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Forums - Sony Discussion - Killzone developer 'PS4 has no performance bottlenecks'

walsufnir on 08 April 2013
ethomaz said:
lol I read the comments here now...

The people are confusing bottleneck with max performance of a system.

Every system has a peak performance even if is don't have a bottleneck... the system can be balanced to have max performance for all component at the same time without generate any bottleneck.

If a component reach 100% (max performance) then there is no bottleneck holding it... the bottleneck happen when a component don't permit another component to reach 100%.

lol i read your comment here now...

The problem is that you don't understand what some of us said. Of course it has limited performance and yes, it also has bottlenecks. Like every other system with limited resources (read: like every other system out there).



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Talal on 08 April 2013

What Ethamoz said. What he meant was that the PS4 is a balanced machine, no single component holds back another. Whether that is true I don't know I'm not an expert, but in no way did he imply that the PS4 is capable of anything.



ethomaz on 08 April 2013

walsufnir said:

Depends on application: you can easily program code for it that has the cpu as a bottleneck. Just think of very complex AI and great graphics. It all depends on your algorithms and what you want to achieve. Think of very large game trees occupying many ram, paired with many high-res pictures. Either RAM is limited or CPU (AI is very CPU-intensive). PS4 is designed to minimize bottlenecks but that does not mean that in every case there aren't bottlenecks.

So you used 100% of the CPU but not the GPU... it is not a bottleneck... if you want you can use more from GPU... the hardware is not limiting it.

You are confusing the 100% use of a component with bottleneck.

I can  make a game to use 100% of the GPU and only 50% of the RAM... I programed my game to be that but it is not the case the GPU is holding the memory use... if I want I can use 100% of the RAM with 100% of the GPU.

A classic example of bottleneck is when I can't use 100% of the GPU because the memory bandwidth can't send data fast enough to GPU reach 100%... so the RAM bandwidth is limiting the GPU work.



ethomaz on 08 April 2013
Talal said:
What Ethamoz said. What he meant was that the PS4 is a balanced machine, no single component holds back another. Whether that is true I don't know I'm not an expert, but in no way did he imply that the PS4 is capable of anything.

This.

There is no hardware bottleneck... no component is stronger or weaker compared to others... it is a balanced hardware.



Sal.Paradise on 08 April 2013

Some people here very quick to dismiss something they themselves have misunderstood. Surprise (:

Hopefully this should be a very balanced system, though if the RAM upgrade occurred as late as it seems to have done, there'll probably be some excess there.



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walsufnir on 08 April 2013
ethomaz said:

walsufnir said:

Depends on application: you can easily program code for it that has the cpu as a bottleneck. Just think of very complex AI and great graphics. It all depends on your algorithms and what you want to achieve. Think of very large game trees occupying many ram, paired with many high-res pictures. Either RAM is limited or CPU (AI is very CPU-intensive). PS4 is designed to minimize bottlenecks but that does not mean that in every case there aren't bottlenecks.

So you used 100% of the CPU but not the GPU... it is not a bottleneck... if you want you can use more from GPU... the hardware is not limiting it.

You are confusing the 100% use of a component with bottleneck.

I can  make a game to use 100% of the GPU and only 50% of the RAM... I programed my game to be that but it is not the case the GPU is holding the memory use... if I want I can use 100% of the RAM with 100% of the GPU.

A classic example of bottleneck is when I can't use 100% of the GPU because the memory bandwidth can't send data fast enough to GPU reach 100%... so the RAM bandwidth is limiting the GPU work.


"I can make" yes yes. And I can easily write code that it has bottlenecks and I can write code so that you don't have bottlenecks or avoid these. Devs are doing this since Zuse invented the first computer. The way they are talking is "if you want, every game can every time use up to 100% of the system's power" which has yet to be shown and to be seen and is highly doubtful. Yes, gddr5-ram is fast but it doesn't mean it will be in all cases.

In real, every CPU has io-wait, 100% can't be achieved. That's why there is not only RAM but also caches and cache-misses are very expensive. We can do this in deeper language if you want but that wouldn't change facts.

It all depends, again, on what you want to achieve on the console.



Talal on 08 April 2013
kowenicki said:
ethomaz said:
lol I read the comments here now...

The people are confusing bottleneck with max performance of a system.

Every system has a peak performance even if is don't have a bottleneck... the system can be balanced to have max performance for all component at the same time without generate any bottleneck.

If a component reach 100% (max performance) then there is no bottleneck holding it... the bottleneck happen when a component don't permit another component to reach 100%.


Excellent, thats great news.  You are saying that there is no bottleneck, the sytem is perfecly balanced in every single detail. So the sytem will be able to be fully utilised quite easily and very early then, with zero problems and with zero compromises.

I look forward to revisiting this thread within a matter of months.


Why do you have to be like that? He's just explaining what the article said.



Kynes on 08 April 2013
kowenicki said:
Talal said:
kowenicki said:
ethomaz said:
lol I read the comments here now...

The people are confusing bottleneck with max performance of a system.

Every system has a peak performance even if is don't have a bottleneck... the system can be balanced to have max performance for all component at the same time without generate any bottleneck.

If a component reach 100% (max performance) then there is no bottleneck holding it... the bottleneck happen when a component don't permit another component to reach 100%.


Excellent, thats great news.  You are saying that there is no bottleneck, the sytem is perfecly balanced in every single detail. So the sytem will be able to be fully utilised quite easily and very early then, with zero problems and with zero compromises.

I look forward to revisiting this thread within a matter of months.


Why do you have to be like that? He's just explaining what the article said.

Like what?  I am saying thats great that it is so perfectly and amazingly balanced at such a great price.  One wonders why it didnt already exist?  My second point is that this thread will serve as a great reference point as to if this is correct or not.

Do not worry about this, on five or six years they will say that the PS4 was an unballanced machine, and the PS5 will be the next great thing. I remember what was said about the PS3 not so long time ago.



walsufnir on 08 April 2013
Kynes said:
kowenicki said:
Talal said:
kowenicki said:
ethomaz said:
lol I read the comments here now...

The people are confusing bottleneck with max performance of a system.

Every system has a peak performance even if is don't have a bottleneck... the system can be balanced to have max performance for all component at the same time without generate any bottleneck.

If a component reach 100% (max performance) then there is no bottleneck holding it... the bottleneck happen when a component don't permit another component to reach 100%.


Excellent, thats great news.  You are saying that there is no bottleneck, the sytem is perfecly balanced in every single detail. So the sytem will be able to be fully utilised quite easily and very early then, with zero problems and with zero compromises.

I look forward to revisiting this thread within a matter of months.


Why do you have to be like that? He's just explaining what the article said.

Like what?  I am saying thats great that it is so perfectly and amazingly balanced at such a great price.  One wonders why it didnt already exist?  My second point is that this thread will serve as a great reference point as to if this is correct or not.

Do not worry about this, on five or six years they will say that the PS4 was an unballanced machine, and the PS5 will be the next great thing. I remember what was said about the PS3 not so long time ago.

"The ps3 has no memory issues, Bethesda is just not able to program for ps3."



Kynes on 08 April 2013
walsufnir said:
Kynes said:
kowenicki said:
...

Like what?  I am saying thats great that it is so perfectly and amazingly balanced at such a great price.  One wonders why it didnt already exist?  My second point is that this thread will serve as a great reference point as to if this is correct or not.

Do not worry about this, on five or six years they will say that the PS4 was an unballanced machine, and the PS5 will be the next great thing. I remember what was said about the PS3 not so long time ago.

"The ps3 has no memory issues, Bethesda is just not able to program for ps3."

Fucking lazy devs...