It only doesn't make sense becomes it effectively rebukes your claim that FFXII has too much grinding in order to progress with the story. Grinding exists in RPGs for leveling up and stat growth, not for acting as a bridge between story scenes. If there's too much grinding between cinematics for your liking, that isn't a flaw. It simply means you want less gameplay between cinematics. That's a subjective stance and merely a personal opinion. FFXII is not flawed just because it didn't cater to your specific demands.

It rebukes nothing. You need to grind to lvl so you can advance in the story otherwise it become too difficult and you die. I played the game, i know that is the case. You can say whatever you want, it doesnt really make a difference. You have your opinion and i have mine.

And so you know, i didnt avoid fights in the game cause it wasnt worth it. I had to run around looking for fights or i wouldnt stand a chance. That is why the game is boring. Doing this in an online MMO makes sense cause its a temporary state for you to get to level cap (and you can chat to other people while doing it), in a single player, it does not.

LOL! You are seriously trying to compare the open map design of FFXII to the linear pathways of FFX? Seriously? You couldn't be more wrong, bro. FFX doesn't come close to the openess of the world of FFXII. It's not even in the same league. Also, I've played through FFXII over 11 times (currently on my 12th playthrough) and I can comfortably tell you that you can get to certain areas long, long, long before the story dictates you should go there. The game is very unrestricted in terms of exploration. It only restricts a few locations, while everywhere else is possible to be reached. FFX just gave you an airship to revist locations right before you faced the last boss. That's nothing like the freedom that FFXII offered.

Also, the story was not slowly paced. Stop riding on preconceptions on what the ideal pacing of a story should be. That's you downfall when critcising FFXII. As a video game, there's no rule on how fast or slow a story should be portrayed. What's most important is the gameplay and how that's paced. FFXII has fantastic gameplay pacing. You will travel to loads of areas and have long stretches of gameplay between story. As a video game, that's a good thing. Wanting more cinematics for the sake of story is simply you desiring FFXII to have been an interactive movie.

As I said before, they did not design eveything to be obtainable. They deliberately made it so it would be almost impossible to get 100% completion. For example, the only way to get the Zodiac Spear is by using a RNG exploit. If you don't use the RNG method and try and get the weapon in a legit way, there's a crazy low rate of getting it. It's a 1/100 chance of the chest that holds it appearing, and then a 1/1000 chance of it actually being in the chest. Good luck trying to get the weapon  legitametly.

Lastly, what makes a character interesting to me? Not much. The most important aspects are their dialogue, beliefs, and goals. I don't give a shit about extensive backstory and extensive character development.  This is not a novel. Just give me a character that has great dialogue, an intriguing belief, and a goal they want to achieve by the end of the game. That's enough for me to be engaged by them during our journey through the game. After all, Link is my fave video game character and he has very little back story or character development in any of the Zelda games he's been in. Heck, he doesn't even talk! LOL!

Nem said:

 It rebukes nothing. You need to grind to lvl so you can advance in the story otherwise it become too difficult and you die. I played the game, i know that is the case. You can say whatever you want, it doesnt really make a difference. You have your opinion and i have mine.

And so you know, i didnt avoid fights in the game cause it wasnt worth it. I had to run around looking for fights or i wouldnt stand a chance. That is why the game is boring. Doing this in an online MMO makes sense cause its a temporary state for you to get to level cap (and you can chat to other people while doing it), in a single player, it does not.

Although I respected that game, it screamed "MMO" it had neither weight nor charisma. The story was also mediocre and the cast of characters with the exception of Balthier isn't memorable.

I hate it when I don't get noticed if I'm not the first person you quote. Makes it harder to response in time.

I'm not comparing map designs, I'm comparing openness in practice. The first thing I tried to do when I played FFXII was to explore areas I wasn't supposed to go to. I got owned, totally. Whenever I tried to go that wasn't where the story tried to make me go, the enemies were far too powerful. Maybe I had bad luck but I certainly couldn't go anywhere. Open in theory, not in practice. No fun going somewhere you get owned so quickly.

Are you trying to argue I should ignore the pacing because it doesn't matter as long as gameplay pacing is good? Because that's exactly what it feels like you're trying to say. I don't care what an ideal pacing is, the pacing in FFXII felt wrong and that's what matters to me. As for gameplay pacing, it wasn't very good either. Gameplay in FFXII is fun but not quite great, which in turn means I didn't find it interesting to grind through dozens of enemies for an hour or two before having a proper break. And that was the majority of gameplay in the game.

As far as I know, it's not a RNG problem. It was even mentioned in the official guidebook if I recall correctly. Too bad I missed that piece when I was playing the game. And every other item in the game is somewhat easily obtainable, so I don't really see why you're still trying to argue they didn't mean the player to get everything if he wanted to. If they didn't mean it that way, they failed.

Your definition of an interesting character is something I can somewhat agree with. However, in FFXII's case, IIRC most characters didn't really get much dialogue and as foor Vaan and Penelo, I don't even remember their goals. I think it was along the lines "our situation sucks, we demand justice" and then they went with the flow. Either way, they were totally forgottable characters and especially with Vaan being pretty much the main character, that's a problem. The rest were somewhat interesting but with the story pacing of the game, didn't really stand out. As for Link, I can't really say because I haven't played a Zelda game ever. If I had to guess, if he's an interesting character, it's because of what he does, his personality, and the fact that he's on the screen pretty much all the time so you get to know him (and no one's stealing the attention from him).

Overall, I get the impression that because we're talking about games, you want the story to be as minimalistic as possible at the expense of gameplay. Nothing wrong with that opinion but you might want to consider the fact that other people may not think the same way as you do. Personally, everything from pure gameplay to something that's practically an interactive movie is fine as long as it's a fun experience. When I play games, I don't think "I play games, I want this kind of an experience". I don't care if it's a game-like experience as long as it's fun. FFXII was fun but certainly not something that was "ahead of its time" or anything. It got the critique it got because it had flaws, it didn't appeal to all the people it tried to appeal to. Some people could live with the flaws and perhaps not even see them as flaws, while others could not, and the latter group was (and is) pretty big too.

The point remains that FFXII had a world far more open than FFX. I'm surprised you even thought to compre them. They're not in the same league. FFX is literally a straight line until you get the airship before the last boss. In FFXII, you can go almost anywhere, even if the enemies are way over your level. Therefore, in both theory and practice, FFXII is a very open game. Having enemies that are too poweful in certain areas deosn't change that, it instead supports it.

With regards to story pacing, I'm merely stating that there's no rule that dictates the ideal pacing of story cinematics in a video game. I think you're riding off your experience with past FF games and using their story pacing to critcise FFXII. You have to judge FFXII on its own merits and as its own standalone game. After all, the world is far more realistic in scale than any past FF. As a result, story scene pacing has also been spread out far more realistically. One thing I do agree with you on is that FFXII is simply just battling and exploring. While I enjoyed this, I wold have liked some more variety in gameplay, such as a few mini-games. At one point they were going to put in playable airship battles as a mini-game, but sadly it didn't make the cut.

Getting the best weapons is definitely a RNG issue. To get the Zodiac Spear, you have to not open 4 certain chests and this will alter the RNG and allow the weapon to be 100% obtained from a chest later in the game. This also applies to many other rare items. Therefore, if people never bought the official guide, they would have no way of knowing this item was even in the game, yet alone how to obtain it. That's why I say the developers didn't want the game to be 100% completable. If they did, the actual game would provide cryptic clues and hints about rare items and weapons and how to get them.

I found Vaan and Penelo to be good characters. I remember their goals well and that carried me through the game. However, I think people expected too much character development from the FFXII cast. I'm glad there was barely any, as it allowed the cast to feel more realistic and not fake and overly scripted. I also really enjoyed the dialogue of the cast; the game has superb voice acting. Lastly, the lasting legacy of Vaan is a testament of how well written the script of FFXII was.

On my view on video games, I believe that gameplay comes first and story should be written to support the gameplay. For example, if you make a game that's open world and primarily about exploring, you should write a script that's focused on the world itself and what's happening in it, not one focused on the characters your controlling. You can include some character development, but the world should be at the forefront of the story, as that's what the gameplay revolves around. However, if you're making a game that's linear and the player walks in a straight line from A to B (basically FFX and FFXIII), you can make a story more focused on character development. With the fact FFXII was open world and mainly about exploring, I find the story to be very good. The story urges you to keep exploring and visting new locations.

The point I was trying to make when comparing when I compared FFX and FFXII was that in practice, you were absolutely free to do anything you want only at the very end of the game. I know and admit that FFXII has more freedom but in practice, it's very hard to go anywhere until the end of the game. Part of the open world appeal to me is that I can visit places properly, even if it means running or sneaking past high level enemies. In FFXII, neither is a viable option until later in the game. Overall, in theory I could go anywhere I wanted in FFXII but in practice, I felt very restricted because I couldn't go anywhere because I would die very quickly and there was no point in going anywhere (well, trying to) because almost all the content in the game revolved around killing stuff.

I'm not comparing FFXII that much to the previous installments of the series. I can appreciate games for what they are. Sometimes I get angry developers/publishers use a known name just to get more publicity but overall, that doesn't take away from my enjoyment of a game. If I wanted to review FFXII as a Final Fantasy game, my main problem would probably be the fact that FFXII is kind of realistic and doesn't have that much fantasy in it. Like I said, the pacing just doesn't feel right to me. I didn't say it didn't feel right for a Final Fantasy game, I said it didn't feel right period.

I just find it strange how an RNG issue would find its way to the official guide. Guides don't generally advertise bugs in a game. Also, the rest of the items are somewhat easy to acquire if you know what to do. Games where getting everything usually are like that, only rarely do games seem to make getting all items easy and obvious without guides and such.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about Vaan and Penelo then, I suppose. You liked them, I didn't. I guess we'll also have to agree to disagree about what games should be like. Well, I think it's really more about you having a certain idea about what games should be like if they're designed in a certain way and me not caring as long as the execution is entertaining.

Again, you're incorrect. You need to grind to be able to improve your stats and keep up with the more powerful enemies in the game. Story progression has nothing to do with it. Stop confusing game design with story. Grinding solely exists to keep you up with the high stats and abilities of enemies in later loactions of the game. It has nothing to do with story progression.

In essence, if you were grinding for the sole aim of trying to reach the next story scene, it's no wonder you found the game boring. You're grinding for reasons that are not even gameplay related. That's like me watching a DVD and then having to "grind" by continually having to pause the  movie every 10 minutes to do some else completely unrelated. Grinding in done for gameplay reasons (leveling and stat advancement), not for plot progression. If you're solely grinding just to be able to reach the next story scene then FFXII was never the game for you. As I said, the gfame isn't flawed, it just doesn't cater to your personal tastes.

I was never incorrect to begin with, and other people have come here and posted they have had similar experiences. So, surely it wasnt just me.

Maybe you enjoyed other aspects of the game so much you didnt realise it. I know know, but i do know theres no choice here but to agree to disagree.