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Forums - Sony - For those with your head in the sand (PS4 DRM)

Max King of the Wild on 08 June 2013
slowmo said:e how every negative XBO rumour must be true yet every negative Sony rumour must be false. How about instead of telling everyone to not comment on rumours you actually all practice what you preach. The PS4 will have DRM just like the 360 and PS3 do, the question will be how restrictive the policies are. I think some of you need to learn what DRM actually means.


Theres your paranoia going again. First off the negative ms rumors have been confirmed by ms. Secondly those negative sony rumors come from nothing but hopeful wishes from people who dont want xone to be the only one with those policies. Last.... i have strictly talked about ps4 in op and dont care what ms is doing



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Max King of the Wild on 08 June 2013
papamudd said:
tuscaniman99 6 minutes ago
First party games will have an online pass built into the system. When it comes to third party such as EA, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. you will have to connect online to play the game. If you don't have the internet you will not be able to play COD, Battlefield, etc.
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I think that is a distinct possibility, but unlikely because the issue these people have with used games is they don't make money off of the game. So just blocking it with that method wouldn't serve as a way to monetize the used game market in their favor. So they would have to create some sort of database much like the one MS has built in the x1 for DRM.

So for example EA has said they aren't doing online passes anymore, but on the x1 they can easily monetize used game sales because MS is doing all of the grunt work for them on the management side of the digital rights. However, on the PS3 it would actually cost them money to develop and manage a similar system that could be utilized to monetize used game sales for them.

Now unless the Sony official mouth pieces have been lying about their part in the new coming wave of DRM, and actually did put a similar system built into the ps4, (what x1 has), then Sony would be doing the grunt work and they could monetize it easily. However, Sony has made every indication thus far otherwise and MS probably would sue them if they did.

prediction 3: E3 will not reveal the full details on these issues for either console, and it will not be known for sure until the products are actually released.

Exactly this



Max King of the Wild on 08 June 2013
Kasz216 said:


Logic dictates that the publishers are going to do SOMETHING to make up for that extra profit.  Either by some sort of similiar system for PS4 games... or by making Xbone games more appealing. (Tons of exclusive content, unpaid timed exclusives.

Come on, logic dictates no such thing. Logic isnt about assumptions and jumping to baseless conclusions



Max King of the Wild on 08 June 2013

In fact, logic dictates the complete opposite . that if something is not stated explicitly then you need to interpret whats been said in the best situation until specified. Basically give them the benefit of the doubt. I refrence you to The Power of Logic chapter 7 (i believe)



DucksUnlimited on 08 June 2013
Max King of the Wild said:
DucksUnlimited said:
Max King of the Wild said:
I have a shit ton of links of sony supplying specifics lol...


Please show the quote where they said all PS4 singleplayer games will be available without an online connection and I will be content.

They have said an internet connection is not required. They answered the questions that are asked. Its utterly ridiculous that they would need to say anything more than that. It's like if I asked you what you ate you went and started telling me everything you did today and all the ingredients in your food and who made it and how it was made instead of just saying "A sandwhich"

No internet connection is required to do what exactly? "Be enjoyed." We don't yet know what that means. Sony has given no specifics. You aren't doing yourself any favors pretending to know what they meant by such a vague statement.

BTW, your analogy is way off. I'm not asking about a bunch of stuff completely irrelevant to online connectivity on the console. And I'm not requesting the names of any and all people who are making games for the console, or the console and all of it's features itself. I'm asking if all singleplayer experiences will be available offline. That's it. A better analogy would be a sandwich shop owner saying that their food can be enjoyed without meat. My question then would be "are all of your sandwiches available without meat?" I wouldn't just assume that that must be the case, because there's nothing to suggest that it is. They could just be talking about some of the sandwiches being available without meat, in the same way Sony could be saying you can enjoy the console offline because some of the games are available offline.

My hope is that you're correct. There just isn't enough information to determine whether or not that's the case yet. You conceided this in your initial post but now you seem to have gone back on it. I hope you can see why that's an issue now.



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VGKing on 08 June 2013

Sony won't have DRM. That much is already confirmed.

The whole used games argument is a different issue entirely. Since there will be no internet connection required for PS4 games, its unlikely that there will be any used games restrictions beyond some sort of online passes like we have this gen.



Kasz216 on 08 June 2013
Max King of the Wild said:
In fact, logic dictates the complete opposite . that if something is not stated explicitly then you need to interpret whats been said in the best situation until specified. Basically give them the benefit of the doubt. I refrence you to The Power of Logic chapter 7 (i believe)

No it isn't.  That's not logical.  That's just stupid.  That's why the Congressional Budget Office is useless.

Besides logically one must consider the source, what you are ignoring is the fact that corporations constantly mislead and misdirect. 

They are like poltiicians.  They only fully tell the truth when being extremely direct, and answering every follow up question available.

Whenever there is wiggleroom they are concealing something, even if it's just a possibility to go that route.

To take PR statements at face value is... just silly, and you are better then that.

Or do you believe everything Obama is saying about the NSA scandal?  There is no proof available to not believe him.   Outside the fact that fact that his statements have been openended and evasive.

Corporations, polticians it's all the same, it's all about reading between the lines until someone gets them in a room and throughly grills them, or they put up or shut up.



VGKing on 08 June 2013
slowmo said:
I love how every negative XBO rumour must be true yet every negative Sony rumour must be false. How about instead of telling everyone to not comment on rumours you actually all practice what you preach. The PS4 will have DRM just like the 360 and PS3 do, the question will be how restrictive the policies are. I think some of you need to learn what DRM actually means.

Nope. PS4 can work fine without an internet connection. That's already been confirmed. So, no DRM. TRUTHFACT.

Whether or not publishers like EA will implement some sort of DRM on THEIR PS4 games, we don't know yet. It's all just specualtion at this point. We don't even have any rumors to discuss. 

Xbox One requires an internet connection for a reason. DRM is built into the system. Whether or not Microsoft did this themselves or publishers pushed for it doesn't matter. Microsoft went through with it so they are the ones being blamed and for good reason. We already know Sony won't follow MS. Patents aren't a good indication of anything as 99% fo them never get used.



Hynad on 08 June 2013
Kasz216 said:
Hynad said:
Kasz216 said:

A) Who said it was up to devs on the Wii U?  Nintendo's always been a pretty restrictive company when it comes to publishers.  Actually, all the console manufacturers have.  You can gurantee online passes specifically needed to be cleared by the console owners when they happened.

B) Will the Wii U even be getting the same games?


It's already up to the devs on PS3, and see how broad it was implemented? Online passes to unlock online play for a few games is all there is. Publishers get their extra money, people can still sell there crappy CoD MWUGF 28 after 6 months to get the new version, and everyone's happy. 

Sony said you'll be able to play your games old school style. Even if you don't have access to the internet. They mentioned how some countries where they sell their consoles don't have a good enough internet infrastructure to even think of implementing a solution as draconic as the XBO's.  So really, how much spin will people make out of this. You're saying that those people won't have access to the hundreds of third party publisher games because they don't have an internet access?  


A) Are you sure it's actually  up to them?   Or do they have to get permission and pay off sony for online passes?  

B1) Do you think Diablo 3 on PS3 will require an always on connection?  The PC version already does... the Xbox one version will.  The PS3 version will right?  More or less answers if Publisher could do it no?   People won't be able to play Diablo 3 offline even though it can be played fully single player.

B2) As for what Sony said about some countries not having good enough internet structure.  (Which by the way, the US falls into that category in a number of areas).  Aren't you going off base?   We both agreed Sony doesn't have a say in the matter right?  So what Sony's opinion can be completely  ignored here.  They think this, yet for some reason aren't forcing companies to not use that kind of DRM.   Why?   They control the system.  They can mandate it just as eaisly as they mandate more content.  They clearly haven't however.  


B3)  EA is killing their online passes, understandable considering the Xone makes it so they get money off used games another way.  Online passes were shown to be pretty profitable.

Do you really think EA is just giving up that revenue stream on PS4 with no compensation?  Or perhaps they'll use Xbox One like DRM?  Or maybe that disc watermarking so you have to pay money for each installation after the first?

What is the best case scenario is.... Sony is demanding less of a cut of sales?  

If EA was getting NOTHING out of it, don't you think they'd be demanding SOMETHING.

At the very least, doesn't it seem extremely likely that EA will implement such a system since they are not using pay for online anyore?  

B4) Why do you think Microsoft implemented these anti-consumer polcies, it's not like they don't understand the software situtation in poor countries.   Hell, it's funny, before this Microsoft's general software strategy has been "If you are going to pirate... pirate us!"   The XBox, and the 360 were both extremely easy to hack and pirate, with no real effort taken to protect from piracy unlike say the PS3.

Specfic publisher interest seems likely, no?

 

It's not like it'd of been the first time Sony has specifically misled people about something.  (Nor microsoft or Nitnendo if it was them.)

One should always be suspious about corporations and never take anything they say at face value.

A: Are you sure of the contrary? That's baseless speculation and not based on anything that was stated ever. 

B1: Diablo 3 has been confirmed to be playable offline. Keep up with the news.

B2: Yeah, they "control the system". My point is that the developers will want to sell their games in those parts as well. XBO may not care about them, but that doesn't mean ALL publishers will feel the same. 

B3: Could it be that those online passes that EA is "killing" were just not bringing in that much money to begin with? And that by getting rid of them, they make sure that more people get online and feel compelled to buy DLCs/microtransaction content? Would that be that surprising to you? Basically, MS is trying to go a route similar to Steam, where all content is locked to a user account. Sony has said they're not going that route... Just like Nintendo. So, take a game like Watchdog. That game won't cost extra money to use on the PS3, 360 and Wii U. But you're saying it will include all those barriers on the PS4? Because those are in place on the XBO? That's all speculation. And I try not to take those as facts as much as possible. Here, we have Sony saying they don't have such a system in place for the PS4. So yeah, there are no such system in place for the PS4. What third parties decide to do with their games is up to them, but that doesn't mean they will implement them. Just like Online passes weren't used by all devs on the PS3 and 360...

B4: What seems likely doesn't mean that's exactly what happened. And as for those markets, MS doesn't sell in as many markets as Sony and Nintendo in the first place. So who know if they truly care about those. From the looks of things, they don't seem to.

As for the bolded, I think I prefer going by what has been said and announced and not go all paranoid like the ones defending MS. If Sony comments differently regarding these issues, then I'll have a reason to be worried. So far, I don't have any reason to be. Based on what was announced and said about those things.

This quote tree has been shortened.



DucksUnlimited on 08 June 2013
Kasz216 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
In fact, logic dictates the complete opposite . that if something is not stated explicitly then you need to interpret whats been said in the best situation until specified. Basically give them the benefit of the doubt. I refrence you to The Power of Logic chapter 7 (i believe)

No it isn't.  That's not logical.  That's just stupid.  That's why the Congressional Budget Office is useless.

Your ignoring the fact that corporations constantly mislead and misdirect. 

They are like poltiicians.  They only fully tell the truth when being extremely direct, and answering every follow up question available.

Whenever there is wiggleroom they are concealing something, even if it's just a possibility to go that route.

 

To take PR statements at face value is... just silly, and you are better then that.

Or do you believe everything Obama is saying about the NSA scandal?  There is no proof available to not believe him.   Outside the fact that fact that his statements have been openended and evasive.

Corporations, polticians it's all the same, it's all about reading between the lines until someone gets them in a room and throughly grills them, or they put up or shut up.

I was going to write a similar response, so thank you for saving me the trouble.

To add to what you said, the logical burden of proof is on the claimant to provide sufficient evidence. You should not accept a claim, good or bad, until it has been fully supported. Somebody who uses the word "logic" as much as he does should be aware of this. Assuming that Sony won't implement DRM in some fashion is as bad as assuming they will at this point. The logical thing to do, for now, is admit that we just don't know.