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Forums - Sony - Killzone developer 'PS4 has no performance bottlenecks'

Somini said:
kowenicki said:
Somini said:
irstupid said:
Th3PANO said:
thats why it runs at 30 fps....lol

this should end the thread.


Seriously if there are zero bottlenecks, then why is it only 30FPS?

 

Any developer saying there are no bottlenecks is not pushing itself.  They can always increase FPS, better lighting, physics, more enemies, ect.

30FPS doesn't mean the system has bottlenecks. It could very well be a financial decision to make the game less expensive.


what!?

A 1st party, showcase, launch title is under financial constraints!?!?  lol


What does first party has to do with burning money!? Do you want them to spend 100 million on it, when the game probably won't sell more than 4 million tops. You're not making any sense!

First party ROI considerations have nothing to do with third party ROI considerations. First party games don't pay royalties to the console manufacturer, and they are used to sell consoles and increase the user base, so the financial implications of a first party game are much harder to calculate than a third party game. Sony could see it as a success with "only" one million games sold, if it implies one million consoles sold.



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Somini said:
irstupid said:
Th3PANO said:
thats why it runs at 30 fps....lol

this should end the thread.


Seriously if there are zero bottlenecks, then why is it only 30FPS?

 

Any developer saying there are no bottlenecks is not pushing itself.  They can always increase FPS, better lighting, physics, more enemies, ect.

30FPS doesn't mean the system has bottlenecks. It could very well be a financial decision to make the game less expensive.

30fps, is usually a code put into the game to LIMIT it to that amount.  They are actually doing more work by making it a constant 30fps, than letting it just be whatever fps it can achieve at any given moment.

But again its like 1 line of code doing this.  There is no financial burden to FPS.



CGI-Quality said:
Th3PANO said:
thats why it runs at 30 fps....lol

Which has nothing to do with anything, here. 

OT: From experience, this isn't entirely true. There is always some hang up no matter how efficient a machine is. That said, I'm sure the issue will be much less than the PS3 ever was.


Of course it has. If there are no bottlenecks, then you can use 60 fps as the engine ticks frequency. You don't leave performance unused on purpose.

PS: Even a completely balanced architecture for one game engine is unbalanced for other game engines, so it's a nonsense way to define a much more developer friendly than PS3 architecture.



Here's a good example of a performance bottleneck on HD5550 cards caused by memory bandwidth:

HD5550 (GDDR5; 51.2GB/s) = 1.24x HD5550 (DDR3; 21.6GB/s) = 1.32x HD5550 (DDR2; 12.8GB/s)

Core clock and bus width are same for all cards, so slower memory subsystem is causing bottleneck when it's used, not allowing GPU to perform anywhere near its full potential.



DirtyP2002 said:
I guess the PS4 will cure cancer.


YES IT WILL.



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CGI, if there is extra performance on the table, they should use it. Are they accepting that they aren't good game developers leaving extra performance unused? I'm sure that they don't think this, we are talking of Guerrilla after all, so all they are doing is PR work for their company. Only an unlimited performance machine has no bottlenecks, because there is always some subsystem that limits your engine, may it be texturing power, shading power, memory bandwidth or any other thing.



SENTIENT6 said:
Kynes said:

That's the stupidest thing a developer could say, it's clearly a PR catchphrase that parrots will repeat. Every system has bottlenecks, wider or narrower, but you always find components that limit you. You can have more than one bottleneck, and they can be different bottlenecks depending of the engine and game. Sometimes it can be the memory subsystem, sometimes the cpu, sometimes the gpu. You can even have bottlenecks inside the gpu, in the shading power, TMUs, tessellation units...

Here come the experts who know more then the experts lmao. Maybe For the game they are making they have not hit any bottlenecks. I love how everyone on a forum is a developer or financial expert.

they are also marketing expert, political expert, and their prediction skills surpassed those operation managers with 30 years of experience...



 

CGI-Quality said:
Kynes said:
CGI, if there is extra performance on the table, they should use it. 

This could have been said of any machine, with any launch title. They will, generally, use the least amount of the system's core. 


Not with any launch title, with any title. There is a misconception, the first time you compile a game you are lucky if it does not hangs, and it's not uncommon that you don't obtain more than 2-3 fps. Does it mean that the cpu or the gpu is unused? No, the only thing is that there are always inefficiencies on the code that game companies debug with time, and they learn tricks to lessen the work with the same end results.



walsufnir said:
Talal said:
kowenicki said:
Talal said:
kowenicki said:
ethomaz said:
lol I read the comments here now...

The people are confusing bottleneck with max performance of a system.

Every system has a peak performance even if is don't have a bottleneck... the system can be balanced to have max performance for all component at the same time without generate any bottleneck.

If a component reach 100% (max performance) then there is no bottleneck holding it... the bottleneck happen when a component don't permit another component to reach 100%.


Excellent, thats great news.  You are saying that there is no bottleneck, the sytem is perfecly balanced in every single detail. So the sytem will be able to be fully utilised quite easily and very early then, with zero problems and with zero compromises.

I look forward to revisiting this thread within a matter of months.


Why do you have to be like that? He's just explaining what the article said.

Like what?  I am saying thats great that it is so perfectly and amazingly balanced at such a great price.  One wonders why it didnt already exist?  My second point is that this thread will serve as a great reference point as to if this is correct or not.


Okay great but direct that to the Killzone devs not Ethamoz. Also, like I mentioned I don't know much about these things, but obviously there's always going to be some bias from the devs. I believe that it indeed is a well balanced console but I doubt that it is as perfect as these devs are implying.

They are first party devs so it should surprise nobody. Sony did this before and they are doing it again :) No problem with this, it's marketing. You don't have to be honest with marketing.

 

Exactly, everyone does that. However, it does show that the console is pretty balanced if they went as far as saying that it was perfect. It is an exaggeration but it can't be baseless.



CGI-Quality said:
Kynes said:
CGI-Quality said:
Kynes said:
CGI, if there is extra performance on the table, they should use it. 

This could have been said of any machine, with any launch title. They will, generally, use the least amount of the system's core. 


Not with any launch title, with any title.

Of course, but then, that complements what I said. ;)

Launch titles will not even come close to stressing the hardware.


That's not true, at all. They stress the hardware, but with time the developers learn tricks. Graphics are 100% doing the same with less work, or doing more with the same work. When an approximation is good enough, you don't increase the computational work because the end user won't take notice. It's the same with game engines, you use occlusion, normal maps to emulate geometry, tessellation, different lightning techniques to emulate real lightning...