TheSting said: 1.) 1st they put it back to the way the 360 is now. Kinect less etc...  2.) Point of my question was in response to yours which basically said. How could they have a two way and release something the fans didn't want? 3.) My question basically said the fans didn't have a two way because they didn't even know it was going to be like that till after it was showcased.  Seems like imo your POV is that the fans knew ahead of time had a two way and MS didn't listen. I'm saying no one knew so how can they have a two way? They had a vision they released it the community outcry which was vocal forced them to go back to the way 360 is now excluding the new features of course.

1.) They put it back the way it was after the backlash. It was never their original intent, so it doesn't instantly take them off the hook for attempting to introduce anti-consumer policies. Their initial vision for XBone was not what it is now. The backlash fromthe community and most likely from lower than expected preorders is what caused the shift, just like how the indie community lashing out is why they have now changed their policies there as well. 

2.) The point of my question was exactly as I stated it. If Phil is right and they make decisions based on consumer input, how could they have possible fudged things up as badly as they did and have to completely change their product as well as many of their policies? I can't remember the last time I saw something like that. They obviously read their market completely wrong. There was an obvious disconnect.

3.) Understood, but that doesn't change the fact that people have bitched and moaned about DRM (for non-digital titles specifically) for years now and showed it was strongly opposed, as well as knew full well the 2nd hand market was very important to consumers, as it is in almost every market, yet they completely showed a lack of caring and still decided to push forward with everything anyways. It was 100% in their best interest. So again, they failed to read the market, which makes you question what Phil is saying.

4.) My POV is MS neglected to listen to the market and instead pushed forward with ideas that were most beneficial to themselves and big publishers, not to gamers or small up and coming developers.

 

 

It is all great that they have chosen to listen now, but I am still on the sidelines and watching to see how they move forward from here. They lost a lot of trust from me and I am not as easily forgiving as others. They need to earn it back and that takes much much more than just 2 months.

He's right, being able to react for the better is a good thing, but it also means that your future promises don't hold weight.

Right now there is a thread on VGChartz with Phil Harrison saying that "the X1 will never come without Kinect". How can anyone say they believe that with 100% certainty now?

JayWood2010 said: Jay520 said:   Okay, from the gaming industry... What about whenever Microsoft would come out and say "Call of Duty is superior on Xbox" I guess that's trolling too, huh? Yes talking up exclusive content that they paid for is obviously trolling.  How about staying on topic Jay and saying something where MSFT trolled sony THE COMPANY for a mistake they have made like PSN, The Vita, the PS3's pricetag, etc (Because yes sony has made mistakes.) or you could use an example where MSFT did it to apple, or apple did it to MSFT.  or Nvidia doing it to AMD etc.  In which i will say everytime, yes it is unprofessional regardless of the company. Or is that "ILLOGICAL" and "Hilarious" that i have a different view on the situation ;)

Wait, so you are saying that Microsoft was trolling in that situation? Wow, okay. So they pay for something to make their console more desirable, yet they don't have the right to state it publicly? Lol, okay. You've destroyed your credibility more than I ever could.

There's no reason for me to give another example because the principles are the ssme with the example I already gave. In both cases, a company simply stated its advantage. In both cases, you think its trolling. Like I said, you've helped me more than I ever could. Congrats.

Jay520 said: JayWood2010 said:   Wait, so you are saying that Microsoft was trolling in that situation? Wow, okay. So they pay for something to make their console more desirable, yet they don't have the right to state it publicly? Lol, okay. You've destroyed your credibility more than I ever could. There's no reason for me to give another example because the principles are the ssme with the example I already gave. In both cases, a company simply stated its advantage. In both cases, you think its trolling. Like I said, you've helped me more than I ever could. Congrats.

lol  Well your examples were kind of meh anyways. And while you tried taking your jabs, talked about paper and refused to comment about electronic companies I stuck to my original comment.  And while you try and put words into my mouth like your last comment instead of understanding sarcasm i stuck to my opinion and "if you disagree that is perfectly fine".   But as you clearly dont understand that we dont agree and WILL NOT agree because different opinions are allowed. But I see that you would rather make an argument out of nothing to prove the horrible JayWood is wrong is more important to you, so much that you have to go off topic and put words in my mouth.  As I said before.

good day sir.

I am getting the sense here that companies should unveil new consoles, features and games and then shut off their PR and never speak again until the next console, feature or game is set to unveil.

Am I understanding this right?


I don't know what all the hoopla is about this comment. I just see company stating to their consumer base that what they initially sold you is what you will get and that they intend to stay the course the initially set out on.

I don't see how it is a bad thing.

JayWood2010 said: Jay520 said: JayWood2010 said:   Wait, so you are saying that Microsoft was trolling in that situation? Wow, okay. So they pay for something to make their console more desirable, yet they don't have the right to state it publicly? Lol, okay. You've destroyed your credibility more than I ever could. There's no reason for me to give another example because the principles are the ssme with the example I already gave. In both cases, a company simply stated its advantage. In both cases, you think its trolling. Like I said, you've helped me more than I ever could. Congrats. lol  Well your examples were kind of meh anyways. And while you tried taking your jabs, talked about paper and refused to comment about electronic companies I stuck to my original comment.  And while you try and put words into my mouth like your last comment instead of understanding sarcasm i stuck to my opinion and if you disagree that is perfectly fine.   But as you clearly dont understand that we dont agree and WILL NOT agree because different opinions are allowed. But I see that you would rather make an argument out of nothing to prove the horrible JayWood is wrong is more important to you, so much that you have to go off topic and put words in my mouth.  As I said before. good day sir.

Wait....were you being sarcastic when you said Microsoft was trolling? I honestly couldn't tell. Either way, your main point that "a company can't state their advantages because its trolling " is simply nonsensical and I think you can see that. You're just being stubborn.

Jay520 said: JayWood2010 said: Jay520 said: JayWood2010 said:   Wait, so you are saying that Microsoft was trolling in that situation? Wow, okay. So they pay for something to make their console more desirable, yet they don't have the right to state it publicly? Lol, okay. You've destroyed your credibility more than I ever could. There's no reason for me to give another example because the principles are the ssme with the example I already gave. In both cases, a company simply stated its advantage. In both cases, you think its trolling. Like I said, you've helped me more than I ever could. Congrats. lol  Well your examples were kind of meh anyways. And while you tried taking your jabs, talked about paper and refused to comment about electronic companies I stuck to my original comment.  And while you try and put words into my mouth like your last comment instead of understanding sarcasm i stuck to my opinion and if you disagree that is perfectly fine.   But as you clearly dont understand that we dont agree and WILL NOT agree because different opinions are allowed. But I see that you would rather make an argument out of nothing to prove the horrible JayWood is wrong is more important to you, so much that you have to go off topic and put words in my mouth.  As I said before. good day sir. Wait....were you being sarcastic when you said Microsoft was trolling? I honestly couldn't tell. Either way, your main point that "a company can't state their advantages because its trolling " is simply nonsensical and I think you can see that. You're just being stubborn.

You can read through my comments again.  I also stated this.  "You should not troll a company for a MISTAKE they have made." It is disrespectful and out of bad taste and nothing you say will change my opinion on that.  

If Microsoft would have made fun of the PSN incident I would have said it was unprofessional as well.  If Nintendo would have made fun of the Dreamcast because it went out of business, I would have once again said it is unprofessional.  Companies can promote their products and that is fine but they should never be disrespectful while doing it.  In this case i PERSONALLY view it as disrespectful and out of bad taste.

and ONCE AGAIN, if you disagree then I am not going to argue about it.  Just because you have a different view than i do does not mean you are wrong and vice versa.

Kresnik said: I agree with him in the sense that it's better that MS have listened to what consumers want and I totally respect that. It's very much the right thing to do. The problem I have with it is - how did they come up with this console which consumers had to make so much noise about changing in the first place? It makes all this talk about "two-way conversations" seem like it's something they've just implemented. We're listening to you now (but, we weren't going to listen to you when we started). Still, as long as they get to the right place in the end then that's all that matters. edit: As a side note, all this ribbing between rival companies in this sector seems so tame these days.  I definitely like it better but it's not half as entertaining.

I think it's because people were to busy screaming to realize that some of the options were good.  Microsoft didn't explain the benifits of the new system as they should have.  Like family sharing and having all your games travel with you.

Now you see people thinking 'hey, some of those things are really good.'

I think they would have been wise to offer two modes - and offline mode, more like it is now, and an online mode - the one they promoted.

Either way, I think it's funny people complain, "Hey! They listend to use and gave us what we wanted!  Now I really hate them! They tried to make me happy; I resent that!"

All the trolling just makes the company that's doing it look poorly and like a poor sport.

(something something 4)

JayWood2010 said: You can read through my comments again.  I also stated this.  "You should not troll a company for a MISTAKE they have made." It is disrespectful and out of bad taste and nothing you say will change my opinion on that.   If Microsoft would have made fun of the PSN incident I would have said it was unprofessional as well.  If Nintendo would have made fun of the Dreamcast because it went out of business, I would have once again said it is unprofessional.  Companies can promote their products and that is fine but they should never be disrespectful while doing it.  In this case i PERSONALLY view it as disrespectful and out of bad taste.

Okay, this is my last post:

They peacefully and harmlessly stated that their competitor wasn't consistent with their Xbox One policy (This is a Fact). And they've contrasted that with themselves by peacefully stating that they have been consistent with PS4's policy.

Nothing, NOTHING there indicates trolling, slander, disrespect, childishness, arrogance, or any fathamable negative intention. It's just not there. Giving a simply contrast is one of the most commonly used tactics by marketers. Get used to it. I'm really sorry that you can't see that. I truly am.