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Forums - Microsoft - Cloud Computing - Xbox One developers team up with NASA to simulate 35 thousand light years of space

radha on 18 June 2013
Machiavellian said:
Birimbau said:
I really want to see cloud computing improving games graphically, it is the solution to the problem of the lack of upgrade on consoles.

I wonder if people know that Azure is what Pixar uses as their render farm for their movies.  Yes, Pixar RenderMan is in the cloud and anybody can use it.  Here is a link that talk about the setup

http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/2010/10/28/pdc-why-steve-jobs-pixar-uses-microsoft-windows-azure/

People have used Azure for raytrace work and Azure is very capable of doing such things for games as well.  The problem is bandwidth which is always the issue.  MS could easily do what Gaikai does and re-render scenes using raytrace techniques and stream that video content to the user just like Giakai.  This is probably one of the differences between cloud computing and what Giakai does.  Gaikai can only stteam a game the way the game was created while MS cloud compute can actually plug into the games graphics pipline and use different rendering techniques to give a far better graphical output.

For people who are doubting this, a few google searches should ease your mind.


"MS cloud compute can actually plug into the games graphics pipline"  complely untrue, imposible currently. You are stating as fact something that is only your speculation, To do that would require GBps transfer speeds.

 

Your pixal example is not valid since that is not real time rendering.



dd if = /dev/brain | tail -f | grep games | nc -lnvvp 80

Hey Listen!

https://archive.org/details/kohina_radio_music_collection

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psrock on 18 June 2013

Is it confirmed that its going to be free to all devs?



 Next Gen 

11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
Slimebeast on 18 June 2013
ethomaz said:

My Work Machine to Google Severs: 130ms (Google is the fastest server response I have here... but it is not a dedicated gaming server)

I don't have the Azure IP server do make test but Digital Foundry stated that anything bigger than 100ms won't work for gaming cloud and I agree.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming

And I will added to graphic processing they will need something below 50-40ms... that's almost impossible with the actual world network infrastructure.

For a comparison... the Killzone 3 controlls lateny is 6ms (the time you command in controller leaves to be processed by console in a offline simple-player campaing).

3) Like I said the World Internet Network doesn't support 1080p@60fps streaming for games... and the NetFlix uses a high compacted video that at the end the quality of 1080p is worst than a 720p offline video (or even worst)... five a look at the YouTube 1080p quality... for games you need better quality after all... so the streaming is way more massive (more data transfered by second).

Your posts are so funny.

High lateny or not, I love to command in my controller! Especially in simple-player campaings.



Slimebeast on 18 June 2013
disolitude said:
Slimebeast said:

No.

Milo was a proof of concept about possibly cool stuff working with an actual product (kinect).

This 35 light years space sim is a proof of concept about possibly cool stuff working with an actual product (cloud).

Don't tell me you are buying into the hype twice?


Space sim with Xbox One = proof of concept

Games utilizing cloud computing  = true since the 1990s

Microsoft Azure being one the best cloud services available = true

Xbox One offering free Azure based cloud computing for all Xbox one devs = fact

Devs utilizing cloud computing on Xbox one in games being released this year = fact

I am not sure what hype there is to buy. 

So it only gets worse. If games have been utilizing cloud computing since the freaking 90's, but we as gamers evidently don't feel any important results from it, then what else is this Microsoft cloud computing talk than empty marketing words without any tangible effect on the ground?



ethomaz on 18 June 2013

Slimebeast said:

Your posts are so funny.

High lateny or not, I love to command in my controller! Especially in simple-player campaings.

lol latency



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radha on 18 June 2013
ethomaz said:
The latency of Cloud is the biggest issue for the games tasks...

What you can do in Cloud for games (some example to understand):

+ AI non-reactive (any AI calc not interfered by real-time actions with immediate response... aka AI not processed between frame sequences... eg. AI in RTS games)
+ Open World climate/environment variations (eg. environmental lighting, rain, wind, etc)

What you can do in Cloud for games (some example to understand):

- Any type of graphic/render task (well every frame a frame processing)
- AI reactive (any type of AI that have reactive changes in milliseconds)
- Gameplay physics (there are little exceptions)

There are lot of more example... in any case little processing can be made on Cloud for games even so you need to have a backup in console in the case of internet issues in the middle of gameplay.

A good example are the MMOs... they are all Cloud based... and every MMO player here knows all the problems that happened with low latency and internet issues.

MS is trying to make all your offline experience like a MMO experience... SinCity was the latest example of a offline game using Cloud processing

FINALLY, you are the first person i see that knows what cloud computer is and can and can not do. Im amaze by how many people think that cloud computing can improve graphics. Is insane and MS is capitalizin on the ignorance.

Edit: after reading carefully, this ones do not apply doe to latency

- Any type of graphic/render task (well every frame a frame processing)
- AI reactive (any type of AI that have reactive changes in milliseconds)

you cant do any kind of post processing in the cloud and not particles stuff



dd if = /dev/brain | tail -f | grep games | nc -lnvvp 80

Hey Listen!

https://archive.org/details/kohina_radio_music_collection

disolitude on 18 June 2013
Slimebeast said:
disolitude said:
Slimebeast said:

No.

Milo was a proof of concept about possibly cool stuff working with an actual product (kinect).

This 35 light years space sim is a proof of concept about possibly cool stuff working with an actual product (cloud).

Don't tell me you are buying into the hype twice?


Space sim with Xbox One = proof of concept

Games utilizing cloud computing  = true since the 1990s

Microsoft Azure being one the best cloud services available = true

Xbox One offering free Azure based cloud computing for all Xbox one devs = fact

Devs utilizing cloud computing on Xbox one in games being released this year = fact

I am not sure what hype there is to buy. 

So it only gets worse. If games have been utilizing cloud computing since the freaking 90's, but we as gamers evidently don't feel any important results from it, then what else is this Microsoft cloud computing talk than empty marketing words without any tangible effect on the ground?


1. Its never been utilized on this scale with the type of cloud computing performance currently achievable by Azure

2. Internet is a lot faster today than in the 1990s.

3. Xbox One is designed with cloud computing in mind. According to the article it checks 500,000 times per second for cloud updates

Seriously though, Quake 3 bots used servers to calculate their AI. This idea isn't anything new. What is new is scale and design around it.

Also the fact its offered to everyone at no cost makes it the staus quo on the Xbox One side. Not so much on the Sony's end where a company like EA is still going to have to run their own servers, and shut them down when games arent popular...and not utilize the cloud whenever absolutely necessary in order to save cost. 



teigaga on 18 June 2013
sniper989 said:
teigaga said:
sniper989 said:
PS4 can also use cloud computing though, can't it?

Doubt it could be used in many games, though, as PS4 does not require an internet connection.

That shouldn't really matter. Xbone only requires people to authenticate once a day, not for them to remain online 24/7. Even with the ps3, the system logs online automatically.


you NEED an internet connection to use the xbox one though, without one you cant even play games

Still doesn't make a diifference. You need an internet connection if you're going to Planetside 2, FFXIV, Warframe, elderscrolls online and Blacklight retribution on PS4. The assumption is 95% of PS4 owners will have internet, developers will not hold back features because having internet is not mandatory on the ps4.



Slimebeast on 18 June 2013
disolitude said:
Slimebeast said:
disolitude said:
Slimebeast said:

No.

Milo was a proof of concept about possibly cool stuff working with an actual product (kinect).

This 35 light years space sim is a proof of concept about possibly cool stuff working with an actual product (cloud).

Don't tell me you are buying into the hype twice?


Space sim with Xbox One = proof of concept

Games utilizing cloud computing  = true since the 1990s

Microsoft Azure being one the best cloud services available = true

Xbox One offering free Azure based cloud computing for all Xbox one devs = fact

Devs utilizing cloud computing on Xbox one in games being released this year = fact

I am not sure what hype there is to buy. 

So it only gets worse. If games have been utilizing cloud computing since the freaking 90's, but we as gamers evidently don't feel any important results from it, then what else is this Microsoft cloud computing talk than empty marketing words without any tangible effect on the ground?


1. Its never been utilized on this scale with the type of cloud computing performance currently achievable by Azure

2. Internet is a lot faster today than in the 1990s.

3. Xbox One is designed with cloud computing in mind. According to the article it checks 500,000 times per second for cloud updates

Seriously though, Quake 3 bots used servers to calculate their AI. This idea isn't anything new. What is new is scale and design around it.

Also the fact its offered to everyone at no cost makes it the staus quo on the Xbox One side. Not so much on the Sony's end where a company like EA is still going to have to run their own servers, and shut them down when games arent popular...and not utilize the cloud whenever absolutely necessary in order to save cost. 

Why would it check that often? It doesn't make any sense to spam the internet connection with 500k calls per second, not when latency issues are in the 100's of milliseconds. I smell BS.

I could believe 500 calls per second, not 500,000. Isn't that speed almost as fast as the CPU cycle? I call total BS.

You believe in cloud computing with Xbone making a difference in games. I hope it is true but I just can't believe in it. I am tired of heaing promises and wishes without proof.



disolitude on 18 June 2013
Slimebeast said:
disolitude said:


1. Its never been utilized on this scale with the type of cloud computing performance currently achievable by Azure

2. Internet is a lot faster today than in the 1990s.

3. Xbox One is designed with cloud computing in mind. According to the article it checks 500,000 times per second for cloud updates

Seriously though, Quake 3 bots used servers to calculate their AI. This idea isn't anything new. What is new is scale and design around it.

Also the fact its offered to everyone at no cost makes it the staus quo on the Xbox One side. Not so much on the Sony's end where a company like EA is still going to have to run their own servers, and shut them down when games arent popular...and not utilize the cloud whenever absolutely necessary in order to save cost. 

Why would it check that often? It doesn't make any sense to spam the internet connection with 500k calls per second, not when latency issues are in the 100's of milliseconds. I smell BS.

I could believe 500 calls per second, not 500,000. Isn't that speed almost as fast as the CPU cycle? I call total BS.

You believe in cloud computing with Xbone making a difference in games. I hope it is true but I just can't believe in it. I am tired of heaing promises and wishes without proof.

I don't know why it would check 500K times. And it does seem a little high...but the article says so. 

I personally don't think it will revolutionize gaming graphics, but that we may see more complex things like 10,000 zombies on screen in Dead Rising 3 all with a different AI behaviour. Little things like that it will change, not sure if that will be revolutionaryor not...

In terms of this being BS, looking at Microsofts track record, they usually deliver what they promise.

Sony tends to overpromise... Remember when PS2 was supposed to have CGI graphics equal to Toy Story? Or when PS3 was supposed to be more powerful than supercomputers with best GPUs. Or when PS3 was supposed to have 2 HDMI outs and support dual screns thanks to the awesome power of the cell.  Killzone 2 anyone...etc