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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - The Xbox One is actually more powerful than the PS4

anthony64641 on 22 August 2013

Xbox one confirmed to have Blast Processing?




'Video games are bad for you? That's what they said about rock-n-roll.'
-Shigeru Miyamoto

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JoeTheBro on 22 August 2013
SlayerRondo said:
Sony can easily provide the same functionality for the PS4 and given the lack of online requirement for the Xbox One it is dubious that developers will make the effort to use that capability.

And cant you imagine the annoyance of internet inconsistency on either end causing the quality of the game to vary from second to second.

Not the time.


As long as your internet stays ok, the quality would be constant. This isn't a bandwith problem, just ping. By being smart even the ping doesn't matter.

Take a rocket. While it is in air the servet can calculate explosion and destruction, then send it back to you before the rocket is even half way there.

 

Or you can have the server generate new light maps for after the building you shot down collapses. Real time lights handle the transition until the light map is loaded.

 

Or a burning building. The server can calculate realistic fire flow and use that info to modify the local simulation in real time.

 

All of these take little bandwidth and could handle seconds of latency.



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ShinmenTakezo on 22 August 2013
Machiavellian said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
Machiavellian said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
My favorite line is, "Not even the most popular gaming houses can afford to run them." Referring to dedicated servers.

Guerrilla
DICE
Insomniac
Zipper
....and plenty others had games with dedicated servers this gen

You need to read the COD thread on this subject.  Having dedicated servers isn't the problem.  Most devs and publishers tell you that its a huge cost to them to run these servers.  The servers have to be up all the time running waiting for players even if the player base isn't large.  

The difference is MS is giving away dedicated servers for next to nothing.  Also a huge advantage to MS solution is that a server doesn't just sit there waiting for players and taking up resources,  Instead it spins up when people start to matchmake in the area.  The next advantage is that the server spins up locally to the people being served, giving players best ping times and data bandwidth.   This is a huge advantage to the system because resources are not wasted and developers/publishers on pay for whats up and running.

I notice people who are very strong with the PS force seem to dismiss these advantages as if Sony can just call up Amazon and bam they will have the same level of service but this will not be the case.  MS spent 3 years building the software side of their service and it is next gen you may say in what it gives to devs/publishers.  

The next thing people dismiss without taking the time to research is MS cloud compute.  MS spent 3 years build this system called Orleans and you can research the tech your self.  Right Now the Halo team at 343 has moved their whole system over to Orleans so we actually might see some benefit from the cloud compute infrastructure sooner than later.  I not sure if MS cloud compute will make the X1 this powerhouse of a machine but I do believe we will see some very obvious advantages to the system that will separate games on the X1 from the PS4


There is no such thing as "MS cloud compute" There is cloud compute, and even your phone can do it. You're digging yourself a hole for absolutely no reason. I made a statement about a small fallacy about big studios not being able to afford dedicated servers when evidence suggests otherwise. You then bring it to a whole nubba lebel. Please don't start trying to feed me MS PR bullshit about the cloud.

Actually there is a MS cloud compute because they have an infrastructure they developed called Orleans.  In other words it's their version of performing, replicating discrete computations in the cloud.  Read up on it, its an interesting article.

No one has ever stated that big studios cannot support dedicated servers, what you did not say is the cost for those studios to pay for those servers.  This is something that has been talked about from developers to publishers for a while.  Its the reason why EA is quick to shut down servers for games where the player base reach a certain level.  Trying to keep those servers up and maintained cost money and if most of these studios are renting from some other company then its more expensive.  Most of the big boys do not want to have to purchase servers or rent them because its a cost.  Having 100 or thousands of servers to serve up dedicated games around the world for millions of games does not make sense for a business that does not gain any money from that venture.  This is why MS solution solves this for the big boys and the small indie.

MS offer a solution not just for the large studios but for all developers on their system.  Now your 5 team indie MP game can stand toe to toe with the big boys.  For the big boys now they have a platform thats takes away a lot of the management, cost and overhead of maintaining servers around the world which only show as an expense or cost not a profit.

Actually you are 100% dead wrong. Cloud compute is cloud compute is cloud compute. MS doesn't have anything special dealing with cloud compute. You are drinking the juice.

The OP suggested big studios didn't use dedicated servers because of costs. I said otherwise. I am right of course. I don't need to post numbers to be right on that point. No one is arguing that dedicated servers aren't expensive. I wouldn't argue about that because I have done zero research into the costs of dedicated servers.



Machiavellian on 22 August 2013
ShinmenTakezo said:
Machiavellian said:
Actually there is a MS cloud compute because they have an infrastructure they developed called Orleans.  In other words it's their version of performing, replicating discrete computations in the cloud.  Read up on it, its an interesting article.

No one has ever stated that big studios cannot support dedicated servers, what you did not say is the cost for those studios to pay for those servers.  This is something that has been talked about from developers to publishers for a while.  Its the reason why EA is quick to shut down servers for games where the player base reach a certain level.  Trying to keep those servers up and maintained cost money and if most of these studios are renting from some other company then its more expensive.  Most of the big boys do not want to have to purchase servers or rent them because its a cost.  Having 100 or thousands of servers to serve up dedicated games around the world for millions of games does not make sense for a business that does not gain any money from that venture.  This is why MS solution solves this for the big boys and the small indie.

MS offer a solution not just for the large studios but for all developers on their system.  Now your 5 team indie MP game can stand toe to toe with the big boys.  For the big boys now they have a platform thats takes away a lot of the management, cost and overhead of maintaining servers around the world which only show as an expense or cost not a profit.

Actually you are 100% dead wrong. Cloud compute is cloud compute is cloud compute. MS doesn't have anything special dealing with cloud compute. You are drinking the juice.

The OP suggested big studios didn't use dedicated servers because of costs. I said otherwise. I am right of course. I don't need to post numbers to be right on that point. No one is arguing that dedicated servers aren't expensive. I wouldn't argue about that because I have done zero research into the costs of dedicated servers.

You can tell me I am wrong all day but can you prove I am wrong.  You say cloud compute is cloud compute but you did not take the time to actually read up on what Orleans is but dismiss the technology without even understanding what it does.  If the tech is new and the implementation is different then what others are doing then it would mean its MS Cloud compute as they use it to solve business problems.  What that means is the technology was built to solve a problem which is game code compute.  Its implementation is different then MS other compute services like hosting business applications etc.  

I was not arguing what the OP stated, I was arguing my opinion on the subject.  So yes you are right on that one scope but your other points do not cover everyone



Panama on 22 August 2013

Pretty sure Yoshida made a tweet about PS4s cloud being able to do similar computations.



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ShinmenTakezo on 22 August 2013
Machiavellian said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
Machiavellian said:
Actually there is a MS cloud compute because they have an infrastructure they developed called Orleans.  In other words it's their version of performing, replicating discrete computations in the cloud.  Read up on it, its an interesting article.

No one has ever stated that big studios cannot support dedicated servers, what you did not say is the cost for those studios to pay for those servers.  This is something that has been talked about from developers to publishers for a while.  Its the reason why EA is quick to shut down servers for games where the player base reach a certain level.  Trying to keep those servers up and maintained cost money and if most of these studios are renting from some other company then its more expensive.  Most of the big boys do not want to have to purchase servers or rent them because its a cost.  Having 100 or thousands of servers to serve up dedicated games around the world for millions of games does not make sense for a business that does not gain any money from that venture.  This is why MS solution solves this for the big boys and the small indie.

MS offer a solution not just for the large studios but for all developers on their system.  Now your 5 team indie MP game can stand toe to toe with the big boys.  For the big boys now they have a platform thats takes away a lot of the management, cost and overhead of maintaining servers around the world which only show as an expense or cost not a profit.

Actually you are 100% dead wrong. Cloud compute is cloud compute is cloud compute. MS doesn't have anything special dealing with cloud compute. You are drinking the juice.

The OP suggested big studios didn't use dedicated servers because of costs. I said otherwise. I am right of course. I don't need to post numbers to be right on that point. No one is arguing that dedicated servers aren't expensive. I wouldn't argue about that because I have done zero research into the costs of dedicated servers.

You can tell me I am wrong all day but can you prove I am wrong.  You say cloud compute is cloud compute but you did not take the time to actually read up on what Orleans is but dismiss the technology without even understanding what it does.  If the tech is new and the implementation is different then what others are doing then it would mean its MS Cloud compute as they use it to solve business problems.  What that means is the technology was built to solve a problem which is game code compute.  Its implementation is different then MS other compute services like hosting business applications etc.  

I was not arguing what the OP stated, I was arguing my opinion on the subject.  So yes you are right on that one scope but your other points do not cover everyone

Orleans isn't a new way to cloud compute. It is a software framework MS developed to simplify the development of cloud services. Thats MS' own definition of Orleans.



Machiavellian on 22 August 2013
Panama said:
Pretty sure Yoshida made a tweet about PS4s cloud being able to do similar computations.

There is a huge difference in saying you can do something and actually doing it.  If it takes Sony 3 years to do it then they would be correct but that would mean 3 years of the competition having the abilty of doing it now and improving their infrastructure.

So yes, Sony will be able to do what MS does in some form or compacity but since it was not a focus for them in the beginning, who knows the quality, capacity or reach it will have and how long it will take if ever.



papamudd on 22 August 2013

Wouldn't increasing graphics output require cloud streaming? I don't rally think the cloud processing will improve graphics until later down the road when higher connection speeds are more standard. I think the cloud processing offers unique oppurtunities for advancing other things tho like what forza 4 is doing... In the future they may not need to release another console for improved graphics utilizing the cloud so it has the potential to last longer than ps4 unless sony really does great things with gakai



Talal said:
I will permaban myself if the game releases in 2014.

in reference to KH3 release date

Machiavellian on 22 August 2013
ShinmenTakezo said:
Machiavellian said:
You can tell me I am wrong all day but can you prove I am wrong.  You say cloud compute is cloud compute but you did not take the time to actually read up on what Orleans is but dismiss the technology without even understanding what it does.  If the tech is new and the implementation is different then what others are doing then it would mean its MS Cloud compute as they use it to solve business problems.  What that means is the technology was built to solve a problem which is game code compute.  Its implementation is different then MS other compute services like hosting business applications etc.  

I was not arguing what the OP stated, I was arguing my opinion on the subject.  So yes you are right on that one scope but your other points do not cover everyone

Orleans isn't a new way to cloud compute. It is a software framework MS developed to simplify the development of cloud services. Thats MS' own definition of Orleans.

All cloud compute soltutions are based on software.  Its a development platform for cloud computing which isn't something you can just easily dismiss.  Its being able to leverage a language like C# to handle decrete portion of your code in the cloud and apply as many resources to process that call as needed.  The difference in Orleans is that you have a full cloud development environment and framework to process pieces of your code.

Check this link out and the video how 343 is using it for their games

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/orleans/

At least now it appears you actually read up on it.  Its a complete infrastructure to handle computation resources.  Its MS implementation of cloud compute to solve a specific problem for game related code.  The problem I had with your previous statements is that you dismissed something that MS has worked on for 3 years as if there is no significant development on the platform.  



Frogger on 22 August 2013
attaboy said:
Blast Processing.


Pretty much.