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Forums - General Discussion - Breaking News: George Zimmerman Found Not Guilty!

badgenome on 16 July 2013
bluesinG said:

Are you saying that Zimmerman stayed on the line with the police even after he got out of the car? I don't think that's true.

So I ask again, why do you think Zimmerman got out of his car? I think that he did it in order to confront Martin. (And, to clarify, by "confront," I don't mean "shoot" or "fight.")

Listen to the call. At about 2:30, he's clearly out of the car and on foot.



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timmah on 16 July 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:


If you listen to Trayvon's earwitness testimony and the recording from dispatch, he was in medium to close proximity to Trayvon when he was driving, to the point where Trayvon became cognisent and alerted his friend to the fact that he was being tailed. Outside of that we don't know what happened for sure until the fight was already initiated in slight parts where some say they saw Trayvon on top and some saw Zimmerman on top. The woman who could've been the only witness to the fight ran in the house to call 911. 

The ones that saw Zimmerman on top were after the gunshot, they did not see punching, but saw Zimmerman on top of Trayvon after the shooting. This corroborates Zimmerman's initial statement where he stated that, after he shot Trayvon, he got on top of him to restrain him so he wouldn't start beating him again. He didn't know at this point that he had actually shot Trayvon (according to his statements), he said he thought he missed and just scared him.



S.T.A.G.E. on 16 July 2013
timmah said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


If you listen to Trayvon's earwitness testimony and the recording from dispatch, he was in medium to close proximity to Trayvon when he was driving, to the point where Trayvon became cognisent and alerted his friend to the fact that he was being tailed. Outside of that we don't know what happened for sure until the fight was already initiated in slight parts where some say they saw Trayvon on top and some saw Zimmerman on top. The woman who could've been the only witness to the fight ran in the house to call 911. 

The ones that saw Zimmerman on top were after the gunshot, they did not see punching, but saw Zimmerman on top of Trayvon after the shooting. This corroborates Zimmerman's initial statement where he stated that, after he shot Trayvon, he got on top of him to restrain him so he wouldn't start beating him again. He didn't know at this point that he had actually shot Trayvon (according to his statements), he said he thought he missed and just scared him.

Yep, I know that, both sides corroborated Zimmermans story. I was telling that to some people who were jumping conclusions in a different post than this. Again, Zimmerman is the only one who has a side to tell. 

His testimony was that he spread his arms spread eagle, first responders said he he was not spread eagle, his arms were at his side. At that moment that he shot Trayvon the blood was filling up in his lungs after being shot through the heart. This makes me wonder how long he was talking to the cops since he was so he waved his own Miranda rights. They told him Trayvon was dead a little later.



timmah on 16 July 2013
badgenome said:
bluesinG said:

Are you saying that Zimmerman stayed on the line with the police even after he got out of the car? I don't think that's true.

So I ask again, why do you think Zimmerman got out of his car? I think that he did it in order to confront Martin. (And, to clarify, by "confront," I don't mean "shoot" or "fight.")

Listen to the call. At about 2:30, he's clearly out of the car and on foot.

You! Take your evidence and GTFO! LOL.



S.T.A.G.E. on 16 July 2013
Max King of the Wild said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


I don't know if I can say Zimmerman is guilty, but he's right where he said, "Zimmerman followed Martin in his car, called 911 who told him to stay in his car, ignored that advice, brought his gun out of his car.."

The rest has no evidence to back it up. We don't know who confronted who, so he's presuming there. 

Fact: If Zimmerman would've listened to the dispatch, the kid would be alive and Zimmerman could've gone on with his life. The cops would've circled the community searching for suspects.


Fact: you don't know the details either. Dispatch never told him to not get out of the car. They suggested to not follow trayvon. Zimmerman said okay. The dispatch said police are on their way do you want them to meet you when they get there. Zimmerman said yes have them call me so I can tell them where Im at


I never said I knew the details that would've created the fight sequence, but there obviously was a confrontation. If theres any uncorroborated evidence I haven't spoken about it. Theres no point in speaking about what you don't know or accepting testimony that has no facts to prove it unless its coming out of the mouth of a witness, not first party. 

Fact: Dispatch never told him outright not to follow, but the strongly suggested not to follow. (safety reasoning, most likely)

Fact: Zimmerman continued to follow.

Fact: Dispatch suggested him meeting place for him and a cop out in front (zimmerman suggested by the mailboxes), which again suggests to stop tailing the kid since the cops were on their way and wait for the authorities. (my guess was because they needed the profile and would need him near when circling the area)

Fact: Zimmerman agreed, and then continued to follow and went back on his word telling  the dispatch just to have the cops call him  since he was so desperate to catch the kid after he disappeared.



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timmah on 16 July 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Max King of the Wild said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Max King of the Wild said:
bluesinG said:
 

That's why, morally, I think Zimmerman is guilty.

Way to not even know the facts of the cases you are comparing. people like you should be ashamed


I don't know if I can say Zimmerman is guilty, but he's right where he said, "Zimmerman followed Martin in his car, called 911 who told him to stay in his car, ignored that advice, brought his gun out of his car.."

The rest has no evidence to back it up. We don't know who confronted who, so he's presuming there. 

Fact: If Zimmerman would've listened to the dispatch, the kid would be alive and Zimmerman could've gone on with his life. The cops would've circled the community searching for suspects.


Fact: you don't know the details either. Dispatch never told him to not get out of the car. They suggested to not follow trayvon. Zimmerman said okay. The dispatch said police are on their way do you want them to meet you when they get there. Zimmerman said yes have them call me so I can tell them where Im at


I never said I knew the details that would've created the fight sequence, but there obviously was a confrontation. If theres any uncorroborated evidence I haven't spoken about it. Theres no point in speaking about what you don't know or accepting testimony that has no facts to prove it unless its coming out of the mouth of a witness, not first party. 

Fact: Dispatch never told him not to follow, but the strongly suggested not to follow. 

Fact: Zimmerman said ok, and it sounded like he quickly stopped running at that point, then continued to get less winded through the call, suggesting he's either stationary or at the very least, not pursuing anybody.

Fact: Zimmerman continued to follow.

Nope, he'd lost Trayvon at this point, you can't follow what you can't see. There's no indication as to what Zimmerman was doing in the call, he was getting less and less winded, so he certainly wasn't pursuing anybody. He could just as easily have been standing on the sidewalk looking around while he talked to the dispatcher.

Fact: Dispatch suggested him meeting a cop out in front (zimmerman suggested by the mailboxes), which again suggests to stop tailing the kid since the cops were on their way. (my guess was because they needed the profile and would need him near when circling the area)

Fact: He can't be tailing somebody whom he doesn't know the whereabouts of.

Fact: Zimmerman agreed, and then continued to follow and went back on his word telling  the dispatch just to have the cops call him  since he was so desperate to catch the kid after he disappeared.

Fact: This is your opinion, nothing more. To play Devil's advocate, what if he was heading back to his truck to continue to drive around, and that's why he said 'have them call me'? He'd already lost Martin, so there's no following or 'tailing' possible here, that much is clear.

 





S.T.A.G.E. on 16 July 2013
timmah said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Max King of the Wild said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Max King of the Wild said:
bluesinG said:
 

 


Fact: you don't know the details either. Dispatch never told him to not get out of the car. They suggested to not follow trayvon. Zimmerman said okay. The dispatch said police are on their way do you want them to meet you when they get there. Zimmerman said yes have them call me so I can tell them where Im at


I never said I knew the details that would've created the fight sequence, but there obviously was a confrontation. If theres any uncorroborated evidence I haven't spoken about it. Theres no point in speaking about what you don't know or accepting testimony that has no facts to prove it unless its coming out of the mouth of a witness, not first party. 

Fact: Dispatch never told him not to follow, but the strongly suggested not to follow. 

Fact: Zimmerman said ok, and it sounded like he quickly stopped running at that point, then continued to get less winded through the call, suggesting he's either stationary or at the very least, not pursuing anybody.

-Of course he stopped running, his breathing was slightly labored but stopped since he didnt run far in the beginning and he was still walking in the direction while talking to the cops.

Fact: Zimmerman continued to follow.

Nope, he'd lost Trayvon at this point, you can't follow what you can't see. There's no indication as to what Zimmerman was doing in the call, he was getting less and less winded, so he certainly wasn't pursuing anybody. He could just as easily have been standing on the sidewalk looking around while he talked to the dispatcher.

-He did try to follow what he couldn't see which is why he told the cops to call him when they got there instead of meeting with them.

Fact: Dispatch suggested him meeting a cop out in front (zimmerman suggested by the mailboxes), which again suggests to stop tailing the kid since the cops were on their way. (my guess was because they needed the profile and would need him near when circling the area)

Fact: He can't be tailing somebody whom he doesn't know the whereabouts of.

-Are you kidding me? He lost the kid but he gave chase which is detailed by the wind on the phonecall.

Fact: Zimmerman agreed, and then continued to follow and went back on his word telling  the dispatch just to have the cops call him  since he was so desperate to catch the kid after he disappeared.

Fact: This is your opinion, nothing more. To play Devil's advocate, what if he was heading back to his truck to continue to drive around, and that's why he said 'have them call me'? He'd already lost Martin, so there's no following or 'tailing' possible here, that much is clear.

-This is not my opinion, listen to the tape. Zimmerman told the dispatch to call him when the cop gets there after he lost travyon and the call was coming to a close. His was preoccupied trying to find the kid. He had lost Trayvon and needed to continue his pursuit. If he was adhering to the meeting point he would've made for the mailbox as he detailed to the cop earlier. In that specific sentence I never said he was tailing him. When Zimmerman lost him he couldn't have tailed him so he continued to search. You hear it in zimmermans voice. Pay attention to the emotions he gets slightly aggrivated that he lost him and tells the cops just to call him instead.

 



Zimmerman call (w/ timestamps and notes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BI03-MRKnI



timmah on 16 July 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:
timmah said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


I never said I knew the details that would've created the fight sequence, but there obviously was a confrontation. If theres any uncorroborated evidence I haven't spoken about it. Theres no point in speaking about what you don't know or accepting testimony that has no facts to prove it unless its coming out of the mouth of a witness, not first party. 

Fact: Dispatch never told him not to follow, but the strongly suggested not to follow. 

Fact: Zimmerman said ok, and it sounded like he quickly stopped running at that point, then continued to get less winded through the call, suggesting he's either stationary or at the very least, not pursuing anybody.

-Of course he stopped running, his breathing was labored and he was still walking in the direction while talking to the cops.

Fact: Zimmerman continued to follow.

Nope, he'd lost Trayvon at this point, you can't follow what you can't see. There's no indication as to what Zimmerman was doing in the call, he was getting less and less winded, so he certainly wasn't pursuing anybody. He could just as easily have been standing on the sidewalk looking around while he talked to the dispatcher.

-He did try to follow what he couldn't see which is why he told the cops to call him when they got there instead of meeting with them.

Fact: Dispatch suggested him meeting a cop out in front (zimmerman suggested by the mailboxes), which again suggests to stop tailing the kid since the cops were on their way. (my guess was because they needed the profile and would need him near when circling the area)

Fact: He can't be tailing somebody whom he doesn't know the whereabouts of.

-Are you kidding me? He lost the kid but he gave chase which is detailed by the wind on the phonecall.

Fact: Zimmerman agreed, and then continued to follow and went back on his word telling  the dispatch just to have the cops call him  since he was so desperate to catch the kid after he disappeared.

Fact: This is your opinion, nothing more. To play Devil's advocate, what if he was heading back to his truck to continue to drive around, and that's why he said 'have them call me'? He'd already lost Martin, so there's no following or 'tailing' possible here, that much is clear.

-This is not my opinion, listen to the tape. Zimmerman told the dispatch to call him when the cop gets there after he lost travyon and the call was coming to a close. His was preoccupied trying to find the kid. He had lost Trayvon and needed to continue his pursuit. If he was adhering to the meeting point he would've made for the mailbox as he detailed to the cop earlier. In that specific sentence I never said he was tailing him. When Zimmerman lost him he couldn't have tailed him so he continued to search. You hear it in zimmermans voice. Pay attention to the emotions.

 



Zimmerman call (w/ timestamps and notes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BI03-MRKnI

He was only about 180 feet from his truck at the time of the incident, so the whole 'pursuit' thing really doesn't hold water against reasonable doubt. Literally everything you posted is 100% pure conjecture. Zimmerman was supposedly in the same general area for most of the call, about 180 feet or so from his truck. It's fuzzy between when he got off the call and when the altercation occured, but there's no hard evidence for the so-called facts you just posted. Trayvon's house was literally just a couple hundred feet away, so he could have EASILY gotten home during the 4 minutes when Zimmerman couldn't see him, and Zimmerman could have easily gotten back to his truck as well. It sounds like both stayed in the area, but only 1 was looking for a fight.



There are two possibilities based on the location of the incident being so close to the truck.

1- Zimmerman had pursued further, and was headed back when confronted

2- Zimmerman had stayed in the same area during and shortly after the call to keep on the lookout for Trayvon before the attack, meaning not much 'pursuit' took place at all.

Either way, Trayvon was most likely the agressor at the time of the incident.



S.T.A.G.E. on 16 July 2013
timmah said:

He was only about 180 feet from his truck at the time of the incident, so the whole 'pursuit' thing really doesn't hold water against reasonable doubt. Literally everything you posted is 100% pure conjecture. Zimmerman was supposedly in the same general area for most of the call, about 180 feet or so from his truck. It's fuzzy between when he got off the call and when the altercation occured, but there's no hard evidence for the so-called facts you just posted. Trayvon's house was literally just a couple hundred feet away, so he could have EASILY gotten home during the 4 minutes when Zimmerman couldn't see him, and Zimmerman could have easily gotten back to his truck as well. It sounds like both stayed in the area, but only 1 was looking for a fight.


I never once denied that Trayvon could've confronted Zimmerman, but I never brought it up since no one witnessed it. Im only going based on facts based on the tape. Zimmerman had to change the meeding events of the call because he was aggrivated that he lost trayvon. Its quite evident and the timestamp even mentions it where zimmerman tells the cop just to call him instead of parking himself right by his mailbox where he was initially to meet the cops. I stated he was innocent of second degree murder, but its quite evident by the way he was desperate to end the call. I am not talking about what happened after the call leading to the final confrontation either. 

This is a redstate/blue state issue and the laws that apply to both. In some states some things are acceptable and in some other stays something are not. Anyway, this is the last time I'll be talking about this for today, because its been a waste of quite of time (not talking about you, but the situation isnt worry staying idle). Have a good one.

 

Good Lord, watch your quote trees - Kresnik.



timmah on 16 July 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:
timmah said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Zimmerman call (w/ timestamps and notes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BI03-MRKnI

He was only about 180 feet from his truck at the time of the incident, so the whole 'pursuit' thing really doesn't hold water against reasonable doubt. Literally everything you posted is 100% pure conjecture. Zimmerman was supposedly in the same general area for most of the call, about 180 feet or so from his truck. It's fuzzy between when he got off the call and when the altercation occured, but there's no hard evidence for the so-called facts you just posted. Trayvon's house was literally just a couple hundred feet away, so he could have EASILY gotten home during the 4 minutes when Zimmerman couldn't see him, and Zimmerman could have easily gotten back to his truck as well. It sounds like both stayed in the area, but only 1 was looking for a fight.


I never once denied that Trayvon could've confronted Zimmerman, but I never brought it up since no one witnessed it. Im only going based on facts based on the tape. Zimmerman had to change the meeding events of the call because he was aggrivated that he lost trayvon. Its quite evident and the timestamp even mentions it where zimmerman tells the cop just to call him instead of parking himself right by his mailbox where he was initially to meet the cops. I stated he was innocent of second degree murder, but its quite evident by the way he was desperate to end the call. I am not talking about what happened after the call leading to the final confrontation either. 

This is a redstate/blue state issue and the laws that apply to both. In some states some things are acceptable and in some other stays something are not. Anyway, this is the last time I'll be talking about this for today, because its been a waste of quite of time (not talking about you, but the situation isnt worry staying idle). Have a good one.

Honestly, my impression from the tape was that Zimmerman was kind of a dumbass and was not able to give any good info to the dispatcher about where he was in relation to an address or good landmark, so that was why he wanted the cops to call him for location (he could get his bearings and get an actual address when back on the street). He was clearly terrible with giving directions, LOL! He never actually gave a good set of directions to his location for the entire call, it sounded like the dispatcher was a little frustrated by that at times.

You have a good one as well. You've at least been reasonable even if we disagree.