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Forums - Gaming - Cliff Bleszinski on always-online: "Deal with it"

arcane_chaos on 13 April 2013
Lostplanet22 said:
arcane_chaos said:

then we should challenge Cliffy B. to make and always online AAA game and see how that fairs...

it amazes me that people can say that that an always online console is a good thing when the average gamer is roughly 35 years of age; that means they were gaming when internet wasn't even an after though. Why is is so hard for devs to realize that the money they claim is lost by 2nd hand markets/pirating will probably be equal to the money lost by people who won't by a console/game that requires online to function in the first place.

Cliffy completely missed/dodged the point when his own girlfriend asked him “Hey what if I’m a gamer who wants to go to a cabin in the woods for a week and I don’t have online access there?” by answereing “Unplugging entirely sometimes isn’t always a bad thing. And that’s the edge case…the week-long vacation to the cabin is only 30 hours of not playing a game or a device that’s built for much more." "Technology doesn’t advance by worrying about the edge case. What if that's a persons' daily living? or a person has a data plan? or doesn't have internet to begin with; they can potentially lose thousands, tens of thousands, possibly millions of customers.

) he protected Kinect and Ios and they challenged him to make a succesfull game then for those two and they did with Fruit Ninja (Kinect) and Infinity blade.

I wonder how many will care if they say that Unreal Tournament 4  will be only playabe with always online connection... 

correct me if I'm wrong; I've never played Unreal Tournament but wasn't it heavily focused  on the multiplayer aspect? wasn't the single-player just matches with AI? I would challenge Cliff to make a game like Gears; that was both strong in both the SP & MP. As for both infinity blade and fruit ninja; I applaud him for his success, but what I was getting that is imagine having to be connected in order to play those games; I don't see the harm in having in having and online/offline mode than something just being connected 24/7, though technology is evolving at a fast pace  doesn't mean the people are moving at the same pace as well.



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Metallicube on 13 April 2013

Why in the blue hell would I EVER need or want my device to be always online? These people never explain that part. They always rave about always online, but they never talk about the benefits of it. If I spent good hard money on a gaming console, or any technological device for that matter, I expect at the very least for it to be functional, regardless of if my internet connection is working or not.

Like the angry video game nerd says, "What is the most important aspect of any video game? Being able to fucking play it!"



Lostplanet22 on 13 April 2013
arcane_chaos said:
Lostplanet22 said:
arcane_chaos said:

then we should challenge Cliffy B. to make and always online AAA game and see how that fairs...

it amazes me that people can say that that an always online console is a good thing when the average gamer is roughly 35 years of age; that means they were gaming when internet wasn't even an after though. Why is is so hard for devs to realize that the money they claim is lost by 2nd hand markets/pirating will probably be equal to the money lost by people who won't by a console/game that requires online to function in the first place.

Cliffy completely missed/dodged the point when his own girlfriend asked him “Hey what if I’m a gamer who wants to go to a cabin in the woods for a week and I don’t have online access there?” by answereing “Unplugging entirely sometimes isn’t always a bad thing. And that’s the edge case…the week-long vacation to the cabin is only 30 hours of not playing a game or a device that’s built for much more." "Technology doesn’t advance by worrying about the edge case. What if that's a persons' daily living? or a person has a data plan? or doesn't have internet to begin with; they can potentially lose thousands, tens of thousands, possibly millions of customers.

) he protected Kinect and Ios and they challenged him to make a succesfull game then for those two and they did with Fruit Ninja (Kinect) and Infinity blade.

I wonder how many will care if they say that Unreal Tournament 4  will be only playabe with always online connection... 

correct me if I'm wrong; I've never played Unreal Tournament but wasn't it heavily focused  on the multiplayer aspect? wasn't the single-player just matches with AI? I would challenge Cliff to make a game like Gears; that was both strong in both the SP & MP. As for both infinity blade and fruit ninja; I applaud him for his success, but what I was getting that is imagine having to be connected in order to play those games; I don't see the harm in having in having and online/offline mode than something just being connected 24/7, though technology is evolving at a fast pace  doesn't mean the people are moving at the same pace as well.

Talking about Gears,  you know that the majority of the players finish the campaign with friends online right?  Honestly I think the people are moving faster,  if people don't find an internet connection for their smartphone or Tablet they get pissed and act like their phone/tablet is a piece of junk.



 

S.T.A.G.E. on 13 April 2013
Metallicube said:

Why in the blue hell would I EVER need or want my device to be always online? These people never explain that part. They always rave about always online, but they never talk about the benefits of it. If I spent good hard money on a gaming console, or any technological device for that matter, I expect at the very least for it to be functional, regardless of if my internet connection is working or not.

Like the angry video game nerd says, "What is the most important aspect of any video game? Being able to fucking play it!"


My Xbox 360 was useless without online for most exclusives. I had more fun with the original Xbox.



arcane_chaos on 13 April 2013
Lostplanet22 said:
arcane_chaos said:
Lostplanet22 said:
arcane_chaos said:

then we should challenge Cliffy B. to make and always online AAA game and see how that fairs...

it amazes me that people can say that that an always online console is a good thing when the average gamer is roughly 35 years of age; that means they were gaming when internet wasn't even an after though. Why is is so hard for devs to realize that the money they claim is lost by 2nd hand markets/pirating will probably be equal to the money lost by people who won't by a console/game that requires online to function in the first place.

Cliffy completely missed/dodged the point when his own girlfriend asked him “Hey what if I’m a gamer who wants to go to a cabin in the woods for a week and I don’t have online access there?” by answereing “Unplugging entirely sometimes isn’t always a bad thing. And that’s the edge case…the week-long vacation to the cabin is only 30 hours of not playing a game or a device that’s built for much more." "Technology doesn’t advance by worrying about the edge case. What if that's a persons' daily living? or a person has a data plan? or doesn't have internet to begin with; they can potentially lose thousands, tens of thousands, possibly millions of customers.

) he protected Kinect and Ios and they challenged him to make a succesfull game then for those two and they did with Fruit Ninja (Kinect) and Infinity blade.

I wonder how many will care if they say that Unreal Tournament 4  will be only playabe with always online connection... 

correct me if I'm wrong; I've never played Unreal Tournament but wasn't it heavily focused  on the multiplayer aspect? wasn't the single-player just matches with AI? I would challenge Cliff to make a game like Gears; that was both strong in both the SP & MP. As for both infinity blade and fruit ninja; I applaud him for his success, but what I was getting that is imagine having to be connected in order to play those games; I don't see the harm in having in having and online/offline mode than something just being connected 24/7, though technology is evolving at a fast pace  doesn't mean the people are moving at the same pace as well.

Talking about Gears,  you know that the majority of the players finish the campaign with friends online right?  Honestly I think the people are moving faster,  if people don't find an internet connection for their smartphone or Tablet they get pissed and act like their phone/tablet is a piece of junk.

but when does most=all?  lets say 75% of people who bought Gears 3 played it for online or atleast SP co-op online. now with Gears 3 standing a 5.84 mil lets say Epic games decided that for their next gears they implemented online-only to play, assuming the the next gears would atleast match the numbers of Gears 3 atm; lets say the the other 25 percent had bought gears 3 for the SP(like me) or didn't have a steady internet to support "always online" didn't buy the next gears. that means epic could potentially lose 1.46 mil in copies for literally no reason...

I think there's a rift that devs like Cliff don't see... he's needs to constantly be connected to hear feedback/test servers/ instal updates/ stay in touch with other devs and or different offices within/outside the company. and doesn't hurt that he's done well for himself, compared to the average joe who maybe doesn't have what it takes to have and always on or atleast online only device.



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Kasz216 on 13 April 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Kasz216 said:
Well... if Cliffy B is going to have empathy for anybody... it's a loudmouth who totally said something he should of known better about.

His Sim City and Diablo points are good ones though. Fan complaints are treated as nothing more then jokes, because at the end of the day... the boycotts never work.


::Cough::DMC::Clears throat::

I think that just had more to do with hack and slash games in general kind of taking a dive genre wise.   So the inane fan complaints looked like a bigger issue then it really was.

Or just in general people being sick of prequels.  DMC's sales compaired to DMC 4 look a LOT like GOW:A sales compaired to GOW

They even both have the same HUGE drop in Europeon sales first week interestingly.   (DMC actually fared a little bit better here.)

Sure DMC scored a lot better... but metacritic ratings and sales don't really go hand in hand unless the ratings are REALLYbad.

 

I think Europe might just be sick of Hack and Slash games.  (Or just buying less PS3 games?  I haven't actually looked at the total software numbers.)

 

Links so you don't have to bother to search.

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/70705/god-of-war-ascension/Europe/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/12533/god-of-war-iii/Europe/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/44652/dmc/Europe/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/7683/devil-may-cry-4/Europe/

 

Really DMC argueably has performed better then GOW:A in regards to their respective franchises



S.T.A.G.E. on 13 April 2013
Kasz216 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Kasz216 said:
Well... if Cliffy B is going to have empathy for anybody... it's a loudmouth who totally said something he should of known better about.

His Sim City and Diablo points are good ones though. Fan complaints are treated as nothing more then jokes, because at the end of the day... the boycotts never work.


::Cough::DMC::Clears throat::

I think that just had more to do with hack and slash games in general kind of taking a dive genre wise.   So the inane fan complaints looked like a bigger issue then it really was.

Or just in general people being sick of prequels.  DMC's sales compaired to DMC 4 look a LOT like GOW:A sales compaired to GOW

They even both have the same HUGE drop in Europeon sales first week interestingly.   (DMC actually fared a little bit better here.)

Sure DMC scored a lot better... but metacritic ratings and sales don't really go hand in hand unless the ratings are REALLYbad.

 

I think Europe might just be sick of Hack and Slash games.  (Or just buying less PS3 games?  I haven't actually looked at the total software numbers.)

 

Links so you don't have to bother to search.

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/70705/god-of-war-ascension/Europe/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/12533/god-of-war-iii/Europe/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/44652/dmc/Europe/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/7683/devil-may-cry-4/Europe/

 

Really DMC argueably has performed better then GOW:A in regards to their respective franchises


DMC is a multiplat, but yeah I think i get your point. The expected sales of that game was around 2 million dropped down to 1.2 million. Capcoms know fans retaliated, but thats another story. The pre launch distate for the change in teams and their direction caused DMC to go down.



Nem on 13 April 2013
Kasz216 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Kasz216 said:
Well... if Cliffy B is going to have empathy for anybody... it's a loudmouth who totally said something he should of known better about.

His Sim City and Diablo points are good ones though. Fan complaints are treated as nothing more then jokes, because at the end of the day... the boycotts never work.


::Cough::DMC::Clears throat::

I think that just had more to do with hack and slash games in general kind of taking a dive genre wise.   So the inane fan complaints looked like a bigger issue then it really was.

Or just in general people being sick of prequels.  DMC's sales compaired to DMC 4 look a LOT like GOW:A sales compaired to GOW

They even both have the same HUGE drop in Europeon sales first week interestingly.   (DMC actually fared a little bit better here.)

Sure DMC scored a lot better... but metacritic ratings and sales don't really go hand in hand unless the ratings are REALLYbad.

 

I think Europe might just be sick of Hack and Slash games.  (Or just buying less PS3 games?  I haven't actually looked at the total software numbers.)

 

Links so you don't have to bother to search.

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/70705/god-of-war-ascension/Europe/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/12533/god-of-war-iii/Europe/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/44652/dmc/Europe/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/7683/devil-may-cry-4/Europe/

 

Really DMC argueably has performed better then GOW:A in regards to their respective franchises


Life is difficult in europe at the moment. I think people just dont have that much money for games anymore. I find that game sales in europe are down across the board, except for the more popular titles.



theRepublic on 13 April 2013
kitler53 said:

i usually like cliffy but for this fuck him.


I'm not buying any product where i can instantly have it taken away from me without compensation.

don't think that can happen?  oh look at whats on the front page right now...  Nintendo shutting down Wii channels and online services

always online is fine for a service (like netflix) where i pay monthly access subscription fee.  i'm not paying license fees prices to own a product and not actually have the right to own the product.  fuck that. fuck cliffy.  fuck any company that tries that bullshit. 

That's a good point.  If the Xbox 2 is always online, what happens when the Xbox 3 comes out?  It becomes worthless.  I still have a SNES, and my wife just bought me an Atari 2600.  Can't do that when you morph your product into a service.



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Kasz216 on 14 April 2013
Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
Well... if Cliffy B is going to have empathy for anybody... it's a loudmouth who totally said something he should of known better about.

His Sim City and Diablo points are good ones though. Fan complaints are treated as nothing more then jokes, because at the end of the day... the boycotts never work.

Yes and no. It generally doesn't stop them from getting their money in the short term, but it does long-term brand damage that is hard to overcome. Do you think there will be nearly as much front-end hype for a Diablo IV?


 

EA's been the worst company in america 2 years in a row, and widely consdiered by most the worst videogame company in the world for.... pretty much ever really.

I just not convinced it works that way with software companies.