superchunk said: So, when AC4 and Watch_Dogs (WD btw is a next-gen game being made first on WiiU/PS4/neXtBox, then PS360 after) sells more on a WiiU base that is closing in on 10m, you all will agree that Viper is right.... right? I mean your entire logic is piss poor stupid. Wii is not WiiU. They are not even close in the same relation to their competitors. Wii was vastly less powerful and vastly different technology. A 3rd party had to spend a lot of resources to get a game on the system, whereas they could use the same middleware engines to port between PS360. ITS NOT ABOUT RAW POWER!!! Its about the architecture and technologies available. WiiU is only 4x to 5x less powerful (vs over 10x with Wii) and has the same GPGPU based architecture that is compatible will all the same shaders and DX11 type of technologies. There is a reason Mark Rein said it could do UE4. Most games right now (that use UE) will be on UE3. As UE4 becomes predominate, 3rd parties will also have it working on WiiU. Game costs are too high to ignore a viable userbase. When using an engine like UE4, the costs to port to WiiU will be a small fraction of what their were in porting to Wii. This will make a game that even sells 100,000 a profitable venture on that platform and last I saw, CODBLOPS2 and AC3 both sold over that on an install base of less than 2m. Say what you want, but those games sold in line with the existing userbase. I guarantee you Ubisoft didn't expect any different based on the number of consoles actually sold. Now, everyone probably thought WiiU would get far closer to Nintendo's original 5.5m target, but it is what it is and they know Nintendo will rebound as more content comes this summer and fall. Otherwise why is Watch_Dogs and AC4 coming to WiiU at all? (according to your logic) Unlike Wii, the ROI will be there for even the later gen high quality next-gen games. UE4 and other modern scalable engines will make that happen. WiiU only owners (which there will be many due to actually getting 3rd party content this time) will buy it on WiiU because contrary to your opinion... most don't really care about the minor differences you'll visually see between PS4NXBX and WiiU. The games will be the same. Frankly if what you think were true, then there would be a whole lot more PC gamers as that platform is always the best looking/running. UE4 will exist on WiiU as will the other engines that are all designed for GPGPUs and scalable by default. The only games we won't see will be from those like EA who are taking a more deliberate assault on the platform. However, with a new CEO coming in, that'll potentially change as well.

That was refreshing to read.  Thank you.

superchunk said: UE4 will exist on WiiU as will the other engines that are all designed for GPGPUs and scalable by default. The only games we won't see will be from those like EA who are taking a more deliberate assault on the platform. However, with a new CEO coming in, that'll potentially change as well.

 

Is Metal Gear Rising an EA game? What about BioShock Infinite? Metal Gear Solid V is an EA game? How about Grand Theft Auto V? Star Wars 1313? Aliens: Colonial Marines (sucks, but this was even announced for the Wii U)? Tomb Raider? etc. etc. etc.

Ubi Soft is only one publisher, and even they have given the Wii U the screw over with Rayman (probably far more offensive than anything EA has done). This is kinda like saying someone is your best friend, but they just happened to sleep with your girlfriend that one time, other than that they're swell. 

How many of you even buy that many multiplats on the Wii U or 3DS? I'd bet many of the people making a huge fuss about this are doing so because they want a talking point against some idiot Sony/MS fanboy, moreso than the games themselves, lol. 

Soundwave said: superchunk said: UE4 will exist on WiiU as will the other engines that are all designed for GPGPUs and scalable by default. The only games we won't see will be from those like EA who are taking a more deliberate assault on the platform. However, with a new CEO coming in, that'll potentially change as well.   Is Metal Gear Rising an EA game? What about BioShock Infinite? Metal Gear Solid V is an EA game? How about Grand Theft Auto V? Star Wars 1313? Aliens: Colonial Marines (sucks, but this was even announced for the Wii U)? Tomb Raider? etc. etc. etc. Ubi Soft is only one publisher, and even they have given the Wii U the screw over with Rayman (probably far more offensive than anything EA has done). This is kinda like saying someone is your best friend, but they just happened to sleep with your girlfriend that one time, other than that they're swell.  How many of you even buy that many multiplats on the Wii U or 3DS? I'd bet many of the people making a huge fuss about this are doing so because they want a talking point against some idiot Sony/MS fanboy, moreso than the games themselves, lol.

How many of those games are developed with UE4?

Viper1 said: Soundwave said: superchunk said: UE4 will exist on WiiU as will the other engines that are all designed for GPGPUs and scalable by default. The only games we won't see will be from those like EA who are taking a more deliberate assault on the platform. However, with a new CEO coming in, that'll potentially change as well.   Is Metal Gear Rising an EA game? What about BioShock Infinite? Metal Gear Solid V is an EA game? How about Grand Theft Auto V? Star Wars 1313? Aliens: Colonial Marines (sucks, but this was even announced for the Wii U)? Tomb Raider? etc. etc. etc. Ubi Soft is only one publisher, and even they have given the Wii U the screw over with Rayman (probably far more offensive than anything EA has done). This is kinda like saying someone is your best friend, but they just happened to sleep with your girlfriend that one time, other than that they're swell.  How many of you even buy that many multiplats on the Wii U or 3DS? I'd bet many of the people making a huge fuss about this are doing so because they want a talking point against some idiot Sony/MS fanboy, moreso than the games themselves, lol.  How many of those games are developed with UE4?

The situation will be worse with games developed specifically around UE4, not better, if publishers can't even bother to port games that are of UE3-engine quality to the Wii U. UE4 will just make an already bad situation even worse, not better. 

You're not really helping your arguement by going down that road at all. 

I mean for crying out loud, Konami won't even give Platinum Games (one of the Wii U's most notable developers) the greenlight to port MGS Rising to the Wii U. I'm sure all these other third parties out of the goodness of their heart are going to make Wii U such a priority that they force their limited dev staffs to jump through 50 hoops to get a game designed for the PS4/720/high end PC to barely run on a Wii U. Yup. This seems plausible to me. 

Soundwave said: The situation will be worse with games developed specifically around UE4, not better, if publishers can't even bother to port games that are of UE3-engine quality to the Wii U.  You're not really helping your arguement by going down that road at all.  I mean for crying out loud, Konami won't even give Platinum Games (one of the Wii U's most notable developers) the greenlight to port MGS Rising to the Wii U. I'm sure all these other third parties out of the goodness of their heart are going to make Wii U such a priority that they force their limited dev staffs to jump through 50 hoops to get a game designed for the PS4/720/high end PC to barely run on a Wii U. Yup. This seems plausible to me.

MGR:R began development in early 2009.   Way before Platinum games ever even heard of Wii U much less owned enough final dev kits to develop a Wii U version.  In fact, PG didn't get to work on the game itself until late 2011.   And once they did get enough Wii U dev kits, what happened?  2 exclusives.   

Viper1 said: Soundwave said: The situation will be worse with games developed specifically around UE4, not better, if publishers can't even bother to port games that are of UE3-engine quality to the Wii U.  You're not really helping your arguement by going down that road at all.  I mean for crying out loud, Konami won't even give Platinum Games (one of the Wii U's most notable developers) the greenlight to port MGS Rising to the Wii U. I'm sure all these other third parties out of the goodness of their heart are going to make Wii U such a priority that they force their limited dev staffs to jump through 50 hoops to get a game designed for the PS4/720/high end PC to barely run on a Wii U. Yup. This seems plausible to me.  MGR:R began development in early 2009.   Way before Platinum games ever even heard of Wii U much less owned enough final dev kits to develop a Wii U version.  And once they did get enough Wii U dev kits, what happened?  2 exclusives.

The Platinum version of MGS Rising has not been in development that long. Cafe kits went out 2 years ago and the hardware is similar to the PS3/360. 

None of these publishers have an excuse, all of them have had Wii U kits kicking around since early 2011 and it's not like Wii U ever was some radical new tech that would take years and years for them to figure out, it's basically the same type of hardware they've been working on with PS3/360 for the last 7 years. 

On a technical basis or even a time line basis there is zero freaking reason why I cannot play MGS Rising on Wii U today. Or BioShock Infinite. Or Tomb Raider. There's no reason for GTAV not to be on Wii U. 

Especially when Black Ops 2 and ACIII and Tekken Tag Tourney 2 were ported without much fuss.

Things will be worse when Unreal Engine 4 really kicks in and developers ramp up development to engines specifically made for the PS4/720/high end PC. Not better. 

Didn't nintendo pay for those exclusives lol...

Basically porting an UE4 game to the Wii U will take too much time/work/money that it won't be worth it. They're better off using UE3.

superchunk said: So, when AC4 and Watch_Dogs (WD btw is a next-gen game being made first on WiiU/PS4/neXtBox, then PS360 after) sells more on a WiiU base that is closing in on 10m, you all will agree that Viper is right.... right? I mean your entire logic is piss poor stupid. Wii is not WiiU. They are not even close in the same relation to their competitors. Wii was vastly less powerful and vastly different technology. A 3rd party had to spend a lot of resources to get a game on the system, whereas they could use the same middleware engines to port between PS360. ITS NOT ABOUT RAW POWER!!! Its about the architecture and technologies available. WiiU is only 4x to 5x less powerful (vs over 10x with Wii) and has the same GPGPU based architecture that is compatible will all the same shaders and DX11 type of technologies. There is a reason Mark Rein said it could do UE4. Most games right now (that use UE) will be on UE3. As UE4 becomes predominate, 3rd parties will also have it working on WiiU. Game costs are too high to ignore a viable userbase. When using an engine like UE4, the costs to port to WiiU will be a small fraction of what their were in porting to Wii. This will make a game that even sells 100,000 a profitable venture on that platform and last I saw, CODBLOPS2 and AC3 both sold over that on an install base of less than 2m. Say what you want, but those games sold in line with the existing userbase. I guarantee you Ubisoft didn't expect any different based on the number of consoles actually sold. Now, everyone probably thought WiiU would get far closer to Nintendo's original 5.5m target, but it is what it is and they know Nintendo will rebound as more content comes this summer and fall. Otherwise why is Watch_Dogs and AC4 coming to WiiU at all? (according to your logic) Unlike Wii, the ROI will be there for even the later gen high quality next-gen games. UE4 and other modern scalable engines will make that happen. WiiU only owners (which there will be many due to actually getting 3rd party content this time) will buy it on WiiU because contrary to your opinion... most don't really care about the minor differences you'll visually see between PS4NXBX and WiiU. The games will be the same. Frankly if what you think were true, then there would be a whole lot more PC gamers as that platform is always the best looking/running. UE4 will exist on WiiU as will the other engines that are all designed for GPGPUs and scalable by default. The only games we won't see will be from those like EA who are taking a more deliberate assault on the platform. However, with a new CEO coming in, that'll potentially change as well.

You really think AC IV and Watch Dogs will sell better on Wii U? That's just not going to happen lol.

and these games aren't exactly next-gen as they are also coming to PS3 and 360. Add to the fact these are Ubisoft games and you get your answer as to why these games are coming to Wii U. Just Dance was extremely successful on the Wii and Ubisoft is planning on brining all the games they can to the Wii U. Ubisoft is trying to expand their Wii U fanbase beyond Just Dance.

@bold
I think I speak for everyone when saying that I think differnces between PS4 and Wii U games will be massive. For example, I expect Watch Dogs on PS4 to run at a higher frame rate and resolution than the Wii U version. Tha alone would be a big difference.

Soundwave said: TheLastStarFighter said: If Wii U sells a lot of systems, and games like Watch_dogs sell well, Wii U will get lots of ports, using UE3, UE4 or whatever. If it has no install base and Watch_Dogs bombs, it won't. Simple as that.   Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed bombed on Wii U. I don't see Watch Dogs breaking out. The PS3/360 SKUs will probably sell the best, with PS4/720 picking up some early adopter sales on the PS4/720, then the Wii U version last.  This is provided the game is even any good to begin with.  The Nintendo audience wants unique content, not ports. And it's been that way for a long time actually. Which is why all this bruhaha over UE4 on Wii U is silly to begin with. Nintendo fans barely buy multi-plats as is (and this goes back to the GameCube era at least).  The casual audience only wants dance/party games with the occassional bit of Mario once in a while, but that crowd is thinning out, so the above mentioned Nintendo gamer is primarily what is going to be the Wii U demographic IMO.

Pretty much everything you are saying is your own stereotypes and not supported by numbers, research or fact. Blops2 and AC3 didn't bomb on Wii U, they sold exactly as should be expected. These tites are very focused on N.A. and Europe, so lets compare attach rates of 360 and Wii U for these games: Blops2: 360: 16% Wii U: 9% AC3: 360: 5.7% Wii U: 6.7% Comparible, with Wii U even being higher on AC3. Now, if we look a little further we know both titles were late on Wii U. We know that for AAA titles a huge percentage of buyers are day 1 buyers. They won't wait. For Blops2 58% of sales were before the Wii U was released, for AC3 it was 42% purchasing week 1 alone. If you compare 360 sales and Wii U sales from the point they were both on the market at the same time, Blops on 360 only has a 6.7% attach rate going forward. So a greater percentage of Wii U owners were buying Blops2 after launch week than 360 owners. Further, you are saying that this is a tradition going back to Gamecube. This is completely false. 1st, Wii did not get a single AAA multiplat. 2nd, Gamecube owners had a higher attach rate than PS2 owners. There just wasn't many of them. Some examples: RE4: GC: 7.8% PS2: 2.4% NFS: Underground: GC: 5.5% PS2: 4.7% No, your stereotypes are completely unfounded. People who own a Nintendo system will buy a multiplat as much as someone who buys any other system. It just needs to be AAA quality, released on the same day and be good. Zombi U only did better simply because it was a reason to buy the system. People buy a new system to try the new experiences, and ZombiU was promoted along side MarioU and NintendoLand as games that showcased the gamepad. I can guarentee that people who buy a PS4 will have more interest in Killzone, Infamous and any other exclusive content than the improved version of AC4, though AC4 will do fine, percentage wise, just as it did on Wii U. If AAA games are available on Wii U the same day as on other systems, I expect they will sell at a similar rate as other systems. They just need to be of good quality, and they need to be the AAA level games. I expect Watch_Dogs to do very well. The only thing Nintendo needs to do is get more systems in more peoples hands, because 7-10% of 3 million isn't enough. It's a fantastic rate, but the base needs to be bigger.