts for different pipes.  I would love to see the cloud grow with amazing applications.  It already has.  JavaScript use to be nothing but a toy for developers in lower langauges.  Now it is considered one of the most powerful lanaguages out there to know. 

Still... Take the time to notice lag or drive 50 miles into the woods and lose cell phone reception in North America. The cloud is only as strong as its connection to homes and businesses.  

Also... To top it off.  Probably realistically the only companies that help make the internet what it is today with technologies would be the p*rn industry. 

You know Amazon issue is a great example of the difference between MS Azure and Amazon.  One of the issues is when you have hardware problems what happens.  Its one of the reason why all MS servers are virtualize.  There is just a pool of resources, and applications and services run within this pool.  There are redundancy within the mix to replicate processing between multiple different nodes to make sure if something happens in a section of America, the customer would not experience any downtime because they process was replicated in Germany datacenter.  Customer can purchase how much replication they want to ensure no down time.  As I have stated in this thread, its one of the advantages MS cloud services have in Azure.



Machiavellian on 24 August 2013
Kzoellner said:

Interesting thought and great question.  How much has been invested in infrustructure?  Most redditors have witness the cloud falling of the Amazon enviroment.  It does not take much to overload a neighbor hub on a street for an ISP.  Hence why they make a killing charging different amounts for different pipes.  I would love to see the cloud grow with amazing applications.  It already has.  JavaScript use to be nothing but a toy for developers in lower langauges.  Now it is considered one of the most powerful lanaguages out there to know. 

Still... Take the time to notice lag or drive 50 miles into the woods and lose cell phone reception in North America. The cloud is only as strong as its connection to homes and businesses.  

True but you do not build for today for what today can only bring. The net and coverage does not remain static.  As more people depend on the net, even in the back woods of West Virginia will not be safe from cell phones.



errorpwns on 24 August 2013
PlaystaionGamer said:
Cute.

when it comes to graphical power the PS4 is more powerful by a good fair amount


Cute.

When it comes to graphical power my PC is more powerful by a good fair amount than both of them and cost just a little more than an Xbox One.



deskpro2k3 on 24 August 2013
errorpwns said:
PlaystaionGamer said:
Cute.

when it comes to graphical power the PS4 is more powerful by a good fair amount


Cute.

When it comes to graphical power my PC is more powerful by a good fair amount than both of them and cost just a little more than an Xbox One.


speaking out of context here, but when it comes to gaming, it is consoles that brought gaming into the mainstream.



CPU: Ryzen 7950X
GPU: MSI 4090 SUPRIM X 24G
Motherboard: MSI MEG X670E GODLIKE
RAM: CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM 32GB DDR5
SSD: Kingston FURY Renegade 4TB
Gaming Console: PLAYSTATION 5
Around the Network
Gamecube on 24 August 2013
CGI-Quality said:
Gamecube said:
Maybe we should just try to get along. Only way to get along with them is to pretend the ps4 is 500% more powerfull and outselling selling the xb1 100 to 1. These numbers might be "factual" enough to not offend there religious like beliefs.

I notice you jump into arguments, in favor of/against the Xbox, that don't generally use factual info. It has nothing to do with your proposed "Make.believe" nonsense, it's just factually incorrect. 


Other can use false information? I guess I'm just the wrong kind of person:). I'm glad you finally noticed the for/against xbox. I combat sillyness with exaggerated sillyness.  Since nobody knows for sure, 500% is possible, just like 50% more powerfull. There have been multiple articals on this site from game developers that say ps4 has a slight leg up, not this massive blowout everyone is predicting. Apparently I'm not allowed to use sony's slogan, I recieved a temp ban:). What were they thinking? http://www.sony.net/united/makedotbelieve/



Alby_da_Wolf on 24 August 2013
Machiavellian said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Assuming cloud computing power and internet connection speed are adequate, the decisive factor becomes lag. To "bake" lighting at a rate that makes it almost the same as dynamic, even bad lag, as soon as it's below, say, 80ms, should be enough to make the delay unnoticeable in most cases, to accelerate AI as well, but for other things a much lower lag will be needed: for graphics, to be useful at a 60HZ frame rate, lag+frame coprocessing time must be within 16ms, for physics, it depends on the update frequency of the game's physics engine, lag in the few tens ms range will be enough for many games, but not for racers, where the physics engine can process at a frame rate of 360Hz or more: in this case, though, the cloud could process the physics of AI-controlled competing cars at the proper frequency and communicate their position at a lower frequency, but only as long as competing cars aren't directly interacting with the player's car, like in clashes. In this case, though, the console will have to directly handle the physics of just two or little more (in case of bigger clashes and accidents) cars, unless there is a pile-up. In case of pile-ups, obviously, if the game was using more than the power available locally on the console, there will be a degradation of the game's performances. In flight sims, again, the cloud could process the physics and AI of anything that is too far away to have direct interaction with the player's aircraft, but like with racers, too many objects approaching the player could cause performances degradation. Also, in the case of combat flight sims, unless the lag be very low, objects in the range of the targeting system will have to be processed locally, even if still far away enough to be out of range for the weapons, otherwise the error induced by the lag could make it difficult to lock on them if they are performing fast evasive manoeuvres.

What you speak of is pretty much what MS showed at E3 behind closed doors with the asteroid demo on cloud processing.  The cloud can be used to process things that the player does not directly interact with. This will free up processing cycles so more resources can be put to what the player is doing and experiencing and the background AI, Physics an other calculations can use the cloud.  Building such a system would take a totally different makeup in how games are currently developed.  We probably would not see something like that for the standard singleplayer game but for MP only games, MMOs and Other types of games that depend on the internet.

I do not know about anybody else but my internet has been more steady then my electricity.  As more games and devices start to depend on the net, the net infrastructure will also improve significantly because more money and investment will go into that area.  Today's net probably will be totally different in 5 years because more business will spend more money to improve it.

It just seems a lot of gamers seem to only concentrate on the now, which is not bad in itself but most businesses need to concentrate on a solid 5 year plan so some decisions are more future looking then what can be done today.

I agree. And surely, as I wrote in another thread, any kind of online game with massive, crowded and detailed world are the ones that can benefit the most from the cloud compared with other solutions, and having to be connected anyway, really relying on the cloud can't be a problem, but just an improvement.
I'm quite concerned by the lag because despite my Internet bandwidth grew considerably since I first got connected, the lag of my connection still sucks, and it's quite erratic too. Despite this problem, that affects many others besides me, it's clear that if we consider the sum of lag plus servers response time, a cloud solution with granted resources can still improve its part of the total, so if internet lag is overwhelming, then cloud can do little to improve things, but it can already start improving things whenever the lag, despite still bad, is in the same order of magnitude of the slowest traditional server solutions response time, and when these latter suffer from eccessive traffic.

To sum it up, even with my lag, I can already be fine with the cloud if it's for online and it isn't shoehorned into local single player: for any online games it's already an improvement, whatever the lag (although a scarcely noticeable one if lag is very high), but for cloud enhanced local single player games lag still needs to improve a lot, except in the areas with the most advanced and powerful average internet connections.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!   


errorpwns on 24 August 2013
deskpro2k3 said:
errorpwns said:
PlaystaionGamer said:
Cute.

when it comes to graphical power the PS4 is more powerful by a good fair amount


Cute.

When it comes to graphical power my PC is more powerful by a good fair amount than both of them and cost just a little more than an Xbox One.


speaking out of context here, but when it comes to gaming, it is consoles that brought gaming into the mainstream.

Not entirely at all.



errorpwns on 24 August 2013
CGI-Quality said:
errorpwns said:
PlaystaionGamer said:
Cute.

when it comes to graphical power the PS4 is more powerful by a good fair amount


Cute.

When it comes to graphical power my PC is more powerful by a good fair amount than both of them and cost just a little more than an Xbox One.

Cute. 

When it comes to graphical power, my PC is more powerful by a good amount more than yours and probably cost way more, too! Sorry, just wanted to jump into the fun, just this once!


Well at least you have a powerful pc :-p



Machiavellian on 24 August 2013
Alby_da_Wolf said:

I agree. And surely, as I wrote in another thread, any kind of online game with massive, crowded and detailed world are the ones that can benefit the most from the cloud compared with other solutions, and having to be connected anyway, really relying on the cloud can't be a problem, but just an improvement.
I'm quite concerned by the lag because despite my Internet bandwidth grew considerably since I first got connected, the lag of my connection still sucks, and it's quite erratic too. Despite this problem, that affects many others besides me, it's clear that if we consider the sum of lag plus servers response time, a cloud solution with granted resources can still improve its part of the total, so if internet lag is overwhelming, then cloud can do little to improve things, but it can already start improving things whenever the lag, despite still bad, is in the same order of magnitude of the slowest traditional server solutions response time, and when these latter suffer from eccessive traffic.

To sum it up, even with my lag, I can already be fine with the cloud if it's for online and it isn't shoehorned into local single player: for any online games it's already an improvement, whatever the lag (although a scarcely noticeable one if lag is very high), but for cloud enhanced local single player games lag still needs to improve a lot, except in the areas with the most advanced and powerful average internet connections.

The lag problem is something that the COD developers talked about during an interview about dedicated servers.  Most IPs do not state correctly their location so people who are totally in another country get paired up with the wrong people.  Also people can be right next to each other but the hops between both players can be significant.  To combat this problem, the COD developers stated that they will be looking at hops between players instead of location to improve connection in MP games.  With Dedicated Servers running locally to your location and matchmaking adding people with the shortest hops to that server, this should pretty much kill the lag you are talking about and an hofully insure you get the best ping and connection in MP games

I believe if MS employ these same techniques, it would take care of the lag problem for singleplayer cloud based games.  This might be a reason why MS needs 300,000 servers.  The more servers local to people using cloud based singleplayer and MP games the better able they will be in handling lag and bandwidth issues.