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Forums - Politics Discussion - Is Obama the Worst President that we have ever had?

tres said:
Kaizar said:
tres said:
Is Obama the worst president ever as question by the op with a lot of fox drivel statements.

This statement is the answer to all the b.s. this president had to endure from day 1

(Republican)Toomey “In the end it didn’t pass because we’re so politicized. There were some on my side who did not want to be seen helping the president do something he wanted to get done, just because the president wanted to do it,”

There is no more statement that is as indicative of the state of the rapid toxic state of the congressional right.

Obamas problem is hes too freakin nice if that makes him the worst he is


My thoughts exactly.

And I'm glad I'm the only person who notice the Obama is too nice, always trying to give a chance to everybody.

But I think when he came into office that he didn't believe that politician where really that bias & political, but after 2 to 4 years in office he has finally realize that politicians don't care Bout the people and that they only really care about Politics. Better late then never that Obama learns what kind of people all other democrats & republicans & independents really are.

i joke and say i which his name was jerome more than barry.  after the first 2 he should said the hell with them.  i mean come on the republican senate leader said our biggest goal is to make you a one term president.  that doesnt sound like a party that would ever be your friend.  they really dont give a damn about the people of america.  theres only one group that would get stuff done and thats the progressive caucus unfortunately the republican block and corporate shills of the democrap party dont want stuff to happen

its amazing how people in country hate progress


Obama should dissolve congress and then he'll be able to get some work done without it being stopped by reps on everything.

IE Obama votes to save peoples lives caught in a freak vaccum by providing them air.  Republican congress: tables the idea for four years until it can be studied by a republican president.←this is basically what's being done.



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theprof00 said:
thranx said:
theprof00 said:
so howbout that jobs report
220k+ per month jan, feb, march
160k+ per month oct, nov, dec


http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/03/keeping-up-not-getting-ahead/?hp

 

 

"

This lack of progress has been obscured by the steady decline of the high-profile unemployment rate, which continued in April. But the unemployment rate is easily misunderstood. The government counts as unemployed only those who are actively looking for new jobs. As people have given up, the unemployment rate has declined – not because more people are working, but because more people have stopped looking for work.

The share of adults looking for work peaked at 6.4 percent of the population in 2010. It fell to 4.7 percent in April. But recall that over the same period, the share of adults with jobs did not change. What grew instead is the share of adults no longer counted as part of the labor force.  

(The unemployment rate also uses a different denominator than the employment rate: Workers plus searchers, rather than the entire population. For the sake of consistency and clarity, the figures in the previous paragraph show “unemployment” as a share of the entire population.)"

Thranx, and don't take this the wrong way, but in what way is it possible to prove that employment is going up, or unemployment down, and do you have data for it?

All I've ever seen posted about the myths of unemployment were graphs and stats about how people are no longer being counted as looking for work. Despite lower unemployment rates, despite higher employment reporting, despite increased spending, increased retail revenue, and general increase in approval, despite more companies reporting actively hiring positions over companies reporting downsizing numbers, despite economic outlook increasing....

Which indicators actually show people dropping off the employment subsidies?

Because if spending is up, debt is proportionally growing, hiring is up, employment is up, and the general ratio of open positions to downsizing is positive, that would seem to be more than enough of an indicator saying "yes, the economy and jobs situation is improving".

The way I see it, if you are saying things are actually bleaker now, then what actual index can ever be used to show economic improvement. Apparently, no current measure works, because they all read positive.

 

NOTE: Also unemployment and underemployment are calculated against the workforce, not the total population. The total population is a denominator for payroll to population statistics.


To be honest I am a pretty true skeptic. As much as i like to use acts and data in discussions, I acknowledge for all I know the info is wrong. I have little trust for anyting I can't confirm with my own senses, so no offence taken.

 

I am not trying to say things are bleaker now, I am saying we have made no improvement. unemployemnt has gone down(but we aren't employing more people, but underemployment is high.

I dont know anyone in real life who feels the economy is doing great or even good.

 

I think things would have been better with a quick fall to the bottom, and than a natural recovery. What we have now is still in a stage of supported recovery from the government. As the support drops our recovery will drop again.



tres said:
Kaizar said:
tres said:
Kaizar said:
tres said:
Is Obama the worst president ever as question by the op with a lot of fox drivel statements.

This statement is the answer to all the b.s. this president had to endure from day 1

(Republican)Toomey “In the end it didn’t pass because we’re so politicized. There were some on my side who did not want to be seen helping the president do something he wanted to get done, just because the president wanted to do it,”

There is no more statement that is as indicative of the state of the rapid toxic state of the congressional right.

Obamas problem is hes too freakin nice if that makes him the worst he is


My thoughts exactly.

And I'm glad I'm the only person who notice the Obama is too nice, always trying to give a chance to everybody.

But I think when he came into office that he didn't believe that politician where really that bias & political, but after 2 to 4 years in office he has finally realize that politicians don't care Bout the people and that they only really care about Politics. Better late then never that Obama learns what kind of people all other democrats & republicans & independents really are.

i joke and say i which his name was jerome more than barry.  after the first 2 he should said the hell with them.  i mean come on the republican senate leader said our biggest goal is to make you a one term president.  that doesnt sound like a party that would ever be your friend.  they really dont give a damn about the people of america.  theres only one group that would get stuff done and thats the progressive caucus unfortunately the republican block and corporate shills of the democrap party dont want stuff to happen

its amazing how people in country hate progress


I wish the OP knew that.

Amazing how much people avoid details. I mean so many people try to generalize everything, and I think it's because those kind of people can't handle too much information with their limited memory or something.

And then some people just assume that somehow a executive is just going to be able to whip the rest of the government to do whatever he wants, but it never works like that in real life, as even movies like "Lincoln" has shown people.

we live in a low information nation and thats the problem

drudge makes up news fox repeats this faux news then call it facts then all their minions regurgitate it rinse and repeat.  its a great concept but bad for the country as a whole.

the were plotting from day 1 to overthrow this president.  i dont like dems but i loathe republicans and i used to vote for them go figure.  im quite an independent but the stuff theyve been doing since reagan its been downhill ever since


At least now of days people will eventually get correctly inform, but that seems to take a minimum of 3 years, like the Wall Street movement which should have been that big 3 years earlier then 2011.

At least I hope the majority of our fellow Americans will be accurately inform in the next 3 years or something.

Well at least Democrats try to get stuff done for the people and sometimes do, like under Bill Clinton & Barack Obama. But we really need to vote in a lot of new people into Congress & Sensate, but especially Congress.

I hope this November 2014 that people will clean up the government by using our power to vote.

Well, here's hoping LOL.



Psyberius said:
tres said:
Kaizar said:
tres said:
Is Obama the worst president ever as question by the op with a lot of fox drivel statements.

This statement is the answer to all the b.s. this president had to endure from day 1

(Republican)Toomey “In the end it didn’t pass because we’re so politicized. There were some on my side who did not want to be seen helping the president do something he wanted to get done, just because the president wanted to do it,”

There is no more statement that is as indicative of the state of the rapid toxic state of the congressional right.

Obamas problem is hes too freakin nice if that makes him the worst he is


My thoughts exactly.

And I'm glad I'm the only person who notice the Obama is too nice, always trying to give a chance to everybody.

But I think when he came into office that he didn't believe that politician where really that bias & political, but after 2 to 4 years in office he has finally realize that politicians don't care Bout the people and that they only really care about Politics. Better late then never that Obama learns what kind of people all other democrats & republicans & independents really are.

i joke and say i which his name was jerome more than barry.  after the first 2 he should said the hell with them.  i mean come on the republican senate leader said our biggest goal is to make you a one term president.  that doesnt sound like a party that would ever be your friend.  they really dont give a damn about the people of america.  theres only one group that would get stuff done and thats the progressive caucus unfortunately the republican block and corporate shills of the democrap party dont want stuff to happen

its amazing how people in country hate progress


Obama should dissolve congress and then he'll be able to get some work done without it being stopped by reps on everything.

IE Obama votes to save peoples lives caught in a freak vaccum by providing them air.  Republican congress: tables the idea for four years until it can be studied by a republican president.←this is basically what's being done.


LOL, but the sad thing is that probably would happen, at least during Obama's first term I could actually see Republicans doing that LOL.



But, but Obama published this awesome video:

If already posted you need to watch it again, and again, and again.

Nah, I don't like him that much as President, he seems a cool dude though. I actually wanted to see Romney winning. But I will give Obama a chance. My opinion on him will be mainly focused in how he handles the referendum for Puerto Rico for which he plans to assign 1.5 mil in budget. And when I am talking about handling, I am talking about having no colonial options in it. Either Statehood, Associated Republic or Independence. No commonwealth as it stands now. He relegated the definitions of the formulas to the US Department of Defense, though. We will see.



Nintendo is selling their IPs to Microsoft and this is true because:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=221391&page=1

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theprof00 said:
thranx said:
theprof00 said:
so howbout that jobs report
220k+ per month jan, feb, march
160k+ per month oct, nov, dec


http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/03/keeping-up-not-getting-ahead/?hp

 

 

"

This lack of progress has been obscured by the steady decline of the high-profile unemployment rate, which continued in April. But the unemployment rate is easily misunderstood. The government counts as unemployed only those who are actively looking for new jobs. As people have given up, the unemployment rate has declined – not because more people are working, but because more people have stopped looking for work.

The share of adults looking for work peaked at 6.4 percent of the population in 2010. It fell to 4.7 percent in April. But recall that over the same period, the share of adults with jobs did not change. What grew instead is the share of adults no longer counted as part of the labor force.  

(The unemployment rate also uses a different denominator than the employment rate: Workers plus searchers, rather than the entire population. For the sake of consistency and clarity, the figures in the previous paragraph show “unemployment” as a share of the entire population.)"

Thranx, and don't take this the wrong way, but in what way is it possible to prove that employment is going up, or unemployment down, and do you have data for it?

 


Particpation rate is generally what you are looking for.

 

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

 

In general... What you aren't accounting for is new workers, along with people who have given up looking for work.

 

The US population is still growing... therefore even with increasing jobs and numbers.  In reality we are falling behind.



Kasz216 said:
theprof00 said:
thranx said:
theprof00 said:
so howbout that jobs report
220k+ per month jan, feb, march
160k+ per month oct, nov, dec


http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/03/keeping-up-not-getting-ahead/?hp

 

 

"

This lack of progress has been obscured by the steady decline of the high-profile unemployment rate, which continued in April. But the unemployment rate is easily misunderstood. The government counts as unemployed only those who are actively looking for new jobs. As people have given up, the unemployment rate has declined – not because more people are working, but because more people have stopped looking for work.

The share of adults looking for work peaked at 6.4 percent of the population in 2010. It fell to 4.7 percent in April. But recall that over the same period, the share of adults with jobs did not change. What grew instead is the share of adults no longer counted as part of the labor force.  

(The unemployment rate also uses a different denominator than the employment rate: Workers plus searchers, rather than the entire population. For the sake of consistency and clarity, the figures in the previous paragraph show “unemployment” as a share of the entire population.)"

Thranx, and don't take this the wrong way, but in what way is it possible to prove that employment is going up, or unemployment down, and do you have data for it?

 


Particpation rate is generally what you are looking for.

 

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

 

In general... What you aren't accounting for is new workers, along with people who have given up looking for work.

 

The US population is still growing... therefore even with increasing jobs and numbers.  In reality we are falling behind.

The only problem with your graph, is that it does not prove what thranx is saying.

http://www.amosweb.com/cgi-bin/awb_nav.pl?s=wpd&c=dsp&k=labor+force+participation+rate

"When economists are concerned with full employment of the economy's resources they generally focus on the natural unemployment rate and the civilian labor force. However, the labor force participation rate is also important to the notion of production capabilities. While about 30 percent of the total noninstitutionalized civilian population (in the range of 60 million people) is either unwilling or unable to engage in productive activities, this group has the potential to enter the labor force."

In general, the labor force participation rate shows trends in society, not really a good measure of the actual labor force. For instance, it shows social changes, one could be more minorities entering higher education "

"The number of minority students grew 56 percent to 5.8 million"
http://diversity.ucsc.edu/resources/images/ace_report.pdf

and the exclusion of military jobs,

which has climbed since 2001. The labor force participation rate does not include military jobs.

But yes, I am accounting for new population. The problem is, if 250k jobs are required every month, and the 3 months before last were 160k, and the recent 3 were 220k, then 250k is right around the corner.

 

EDIT: Furthermore, how could economists all take the recent labor report as good and send stocks up over 1% total in all sectors, if the news was actually bad. I've looked at every chart on the BLS website, and you only choose to look at that one single chart. Well, you can feel free to address the topics I brought up individually if you'd like.

a) economists don't rely on the chart you use
b) That chart is, by expert opinion, used to identify trends in society (rather than use as a laborforce statistic)
c) Doesn't include growth in military personnel
d) Doesn't factor in higher minority enrollment in higher education



theprof00 said:
Kasz216 said:
theprof00 said:
thranx said:
theprof00 said:
so howbout that jobs report
220k+ per month jan, feb, march
160k+ per month oct, nov, dec


http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/03/keeping-up-not-getting-ahead/?hp

 

 

"

This lack of progress has been obscured by the steady decline of the high-profile unemployment rate, which continued in April. But the unemployment rate is easily misunderstood. The government counts as unemployed only those who are actively looking for new jobs. As people have given up, the unemployment rate has declined – not because more people are working, but because more people have stopped looking for work.

The share of adults looking for work peaked at 6.4 percent of the population in 2010. It fell to 4.7 percent in April. But recall that over the same period, the share of adults with jobs did not change. What grew instead is the share of adults no longer counted as part of the labor force.  

(The unemployment rate also uses a different denominator than the employment rate: Workers plus searchers, rather than the entire population. For the sake of consistency and clarity, the figures in the previous paragraph show “unemployment” as a share of the entire population.)"

Thranx, and don't take this the wrong way, but in what way is it possible to prove that employment is going up, or unemployment down, and do you have data for it?

 


Particpation rate is generally what you are looking for.

 

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

 

In general... What you aren't accounting for is new workers, along with people who have given up looking for work.

 

The US population is still growing... therefore even with increasing jobs and numbers.  In reality we are falling behind.

The only problem with your graph, is that it does not prove what thranx is saying.

http://www.amosweb.com/cgi-bin/awb_nav.pl?s=wpd&c=dsp&k=labor+force+participation+rate

"When economists are concerned with full employment of the economy's resources they generally focus on the natural unemployment rate and the civilian labor force. However, the labor force participation rate is also important to the notion of production capabilities. While about 30 percent of the total noninstitutionalized civilian population (in the range of 60 million people) is either unwilling or unable to engage in productive activities, this group has the potential to enter the labor force."

 

In general, the labor force participation rate shows trends in society, not really a good measure of the actual labor force. For instance, it shows social changes, one could be more minorities entering higher education "

"The number of minority students grew 56 percent to 5.8 million"
http://diversity.ucsc.edu/resources/images/ace_report.pdf

and the exclusion of military jobs,

which has climbed since 2001. The labor force participation rate does not include military jobs.

But yes, I am accounting for new population. The problem is, if 250k jobs are required every month, and the 3 months before last were 160k, and the recent 3 were 220k, then 250k is right around the corner.

 

EDIT: Furthermore, how could economists all take the recent labor report as good and send stocks up over 1% total in all sectors, if the news was actually bad. I've looked at every chart on the BLS website, and you only choose to look at that one single chart. Well, you can feel free to address the topics I brought up individually if you'd like.

a) economists don't rely on the chart you use
b) That chart is, by expert opinion, used to identify trends in society (rather than use as a laborforce statistic)
c) Doesn't include growth in military personnel
d) Doesn't factor in higher minority enrollment in higher education


Stock markets don't Judge "Good or Bad".   They judge "Expected vs unexpected."

Stocks went up over 1% because experts were expecting between 100,000-150,000 Jobs this month.  With the majority leaning towards the low end.

The high end was hit.

It's the same reason Sony's stocks can shoot up when they suffer a loss.  The loss was less big then was expected, and expectations had depressed in the stock for a worse performance.

The economy did slightly less awful then expected.

 

Though honestly the stock market is quasi fucked up now as it is.  Sometimes they've been afraid of good news because they think it means Bernake will turn off the spickett of free money. 

The stock market has kind of been somewhat removed from the practical market due to the Federal Reserve's policys... creating more or less an economy where those who investments do awesome... and those without investments are still pretty fucked.

Not something i'd blame Obama for even if he is supportive of Fed Policy, since the Fed is independent until it's time to pick a new head.  Blame him when he replaces Bernake with Geinther and the same thing happens.

 

Outside which....

A) Yes they do.... plenty of economists do.    Example.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/06/business/economy/us-adds-only-88000-jobs-jobless-rate-falls-to-7-6.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Heck, Shapiro is a "chief" economist no less.

B) By a single experts opinion... for plenty of others... it's very important.  Again, like the above Mr. Shapiro.

C)   Military jobs aren't counted... and neither are people in the military.  So it seems like a mostly meaningless point. 

Or to put it another way, if everyone but one person were enlisted in the army, and that guy ran a hot dog stand.  The Labor Participation rate would be 100%.  

D) College enrollment is up... but not by a huge number on the whole.  The issue is more... people just trying to avoid graduating.



Most of the points in the OP just sound like baseless opinions ripped from angry, conservative talk show hosts. It also shows an inept understanding of federal power. Obama legalized marijuana and criminalized large sodas? You might want to do a fact check there buddy.



 

 

Well atleast he give us great cartoons: