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Forums - Sony Discussion - Killzone developer 'PS4 has no performance bottlenecks'

Kynes said:
CGI-Quality said:
Kynes said:
CGI-Quality said:
Kynes said:
CGI-Quality said:

Of course, but then, that complements what I said. ;)

Launch titles will not even come close to stressing the hardware.


That's not true, at all. They stress the hardware, but with time the developers learn tricks. Graphics are 100% doing the same with less work, or doing more with the same work. When an approximation is good enough, you don't increase the computational work.

It is true. Have you ever worked on this stuff before? Launch games take advantage of the machine, yes, but don't stress it. There's a difference.

Semantics.

No, experience. ;)

No, CGI, semantics. Every developer extracts all the performance of the machine with every game, the difference is what they do with that performance.


Like the PS3 used all the Cell SPU at launch games... ohh wait. The launch games nevef uses no near 100% of the hardware

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pezus said:
irstupid said:
Th3PANO said:
thats why it runs at 30 fps....lol

this should end the thread.


Seriously if there are zero bottlenecks, then why is it only 30FPS?

 

Any developer saying there are no bottlenecks is not pushing itself.  They can always increase FPS, better lighting, physics, more enemies, ect.

You don't seem to understand what a bottleneck is. It having practically no (noticable) bottleneck doesn't mean it has UNLIMITED POWER. Jesus

I know the difference.  

 

I guarantee in a few years, if even that long, we will see some developers hoping for a more powerful (cpu, gpu, ect) or more (ram, ect)

I dont' know what it will be at moment, but they will be clamoring for something to be better, not the entire sytem, just something else.  They will hope that next system has more of this.  JUst like ram was said all last gen.  Now it seems we hav eplenty of ram.  There will be something that was shortchanged.  The developers got so used ot developing with a lack of ram last generation that anything they are doign right now launch wise they are having no "seeable bottlenecks" because they are so used to the ram being the bottleneck.   

So they are coding and doing what htey normally do and being pleasantly surprised that they can do everything they want can ram isn't hindering them.  Give them a couple games and they will be using the ram to its fullest and realize that hte CPU may suck ass.  



You know how you determine if there is any bottlenecks?

You max out performace. If at max performance every component is also running at its maximum level, then there is zero bottlenecks.

So are you guys going to say that Killzone 4 is pushing every component of the PS4 to its maximum?

Cause if there is not components running at its maximum power, then there is no way for Guerilla to determine where the bottleneck is, if there is one.



Th3PANO said:
thats why it runs at 30 fps....lol

First thing I thought of was "no bottlenecks? cool then i await its 120 FPS 1080p glory".

Is it true it runs at 30? Then bottleneck confirmed.



ethomaz said:
Kynes said:
CGI-Quality said:
Kynes said:
CGI-Quality said:
Kynes said:
CGI-Quality said:

Of course, but then, that complements what I said. ;)

Launch titles will not even come close to stressing the hardware.


That's not true, at all. They stress the hardware, but with time the developers learn tricks. Graphics are 100% doing the same with less work, or doing more with the same work. When an approximation is good enough, you don't increase the computational work.

It is true. Have you ever worked on this stuff before? Launch games take advantage of the machine, yes, but don't stress it. There's a difference.

Semantics.

No, experience. ;)

No, CGI, semantics. Every developer extracts all the performance of the machine with every game, the difference is what they do with that performance.


Like the PS3 used all the Cell SPU at launch games... ohh wait. The launch games nevef uses no near 100% of the hardware


Cell was a complete paradigm shift at the time, they just needed more time to paralelyze more, only that. It's an exception to the rule.

PS4 CPU (and nextbox, it seems) has 8 weak cores, I'm sure that some developers will say that it has low CPU performance and it bottlenecks the rest of the system.



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Guerrilla is owned by Sony. This guy is a first-party developer. This would be like someone from Retro Studios saying positive things about the Wii U.

Hey guys, breaking news! Shigeru Miyamoto says the Wii U is the perfect gaming machine! Better than PS4 confirmed??



Kynes said:

That's the stupidest thing a developer could say, it's clearly a PR catchphrase that parrots will repeat. Every system has bottlenecks, wider or narrower, but you always find components that limit you. You can have more than one bottleneck, and they can be different bottlenecks depending of the engine and game. Sometimes it can be the memory subsystem, sometimes the cpu, sometimes the gpu. You can even have bottlenecks inside the gpu, in the shading power, TMUs, tessellation units...


I believe what he means is that there is nothing within the system bottlenecking other parts of the system. On the PS3 the weak nVidia GPU was holding back the 3.2GHz eight-core Cell processor. Apparently this Killzone developer thinks everything has been evened out now.



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Kynes said:
ethomaz said:
Kynes said:
CGI-Quality said:
Kynes said:
CGI-Quality said:
Kynes said:
CGI-Quality said:

Of course, but then, that complements what I said. ;)

Launch titles will not even come close to stressing the hardware.


That's not true, at all. They stress the hardware, but with time the developers learn tricks. Graphics are 100% doing the same with less work, or doing more with the same work. When an approximation is good enough, you don't increase the computational work.

It is true. Have you ever worked on this stuff before? Launch games take advantage of the machine, yes, but don't stress it. There's a difference.

Semantics.

No, experience. ;)

No, CGI, semantics. Every developer extracts all the performance of the machine with every game, the difference is what they do with that performance.


Like the PS3 used all the Cell SPU at launch games... ohh wait. The launch games nevef uses no near 100% of the hardware


Cell was a complete paradigm shift at the time, they just needed more time to paralelyze more, only that. It's an exception to the rule.

PS4 CPU (and nextbox, it seems) has 8 weak cores, I'm sure that some developers will say that it has low CPU performance and it bottlenecks the rest of the system.

Have you seen an 8 core CPU and a high performance GPU with compute functions working together on an APU. No? HSA compatible too?



OMFG people, does anyone understand the term 'bottleneck"? Here's a hint: it is NOT synonymous with "no limits"

A bottleneck, in the context of a computer, console, etc. is a specific component (or components) of the design that are significantly less powerful than the other components and thus represents a 'bottleneck' to the overall performance of the system as a whole. For example the PS3's split 256Mb/256Mb RAM architecture was a bottleneck because it severely limited what the other components of the system (Cell, etc) were capable of doing had that bottleneck not existed.

When the KZ4 dev says they aren't seeing a bottleneck in the PS4 he doesn't mean that the system is all powerful and can never be over-taxed to the point of slowing down. What he meant was that all of the components of the system are well-balanced so there isn't one aspect of the design that is a limiting factor for the others.



Kynes said:


Cell was a complete paradigm shift at the time, they just needed more time to paralelyze more, only that. It's an exception to the rule.

PS4 CPU (and nextbox, it seems) has 8 weak cores, I'm sure that some developers will say that it has low CPU performance and it bottlenecks the rest of the system.


No game will use 100% all the 8-cores of the PS4 CPU at launch... you can go back here again to prove if I'm wrong... same for GPU and memory.

Now the late games will be close to use all components 100%.