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Forums - General Discussion - George Zimmerman Trial

Veracity on 03 July 2013
J_Allard said:
Veracity said:

Hahahahahahahahaha lol turn off propaganda news for retards and watch the trial. Thre is no evidence at all of Zimmerman instigating a fight. He followed and reported until he lost trayvon in the dark. There are no wounds on trayvon except the bullet hole. So your stupid ass assumption is flawed completely.

must be some delicious koolaid!

I gotta say it's adorable the way that you're so emotionally invested in this case, you cannot formulate a reply without catching feelings and throwing around insults. Might I make a couple suggestions?

1. Grow the fuck up.
2. Detach yourself from this case for awhile, decompress, and maybe you'll stop getting so emotional over it.

I just don't even know how to respond to someone actually trying to say there is no evidence that Zimmerman instigated a fight. He was following the kid around, even after he was told not to by 911. It's amazing to me that some people are willing to say that a couple small, insignificant, not life-threatening wounds on Zimmerman is justification for shooting someone with a gun. And yet, a stranger stalking you in the night is not justification for confronting that person and finding out why they are following you.

Like I already said, Zimmerman is a multiple time flunk out of police academy, patrolling his streets armed looking to hand out justice regardless of what the police or the home owners group and their neighborhood watch guidelines say. Maybe some of you are ok letting your kids out with murderers like that on the streets. I on the other hand am glad I am in a neighborhood without that type of psycho. Gods fucking plan. He actually said in a Hannity interview that he would do NOTHING different that night and it was all God's plan. This is the type of idiot you're defending. Again, sad to see. And there's no point in me wasting another second of my time discussing this here with the likes of you or the others. Toodles :)

Haha what a pile of garbage. Following someone is not instigating a fight. Swinging a punch or punching someone is. That's called assault. Wrong about 911, 911 was not called by Zimmerman. Wrong again llol pretty cute how you lie to say Zimmerman was wrong to use deadly force. 

Lol so funny



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attaboy on 03 July 2013

The problem we have here is that only one person is alive to tell the story and, as dumb as he is, Zimmerman is not a dumb man.  Between the time that the 911 call ended, multiple things could have happened.  Martin could have thought "I don't want to lead this creepy guy back to my house." or Zimmerman could have said "Stop hiding, I have a gun."  Zimmerman may have been in fear for his life but we have no way of ever knowing if Martin was in fear for his life.  That, of course, is speculation.  We could speculate all day long but the case will be decided by facts.  Many of the facts, we just do not have.

Truth is, we will NEVER know for sure.  And that's why Zimmerman is going to go free.  It's better to let a guilty man go free than to lock up an innocent man, right?  Zimmerman may be as innocent as a newborn baby on Christmas morning or guilty as sin.  With cases like OJ Simpson or Casey Anthony where there is an overwhelming amount of evidence and the defendant still went free, what do you honestly think will happen here?

What we do know is this:  George Zimmerman DID create a situation where a kid wound up dead.  His heart may have been in the right place but his lack of experience and common sense led to him killing another person.  Not a good person, bad person, black person, or any other label we attach.  George Zimmerman killed someone because of George Zimmerman's actions.  That's not murder, though.



Veracity on 03 July 2013
attaboy said:

The problem we have here is that only one person is alive to tell the story and, as dumb as he is, Zimmerman is not a dumb man.  Between the time that the 911 call ended, multiple things could have happened.  Martin could have thought "I don't want to lead this creepy guy back to my house." or Zimmerman could have said "Stop hiding, I have a gun."  Zimmerman may have been in fear for his life but we have no way of ever knowing if Martin was in fear for his life.  That, of course, is speculation.  We could speculate all day long but the case will be decided by facts.  Many of the facts, we just do not have.

Truth is, we will NEVER know for sure.  And that's why Zimmerman is going to go free.  It's better to let a guilty man go free than to lock up an innocent man, right?  Zimmerman may be as innocent as a newborn baby on Christmas morning or guilty as sin.  With cases like OJ Simpson or Casey Anthony where there is an overwhelming amount of evidence and the defendant still went free, what do you honestly think will happen here?

What we do know is this:  George Zimmerman DID create a situation where a kid wound up dead.  His heart may have been in the right place but his lack of experience and common sense led to him killing another person.  Not a good person, bad person, black person, or any other label we attach.  George Zimmerman killed someone because of George Zimmerman's actions.  That's not murder, though.

Nope Zimmerman did not escalate the situation. Trayvon Martin did. He stopped moving toward the place he was staying, walked back toward Zimmerman, and punched him in the face. 



attaboy on 03 July 2013
Veracity said:
attaboy said:

The problem we have here is that only one person is alive to tell the story and, as dumb as he is, Zimmerman is not a dumb man.  Between the time that the 911 call ended, multiple things could have happened.  Martin could have thought "I don't want to lead this creepy guy back to my house." or Zimmerman could have said "Stop hiding, I have a gun."  Zimmerman may have been in fear for his life but we have no way of ever knowing if Martin was in fear for his life.  That, of course, is speculation.  We could speculate all day long but the case will be decided by facts.  Many of the facts, we just do not have.

Truth is, we will NEVER know for sure.  And that's why Zimmerman is going to go free.  It's better to let a guilty man go free than to lock up an innocent man, right?  Zimmerman may be as innocent as a newborn baby on Christmas morning or guilty as sin.  With cases like OJ Simpson or Casey Anthony where there is an overwhelming amount of evidence and the defendant still went free, what do you honestly think will happen here?

What we do know is this:  George Zimmerman DID create a situation where a kid wound up dead.  His heart may have been in the right place but his lack of experience and common sense led to him killing another person.  Not a good person, bad person, black person, or any other label we attach.  George Zimmerman killed someone because of George Zimmerman's actions.  That's not murder, though.

Nope Zimmerman did not escalate the situation. Trayvon Martin did. He stopped moving toward the place he was staying, walked back toward Zimmerman, and punched him in the face. 


Did I say he escalated the situation?  No.  He created the situation.  We don't know who escalated the situation.  You weren't there.  None of us were.  I've been reading your posts and you assume a lot.  Some people (including me) are letting the evidence sway their opinion on the case.  I was one of those manipulated by the bias media coverage and portrayal of Martin vs Zimmerman.  As the facts come out, I'm forming my own opinion.  You, on the other hand, seem to have had your mind made up from day one.

And that's not to say you were wrong.  There's a pretty decent chance that you are right but you say these things with 100% certainty and an obvious bias.  While we may eventually reach the same conclusion that Zimmerman is innocent, I don't agree with the way you appear to have reached yours.  It's too easy to overlook Zimmerman's history of obstruction, and domestic violence and emphasize Martin's "gangster pics" and expulsion from school, isn't it?



badgenome on 03 July 2013
haxxiy said:

The "stand your ground" laws in Florida say you can use deadly force to prevent great bodily harm. It doesn’t say you have to suffer great bodily harm or "life threatening injuries" before you shoot your attacker. On the other hand, although it can be situations where someone is forced to do so, there's no legal justification to attack someone because you think they might be following you. Any harm that is intended to be prevented from laws like the aforementioned one are still too distant to justify agressive behaviour.

As much as this has been flogged as a "stand your ground" case, it isn't one. Zimmerman's attorneys aren't using a "stand your ground" defense because it simply doesn't apply in this situation. His story is that he was pinned down, so he had no ability to retreat, let alone the responsibility to do so. It's just a simple self defense claim.

You're right, though. I can't wrap my head around the claim that Martin was somehow justified in attacking Zimmerman for simply following him (which, as far as we know, is all he did), but Zimmerman was wrong to defend himself with lethal force if he truly felt his life was in danger. Even if he overreacted, it's clearly not murder. That's where the state blew it, and I think the fallout of Zimmerman walking is going to be seriously ugly.



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attaboy on 03 July 2013
badgenome said:
haxxiy said:

The "stand your ground" laws in Florida say you can use deadly force to prevent great bodily harm. It doesn’t say you have to suffer great bodily harm or "life threatening injuries" before you shoot your attacker. On the other hand, although it can be situations where someone is forced to do so, there's no legal justification to attack someone because you think they might be following you. Any harm that is intended to be prevented from laws like the aforementioned one are still too distant to justify agressive behaviour.

As much as this has been flogged as a "stand your ground" case, it isn't one. Zimmerman's attorneys aren't using a "stand your ground" defense because it simply doesn't apply in this situation. His story is that he was pinned down, so he had no ability to retreat, let alone the responsibility to do so. It's just a simple self defense claim.

You're right, though. I can't wrap my head around the claim that Martin was somehow justified in attacking Zimmerman for simply following him (which, as far as we know, is all he did), but Zimmerman was wrong to defend himself with lethal force if he truly felt his life was in danger. Even if he overreacted, it's clearly not murder. That's where the state blew it, and I think the fallout of Zimmerman walking is going to be seriously ugly.


I don't think the fallout is going to be that bad, honestly.  At least not among people that have actually taken the time to study the case.  You'll always have those that form their opinion based on a headline and never bother to dig any deeper.  I wouldn't worry about them, though.  They'll be outraged and then move on.



silentdj151 on 03 July 2013
Veracity said:
J_Allard said:
killerzX said:
J_Allard said:
I think the state went way overboard with the charges and because of that, Zimmerman might walk.

Such a shame that a dude can arm himself, stalk a kid, provoke a fight and kill him when he loses said fight, and because of shitty, shoddy police work, will likely get away with it. At least criminally. His life is already ruined either way and I would expect the TM family to win a civil suit down the line.

i swear if this has got to be like the 10 person in this thread alone to just ignore the facts of this case. thats not what happened at all.

lets see, zimmerman is legally allowed to possess a weapon, he was suspicous of an unkown, shady looking person, in a place where there has been a rash of crime, then after loosing track of martin, martin then confronted zimmerman and proceeded to smash zimmermans head into the pavement, to which zimmerman responded by shooting his assailant. 

all the evidence is pointing to zimmerman not committing any crime

Can you please point to the part of my post where I said or even implied that it is against the law for Zimmerman to carry a weapon?

Zimmerman was the instigator and aggressor in the situation. You know how he could have saved himself a lot of trouble and money, not to mention a kid his life? Just roll up on TM and ask him what he is doing. You know, like normal people do. Instead of slowly creeping on him and essentially stalking him. And how about when he was told by 911 dispatch not to follow Martin, why not comply?

You have a situation where a guy who has failed out of police academy multiple times, being jaded by recent robberies in his area and "fucking punks" always getting away with it, getting fed up when told by dispatch to wait for the real police to show up and decided to take matters in his own hands. You have your panties in a wad over whether or not it's a crime for Zimmerman to carry a gun, here is what Trayvon is guilt of that night:

Being out at night
Confronting someone stalking him

And please, LOL @ his head being "smashed into the pavement". And yet only minutes later when medics arrived, his devastating, life-threatening wounds were not even bleeding, and all he had was a slightly bloody nose and a couple of small lacerations on his head (which could have come from a rock in the grass or many other things). No blood on the sidewalk, no serious wounds for Zimmerman. Also, Zimmerman trained multiple times a week, MMA style. You'd think he could get a kid off of him but meh, I guess the easier course of action when getting your ass kicked in a fight you started is to just shoot the kid.

Like I said, a shame. An even bigger shame that people are defending the piece of shit. Oh well.


Hahahahahahahahaha lol turn off propaganda news for retards and watch the trial. Thre is no evidence at all of Zimmerman instigating a fight. He followed and reported until he lost trayvon in the dark. There are no wounds on trayvon except the bullet hole. So your stupid ass assumption is flawed completely.

must be some delicious koolaid!

Seems like people are introducing their prejudices into the case:

Prejudices:

For Defense of Zimmerman:

Martin: thug deserved to die, because there is no way he could have been defending himself or feared for his life. 

Zimmerman: Upstanding citizen did no wrong, feared for his life...with superficial wounds.

FACTS

Martin: MINOR, walking home with candy and tea.  Noticing someone following him tries to hide  and is confronted by adult he does not know (after this point we do not know who gets assaulted first) minor dead after an assault occurs.

Martin: Forensics evidence shows that injuries are bullet to chest and some lacerations to left hand.

Zimmerman:  Superficial wounds to the face and head. Shot and killed a  minor after an assault occured.

Scenario 1

We do not know how the assault occurs unless you believe george zimmerman, if thats the case then he is guilty of manslaughter, because the superficial wounds do not merit him using lethal force.

Scenario 2

Lets say zimmerman is lying: he approaches a minor who is hiding in a bush, as soon as, the adult (zimmerman) makes any physical contact(attempts a punch and misses, does a takedown and ends up in guard[on the bottom]) or verbally threatens the minor, the minor would be able to defend himself, all bets are off zimmerman guilty.  

I am leaning towards Scenario 2, I think Zimmerman is lying.

 

 

 

 

 



dallas on 03 July 2013

The prosecution has basically shown zimmerman to be a liar in several ways today--- Martin's fingerprints weren't on the gun, his DNA wasn't on the gun..... stories given by zimmerman dont match up, etc.

Hell, if I was in his shoes i'd be lying my ass off so I dont blame him for that, but regardless he seems full of shit.



killerzX on 03 July 2013
dallas said:
The prosecution has basically shown zimmerman to be a liar in several ways today--- Martin's fingerprints weren't on the gun, his DNA wasn't on the gun..... stories given by zimmerman dont match up, etc.

Hell, if I was in his shoes i'd be lying my ass off so I dont blame him for that, but regardless he seems full of shit.

im not sure if you are watching/following the same case as the rest of us are



enditall727 on 03 July 2013
Areym said:
enditall727 said:
Areym said:
The way I see the confrontation, based on everything that I have heard is that GZ was following Trayvon because GZ though he looked suspicious. Whether he was stereotyping Trayvon or not, is somewhat irrelevant and from the recent pictures you can find of Trayvon, he looked like a fucking thug so GZ wasn't too far off. He also appeared to have past problems with violence/weed/etc, I can't say how true it is but his pictures seem to validate his thug-like behaviour. Trayvon's father was apparently a member of a gang in his past, crips from what I have heard but I can't say how true that is.

Anyways, GZ confronts Trayvon, asking him about what he was doing, where was he headed and the likes. At some point, Trayvon attacks GZ and pins him to the ground. Trayvon then proceed to slam GZ head into the pavements so GZ activates the "stand your ground" law and uses his gun in self defense and that is the end of the story. There are pictures of GZ's head being wounded and with a broken nose, although I'm not sure what happened to that piece of evidence.

In my opinion, GZ did kill Trayvon obviously, but he did so in self defense. While GZ probably should not have confronted Trayvon openly, he did not begin a physical confrontation, it was all Trayvon. Trayvon did not need to die that day but his own actions caused his own death. I know Eminem said something that perfectly described Trayvon's downfall but I can't find it. All Trayvon had to do was speak in a rational manner, show GZ he had no intentions of committing any cry and walk away. I assume Trayvon was filled with both anger and fear of being followed but there would be no reason to attack GZ unless he was threatening him physically.

I think GZ will walk and who knows what will happen then. I like to think that people will not get up in arms about the verdict, that we will calm accept or appeal or whatever legal action can be taken if Tray's parent feel that there is some injustice.

Well you have to remember that anything that happened AFTER that night is irrelevant. So the thug thing is really irrelevant

Zimmerman didn't know his twitter or background so he had to go by what he saw that night

Here is a link to what Trayvon Martin had on the night he was killed --> http://cdn.mediatakeout.com/63599/mto-super-world-exclusive-we-ve-got-the-trayvon-martin-death-pics-the-poor-boy-was-gunned-down-in-cold-blood.html

I dont see how he looked like a thug that night. He said that he was cutting through houses and it made me think about myself and all the people that i know. We used to cut through houses all the fucking time lol

So in that earlier vid, it seemed like he was saying that he was pretty much just keeping an eye on him and then he got on the phone, Trayvon came up and asked "what's your problem" then Trayvon broke his nose and tried to kill Zimmerman

But what happened with all that other stuff though like him asking Zimmerman "why are you following me?" while he was still on the phone with that girl or whatever. 

And the thing about Trayvon creeping aroind the bushes or dark area surprising Zimmerman. idk this seems weird. I feel like something happened when they confronted eachother that we dont know. I still feel like Trayvon should've kept walking home though

Edit: i think i'm done

I will agree that zimmerman should have left it at that. There really was no need for him to follow him any further. It was also a stupid move on Trayvon's part to assault Zimmerman, assuming Trayvon is the one who started the PHYSICAL confrontation which is what I believe happened. Had any of them walked away from the situation, nobody would have died and neither deserved to die that night.

Also, I believe that picture is quite old.  If the media used this picture as often as his younger (white hoodie/ red hollister shirt) pictures:

things might be a bit more skewed. Some of the more recent pictures like this one show that Trayvon is not necesarily the hoodied-saint that he is being described. GZ could also be kinda racist, I don't know. It would seemslike he was being overly suspicious of Trayvon because he was black but i don't know.

That's one way to do it. Put Zimmermans most professional suit wearing picture of him smiling against Trayvons least professonal pictures.

 

You have to stop focusing on this thug thing and pay more attention to what happened that night. I'll agree that it definitely doesn't help hixhis image though

 

I also believe that Zimmerman is not a saint. I'm not just going to justify him being killed because he was flicking off the camera in a picture. The boxers showing is aggravating but it wasn't like thaythat in all his pictures and he was young and had time to grow as a human being. Now we have Zimmerman who killed a kid for what? Because he thought the Kid was going rob a house after he came from the store with candy and some tea.

 

I honestly dont believe that Trayvon just blindly attacked Zimmerman. There was something that happened there that we dont know about and we wont know because we onlyonly have Zimmermans side of the story.

 

Im thinking that they both eventually started mouthing off to each other and then it escalated from there. I feel like Zimmerman HAD to do something to make Trayvon hit him.

 

But we will never know. That's the benefit of having a DEAD witness.

 

I don't believe that his original intentions were to kill Ttayvon though. I think they both reacted poorly and it got to a point where Zimmerman shot Trayvon.

 

I'm not sure if he should get life but he should get SOME type of time

 

I live in Florida and i see this type of stuff all the time. NEITHER of the sides are saints usually