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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Bethesda: Wii U is "not on our radar". "It's largely a hardware thing."

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Zero999 on 11 August 2013
oniyide said:
Zero999 said:
oniyide said:
bobgamer said:
Multimedialover said:
I dont get why many people are surprised by this.

The Wii U is significanttly underpowered compared to PC, Xbox One and PS4. Maybe the game mechanics themmselves not just visuals would not work? After all Elder Scrolls is memory intensive forr example.

Im not surprised at all. Some developers games just wouldnt be the same if downscaled THAT much.

Try telling that to Zero999...

And yes, i don't think many devs are going to want to support a plataform that doesn't reward them so much (3rd parties don't do well on nintendo's hardware normally...) while still having to deliver a gimped experience (which can result in backslash) because of hardware issues... It doesn't seem like a very nice place to be in (i am completely speculating, i - like many of us - don't actually know that much about the industry...  I wish devs could be more transparent on their bussiness)


some people dont understand that its not just abouy graphics, draw distance, AI, whole game mechanics are affected when porting a game to a conosle that it was never meant to be on.

quite the contradiction here, isn't it?

And since 3ds can get a decent port of a ps360 game, certainly the wii u can get a great port of ps4/xone since it is much closer to ps4/xone than 3ds to ps360.


sure cause a 2d fighting game is just as taxing on hardware as a HUGE open world WRPG is. Not to mention even in the 3ds case they still had to cut some stuff back( no moving backgrounds) you're still not getting it.

it got the game right? and as I already said, wii u is so much closer to ps4/xone than 3ds is to ps360 that you can't even compare. especially when 3ds is still in the "good graphics" range while wii u is in the amazing/perfect level and diminishing returns already aply.



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Zero999 on 11 August 2013
bobgamer said:
Multimedialover said:
I dont get why many people are surprised by this.

The Wii U is significanttly underpowered compared to PC, Xbox One and PS4. Maybe the game mechanics themmselves not just visuals would not work? After all Elder Scrolls is memory intensive forr example.

Im not surprised at all. Some developers games just wouldnt be the same if downscaled THAT much.

Try telling that to Zero999...

And yes, i don't think many devs are going to want to support a plataform that doesn't reward them so much (3rd parties don't do well on nintendo's hardware normally...) while still having to deliver a gimped experience (which can result in backslash) because of hardware issues... It doesn't seem like a very nice place to be in (i am completely speculating, i - like many of us - don't actually know that much about the industry...  I wish devs could be more transparent on their bussiness)

bolded: I don't want people telling me, I want people showing me. and I was alredy shown the opposite.

bolded 2: you can keep saying that but a lie told a thousand times doesn't become the truth.



DevilRising on 11 August 2013

Well that's swell. It's not as if they make half-assed, glitchy as fuck games anyway.

Although, IF ES6 is any good, whenever it finally comes, and plays like/improves on Skyrim, I would have liked to have it available on Wii U. Seeing as I'm not really planning to get another next gen console.



Zero999 on 11 August 2013
HoloDust said:
RazorDragon said:
HoloDust said:

The amount of things you'd need to downgrade to get to that 30fps from 3-5fps is anything but "minor". Is it possible - it theory, why not, just as it's in theory probably possible to put Halo 4 on original Xbox. Is it feasible or sensible? Not really, specially with this traditional Nintendo user base.

That's why WiiU is really badly designed for console that was supposedly going after better 3rd party support - you either need to have user base that will heavily support 3rd parties on your platform, so that publishers will put extra work to port their titles to your platform no matter the raw power of hardware, or you need to have easy and powerful enough hardware so they can port easily, no matter the user base.

WiiU, sadly, doesn't have either...and I really mean sadly - if they made WiiU=PS2 when comparing with 6th gen in terms of raw power, they would have all they need to fight with the big boys and still be cheaper, if only it wasn't for another attempt in "innovating" with that Gamepad.


Crysis 3, for example, needs a Core i7, a HD 7970 and 8GB RAM to run maxed out, but it's minimum specs are a Athlon II X2 CPU/Pentium Dual Core, HD 6450 and 2GB RAM. That's a far higher power difference than the one between Wii U and PS4/XOne and no geometry is changed between low and high settings. You play the exactly same game on high or low, it's just that lightning, textures, shadow, water quality, resolution, etc., are different, the experience is the same since the overall polygon count is the same, therefore, the game isn't any different from a gameplay perspective. Halo 4 on Xbox simply wouldn't be possible because we're comparing a Geforce 2 GTS to a Radeon X1800. Power difference is to big to simply change the textures and lightning. Not in Wii U's case, though, based on current high-end PC releases.

Difference between 7970 and 6450 is about 16x. X360 to XBox 1 is some 8x (it's not GF2 GTS btw, it's derived from GF3, and compares to GF3 Ti500/GF4 Ti4200, and Xenos has actually more in common with R600 than X1800).

And, at least to my eyes, Cryisis 3 Low on 6450 does not look anything like Crysis 3 Ultra on 7970. Just as Fallout 3 (since we're speaking of Bethesda here) on Ultra looks completely different than Fallout 3 on Low (which is actually much better example than Crysis, so I'd suggest to everyone who owns the game to try it out).

But yes, XOne to WiiU difference is not that big, 2x most likely, so considering that's the lowest performing console of two next-gen offerings (power wise), it boils down to what that great DICE interview on EG was all about - it is a tech thing, and it is a user base thing. Move one out of the way, and you'll get support.

corrected.



bobgamer on 11 August 2013
Zero999 said:
bobgamer said:
Multimedialover said:
I dont get why many people are surprised by this.

The Wii U is significanttly underpowered compared to PC, Xbox One and PS4. Maybe the game mechanics themmselves not just visuals would not work? After all Elder Scrolls is memory intensive forr example.

Im not surprised at all. Some developers games just wouldnt be the same if downscaled THAT much.

Try telling that to Zero999...

And yes, i don't think many devs are going to want to support a plataform that doesn't reward them so much (3rd parties don't do well on nintendo's hardware normally...) while still having to deliver a gimped experience (which can result in backslash) because of hardware issues... It doesn't seem like a very nice place to be in (i am completely speculating, i - like many of us - don't actually know that much about the industry...  I wish devs could be more transparent on their bussiness)

bolded: I don't want people telling me, I want people showing me. and I was alredy shown the opposite.

bolded 2: you can keep saying that but a lie told a thousand times doesn't become the truth.

ZombiU, the best selling third party game on WiiU 'didnt even come close to break even" (i am sure the quote is something like that), Black Ops 2 sold 190k (remember, COD is a juggernaut that sells 10 mil per plataform on PS360), NFS MW, the best third party port so far bombed so hard it made a crater on WiiU, AC 3 sold 170k. Even Just Dance, which normally did amazing numbers on the Wii did only 200k. So please tell me how third parties doing well on WiiU specifically is the norm and not the exception (i dont think there's even an exception at this point in time).



Not-so-proud owner of every current-gen system. 

Next-gen is upon us folks!

And some cool and inspiring quotes

“Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.” 
― Oscar Wilde
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.” 
― Bernard M. Baruch
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bobgamer on 11 August 2013
Zero999 said:
HoloDust said:
Difference between 7970 and 6450 is about 16x. X360 to XBox 1 is some 8x (it's not GF2 GTS btw, it's derived from GF3, and compares to GF3 Ti500/GF4 Ti4200, and Xenos has actually more in common with R600 than X1800).

And, at least to my eyes, Cryisis 3 Low on 6450 does not look anything like Crysis 3 Ultra on 7970. Just as Fallout 3 (since we're speaking of Bethesda here) on Ultra looks completely different than Fallout 3 on Low (which is actually much better example than Crysis, so I'd suggest to everyone who owns the game to try it out).

But yes, XOne to WiiU difference is not that big, 2x most likely, so considering that's the lowest performing console of two next-gen offerings (power wise), it boils down to what that great DICE interview on EG was all about - it is a tech thing, and it is a user base thing. Move one out of the way, and you'll get support.

corrected.

If you still believe that, mind adressing these facts (unlike your opinions, sigh) raised by Holodust?

HoloDust said:
You're just wasting perfectly good bytes on him...he has no comprehension about hardware, and that GFLOPS are not the way to

compare GPUs, so he would not understand that 7770 is some 30% faster than 5770 although they are rated about the same

when it comes to GFLOPS...just as he does not want to  accept that you can't get his self-proclaimed 500-600 GFLOPS out of

such a small silicon based on VLIW5 architecture, 550 MHz clock and 40/45nm fab.

His "estimate" that WiiU's GPU is "equal to or above" 5770 just shows how ignorant on this matter he actually is.


Not-so-proud owner of every current-gen system. 

Next-gen is upon us folks!

And some cool and inspiring quotes

“Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.” 
― Oscar Wilde
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.” 
― Bernard M. Baruch
HoloDust on 11 August 2013

Apparently, certain individual here, who's basing his assumptions on random beliefs of how hardware actually works, think that WiiU is only half XOne...

So, what he's basically saying is that WiiU's GPU is comparable to:

4770@750MHz, 640:32:16 VLIW5 40nm part or 667O@800MHz, 480:24:16 VLIW5 40nm part...

Or perhaps he thinks that WiiU is 28nm fab, and that Nintendo downclocked 7750 to 550MHz, 512:32:16 GCN part?

Cause THAT'S around what is needed to be half the XOne in performance when you look at real life GPU tests.

I'd say it is truly amazing how Nintendo managed to cram so much in such a small silicon with such a low TDP, without resorting to some exotic alien tech. Except, unless in imagination of certain people, those numbers and real life don't really match up, so what's inside WiiU is nowhere near that.

So, while that individual can keep correcting my statements as much as he like (I have quite a good laugh out of it), it doesn't change the fact that WiiU is quite below what he keeps trying to convince less tech educated people around here, all based on his complete ignorance in how hardware actually works in real life.



Screamapillar on 11 August 2013

When was the last time Bethesda has supported a Nintendo home console?

Does anyone have any historical data for this, to give it some context?



The Screamapillar is easily identified by its constant screaming—it even screams in its sleep. The Screamapillar is the favorite food of everything, is sexually attracted to fire, and needs constant reassurance or it will die.

Zero999 on 11 August 2013
bobgamer said:
Zero999 said:
bobgamer said:

Try telling that to Zero999...

And yes, i don't think many devs are going to want to support a plataform that doesn't reward them so much (3rd parties don't do well on nintendo's hardware normally...) while still having to deliver a gimped experience (which can result in backslash) because of hardware issues... It doesn't seem like a very nice place to be in (i am completely speculating, i - like many of us - don't actually know that much about the industry...  I wish devs could be more transparent on their bussiness)

bolded: I don't want people telling me, I want people showing me. and I was alredy shown the opposite.

bolded 2: you can keep saying that but a lie told a thousand times doesn't become the truth.

ZombiU, the best selling third party game on WiiU 'didnt even come close to break even" (i am sure the quote is something like that), Black Ops 2 sold 190k (remember, COD is a juggernaut that sells 10 mil per plataform on PS360), NFS MW, the best third party port so far bombed so hard it made a crater on WiiU, AC 3 sold 170k. Even Just Dance, which normally did amazing numbers on the Wii did only 200k. So please tell me how third parties doing well on WiiU specifically is the norm and not the exception (i dont think there's even an exception at this point in time).

bolded: because it's an exclusive. it still has a 20% atch rate if you count digital sales.

and that 190k is a good amount for a launch multiplatform title, the same applies to AC3. and the comparison with ps360 is uterly ridiculous because of the installed base differences. all the games that you listed did well, the biggest proof is that their sequels are coming to wii u this year and will probably all cross the 500k mark.



Zero999 on 11 August 2013
HoloDust said:

Apparently, certain individual here, who's basing his assumptions on random beliefs of how hardware actually works, think that WiiU is only half XOne...

So, what he's basically saying is that WiiU's GPU is comparable to:

4770@750MHz, 640:32:16 VLIW5 40nm part or 667O@800MHz, 480:24:16 VLIW5 40nm part...

Or perhaps he thinks that WiiU is 28nm fab, and that Nintendo downclocked 7750 to 550MHz, 512:32:16 GCN part?

Cause THAT'S around what is needed to be half the XOne in performance when you look at real life GPU tests.

I'd say it is truly amazing how Nintendo managed to cram so much in such a small silicon with such a low TDP, without resorting to some exotic alien tech. Except, unless in imagination of certain people, those numbers and real life don't really match up, so what's inside WiiU is nowhere near that.

So, while that individual can keep correcting my statements as much as he like (I have quite a good laugh out of it), it doesn't change the fact that WiiU is quite below what he keeps trying to convince less tech educated people around here, all based on his complete ignorance in how hardware actually works in real life.

laugh all you want, your smile will vanish soon.