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Viper1 on 02 April 2013
VGKing said:
Basically porting an UE4 game to the Wii U will take too much time/work/money that it won't be worth it. They're better off using UE3.

In other words, you didn't read anything in this thread other than the first post and the one you quoted below and you aren't familiar with how game engines work.

 

Anyone else?



The rEVOLution is not being televised

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VGKing on 02 April 2013
Viper1 said:
VGKing said:
Basically porting an UE4 game to the Wii U will take too much time/work/money that it won't be worth it. They're better off using UE3.

In other words, you didn't read anything in this thread other than the first post and the one you quoted below and you aren't familiar with how game engines work.

 

Anyone else?

No, I didn't read EVERY SINGLE COMMENT in this thread. Was that a requirement? 

No, I'm not a tech expert and I don't know exactly how game engines work. But I don't need to. Wii U won't get many(if any) UE4 games. It's already not getting UE3 games like some had said so once the industry makes that transistion into UE4, ports will be even more rare. Wii U as it will be in the position as the original Wii was. 

The only way I see developers taking their time/effort/money to  scale their game down to work on Wii U, is if the Wii U suddenly starts selling like hotcakes. This goes for all games, not just UE4.



TheLastStarFighter on 02 April 2013
VGKing said:
superchunk said:
So, when AC4 and Watch_Dogs (WD btw is a next-gen game being made first on WiiU/PS4/neXtBox, then PS360 after) sells more on a WiiU base that is closing in on 10m, you all will agree that Viper is right.... right?

I mean your entire logic is piss poor stupid.

Wii is not WiiU. They are not even close in the same relation to their competitors.

Wii was vastly less powerful and vastly different technology. A 3rd party had to spend a lot of resources to get a game on the system, whereas they could use the same middleware engines to port between PS360. ITS NOT ABOUT RAW POWER!!! Its about the architecture and technologies available.

WiiU is only 4x to 5x less powerful (vs over 10x with Wii) and has the same GPGPU based architecture that is compatible will all the same shaders and DX11 type of technologies. There is a reason Mark Rein said it could do UE4.

Most games right now (that use UE) will be on UE3. As UE4 becomes predominate, 3rd parties will also have it working on WiiU. Game costs are too high to ignore a viable userbase.

When using an engine like UE4, the costs to port to WiiU will be a small fraction of what their were in porting to Wii. This will make a game that even sells 100,000 a profitable venture on that platform and last I saw, CODBLOPS2 and AC3 both sold over that on an install base of less than 2m.

Say what you want, but those games sold in line with the existing userbase. I guarantee you Ubisoft didn't expect any different based on the number of consoles actually sold. Now, everyone probably thought WiiU would get far closer to Nintendo's original 5.5m target, but it is what it is and they know Nintendo will rebound as more content comes this summer and fall. Otherwise why is Watch_Dogs and AC4 coming to WiiU at all? (according to your logic)

Unlike Wii, the ROI will be there for even the later gen high quality next-gen games. UE4 and other modern scalable engines will make that happen. WiiU only owners (which there will be many due to actually getting 3rd party content this time) will buy it on WiiU because contrary to your opinion... most don't really care about the minor differences you'll visually see between PS4NXBX and WiiU. The games will be the same. Frankly if what you think were true, then there would be a whole lot more PC gamers as that platform is always the best looking/running.

UE4 will exist on WiiU as will the other engines that are all designed for GPGPUs and scalable by default. The only games we won't see will be from those like EA who are taking a more deliberate assault on the platform. However, with a new CEO coming in, that'll potentially change as well.

You really think AC IV and Watch Dogs will sell better on Wii U? That's just not going to happen lol.

and these games aren't exactly next-gen as they are also coming to PS3 and 360. Add to the fact these are Ubisoft games and you get your answer as to why these games are coming to Wii U. Just Dance was extremely successful on the Wii and Ubisoft is planning on brining all the games they can to the Wii U. Ubisoft is trying to expand their Wii U fanbase beyond Just Dance.

@bold
I think I speak for everyone when saying that I think differnces between PS4 and Wii U games will be massive. For example, I expect Watch Dogs on PS4 to run at a higher frame rate and resolution than the Wii U version. Tha alone would be a big difference.

@Bold.  No, you only speak for yourself.

Personally, I think PS4 will be technically far more impressive than WiiU and the images presented technically much more detailed.  However, the details don't have that great of an impact on the experience.  TV's max out at 1080p resolution, which is the most you can percieve on a 50" TV at typical viewing distance anyway.  The typical human eye sees at aproximately 27 frames per second unless they are frightened/alerted.  The greater detail available also requires much more time and skill to bring out... we can produce sculptures like Michaelangelo's David, but most people do not have the talent or time.  In reality, what most people see or experience between PS3 and PS4 will be somewhat similar.  It will be 3d, it will be pretty, it will be in HD.  It will be better, and tech heads will love the dramatic improvements in the tinyest details.  But for most people, if you told them "The Last of US" could only be done on PS4... they would believe you.



Viper1 on 02 April 2013
VGKing said:
Viper1 said:
VGKing said:
Basically porting an UE4 game to the Wii U will take too much time/work/money that it won't be worth it. They're better off using UE3.

In other words, you didn't read anything in this thread other than the first post and the one you quoted below and you aren't familiar with how game engines work.

 

Anyone else?

No, I didn't read EVERY SINGLE COMMENT in this thread. Was that a requirement? 

No, I'm not a tech expert and I don't know exactly how game engines work. But I don't need to. Wii U won't get many(if any) UE4 games. It's already not getting UE3 games like some had said so once the industry makes that transistion into UE4, ports will be even more rare. Wii U as it will be in the position as the original Wii was. 

The only way I see developers taking their time/effort/money to  scale their game down to work on Wii U, is if the Wii U suddenly starts selling like hotcakes. This goes for all games, not just UE4.

This is where it would help to read the whole thread.

The Wii used a fixed function GPu and s single core CPU.  That meant that porting games and game engines was a royal pain in the ass.    But the Wii U has the same architecture as the PS3/PS4/X360 and Next X.   Multiple cores and programmable shaders.  All modern game engines are based on those 2 facets.   And with UE4 being able to scale games in-engine, ports would be very simple making a ROI very likely even with low sales.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

VGKing on 02 April 2013
TheLastStarFighter said:
VGKing said:
superchunk said:
So, when AC4 and Watch_Dogs (WD btw is a next-gen game being made first on WiiU/PS4/neXtBox, then PS360 after) sells more on a WiiU base that is closing in on 10m, you all will agree that Viper is right.... right?

I mean your entire logic is piss poor stupid.

Wii is not WiiU. They are not even close in the same relation to their competitors.

Wii was vastly less powerful and vastly different technology. A 3rd party had to spend a lot of resources to get a game on the system, whereas they could use the same middleware engines to port between PS360. ITS NOT ABOUT RAW POWER!!! Its about the architecture and technologies available.

WiiU is only 4x to 5x less powerful (vs over 10x with Wii) and has the same GPGPU based architecture that is compatible will all the same shaders and DX11 type of technologies. There is a reason Mark Rein said it could do UE4.

Most games right now (that use UE) will be on UE3. As UE4 becomes predominate, 3rd parties will also have it working on WiiU. Game costs are too high to ignore a viable userbase.

When using an engine like UE4, the costs to port to WiiU will be a small fraction of what their were in porting to Wii. This will make a game that even sells 100,000 a profitable venture on that platform and last I saw, CODBLOPS2 and AC3 both sold over that on an install base of less than 2m.

Say what you want, but those games sold in line with the existing userbase. I guarantee you Ubisoft didn't expect any different based on the number of consoles actually sold. Now, everyone probably thought WiiU would get far closer to Nintendo's original 5.5m target, but it is what it is and they know Nintendo will rebound as more content comes this summer and fall. Otherwise why is Watch_Dogs and AC4 coming to WiiU at all? (according to your logic)

Unlike Wii, the ROI will be there for even the later gen high quality next-gen games. UE4 and other modern scalable engines will make that happen. WiiU only owners (which there will be many due to actually getting 3rd party content this time) will buy it on WiiU because contrary to your opinion... most don't really care about the minor differences you'll visually see between PS4NXBX and WiiU. The games will be the same. Frankly if what you think were true, then there would be a whole lot more PC gamers as that platform is always the best looking/running.

UE4 will exist on WiiU as will the other engines that are all designed for GPGPUs and scalable by default. The only games we won't see will be from those like EA who are taking a more deliberate assault on the platform. However, with a new CEO coming in, that'll potentially change as well.

You really think AC IV and Watch Dogs will sell better on Wii U? That's just not going to happen lol.

and these games aren't exactly next-gen as they are also coming to PS3 and 360. Add to the fact these are Ubisoft games and you get your answer as to why these games are coming to Wii U. Just Dance was extremely successful on the Wii and Ubisoft is planning on brining all the games they can to the Wii U. Ubisoft is trying to expand their Wii U fanbase beyond Just Dance.

@bold
I think I speak for everyone when saying that I think differnces between PS4 and Wii U games will be massive. For example, I expect Watch Dogs on PS4 to run at a higher frame rate and resolution than the Wii U version. Tha alone would be a big difference.

@Bold.  No, you only speak for yourself.

Personally, I think PS4 will be technically far more impressive than WiiU and the images presented technically much more detailed.  However, the details don't have that great of an impact on the experience.  TV's max out at 1080p resolution, which is the most you can percieve on a 50" TV at typical viewing distance anyway.  The typical human eye sees at aproximately 27 frames per second unless they are frightened/alerted.  The greater detail available also requires much more time and skill to bring out... we can produce sculptures like Michaelangelo's David, but most people do not have the talent or time.  In reality, what most people see or experience between PS3 and PS4 will be somewhat similar.  It will be 3d, it will be pretty, it will be in HD.  It will be better, and tech heads will love the dramatic improvements in the tinyest details.  But for most people, if you told them "The Last of US" could only be done on PS4... they would believe you.

Have you seen a PS4 game first hand? No.

I guarantee you that even someone who is not a tech nerd will be able to tell the difference between a PS4 and PS3 game if put side to side.

Another thing about PS4 and the next Xbox.....its not just better graphics or greater detail. It's better games and that means better gameplay, better AI....etc. A TRUE next-gen game won't be possible on 360 or PS3 or even Wii U. A TRUE next-gen game will actually make you think "THIS IS NEXT-GEN".



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VGKing on 02 April 2013
Viper1 said:
VGKing said:
Viper1 said:
VGKing said:
Basically porting an UE4 game to the Wii U will take too much time/work/money that it won't be worth it. They're better off using UE3.

In other words, you didn't read anything in this thread other than the first post and the one you quoted below and you aren't familiar with how game engines work.

 

Anyone else?

No, I didn't read EVERY SINGLE COMMENT in this thread. Was that a requirement? 

No, I'm not a tech expert and I don't know exactly how game engines work. But I don't need to. Wii U won't get many(if any) UE4 games. It's already not getting UE3 games like some had said so once the industry makes that transistion into UE4, ports will be even more rare. Wii U as it will be in the position as the original Wii was. 

The only way I see developers taking their time/effort/money to  scale their game down to work on Wii U, is if the Wii U suddenly starts selling like hotcakes. This goes for all games, not just UE4.

This is where it would help to read the whole thread.

The Wii used a fixed function GPu and s single core CPU.  That meant that porting games and game engines was a royal pain in the ass.    But the Wii U has the same architecture as the PS3/PS4/X360 and Next X.   Multiple cores and programmable shaders.  All modern game engines are based on those 2 facets.   And with UE4 being able to scale games in-engine, ports would be very simple making a ROI very likely even with low sales.

That just doesn't make any sense considering that PS3 and PS4 aren't the same architecture.

PS4 is very much like a PC as it uses x86 architecture. Wii U is much more like a PS3/360 as it is this very custom console design.

THERE IS A REASON UNREAL ENGINE 4 HAS "MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS" AND WHY PS4 IS IN THE MINIMUM RANGE. IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO RUN AN UE4 GAME ON WII U, IT WILL RUN HORRIBLY OR HAVE TO BE SO SCALED DOWN THAT IT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN UE3.



MaxwellAllen on 02 April 2013

Look, the questions that need to be answered are:

1. Why is EPIC not bothering to do it themselves, as opposed to fully supporting PS4/Xbax970

2. How much time would it take for a dev to do this on their own. (Additional time with no additional cost --no way that's accurate)

3. Why would a developer bother with a wiiu. (We don't know the number of units needed to sell in order to make a marginal profit on wiiu --I'm guessing very low)

Why epic made this choice is the big question though. If they really gave a shit, they wouldn't be dumping it on random devs to do with as they please. That's a big red flag.



_crazy_man_ on 02 April 2013
VGKing said:
Viper1 said:
VGKing said:
Viper1 said:
VGKing said:
Basically porting an UE4 game to the Wii U will take too much time/work/money that it won't be worth it. They're better off using UE3.

In other words, you didn't read anything in this thread other than the first post and the one you quoted below and you aren't familiar with how game engines work.

 

Anyone else?

No, I didn't read EVERY SINGLE COMMENT in this thread. Was that a requirement? 

No, I'm not a tech expert and I don't know exactly how game engines work. But I don't need to. Wii U won't get many(if any) UE4 games. It's already not getting UE3 games like some had said so once the industry makes that transistion into UE4, ports will be even more rare. Wii U as it will be in the position as the original Wii was. 

The only way I see developers taking their time/effort/money to  scale their game down to work on Wii U, is if the Wii U suddenly starts selling like hotcakes. This goes for all games, not just UE4.

This is where it would help to read the whole thread.

The Wii used a fixed function GPu and s single core CPU.  That meant that porting games and game engines was a royal pain in the ass.    But the Wii U has the same architecture as the PS3/PS4/X360 and Next X.   Multiple cores and programmable shaders.  All modern game engines are based on those 2 facets.   And with UE4 being able to scale games in-engine, ports would be very simple making a ROI very likely even with low sales.

That just doesn't make any sense considering that PS3 and PS4 aren't the same architecture.

PS4 is very much like a PC as it uses x86 architecture. Wii U is much more like a PS3/360 as it is this very custom console design.

THERE IS A REASON UNREAL ENGINE 4 HAS "MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS" AND WHY PS4 IS IN THE MINIMUM RANGE. IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO RUN AN UE4 GAME ON WII U, IT WILL RUN HORRIBLY OR HAVE TO BE SO SCALED DOWN THAT IT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN UE3.

Whoever said the PS4 was the min specs to run UE4?

Especially when UE4 can be used for smartphones and tablets.



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Viper1 on 02 April 2013
VGKing said:

That just doesn't make any sense considering that PS3 and PS4 aren't the same architecture.

PS4 is very much like a PC as it uses x86 architecture. Wii U is much more like a PS3/360 as it is this very custom console design.

THERE IS A REASON UNREAL ENGINE 4 HAS "MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS" AND WHY PS4 IS IN THE MINIMUM RANGE. IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO RUN AN UE4 GAME ON WII U, IT WILL RUN HORRIBLY OR HAVE TO BE SO SCALED DOWN THAT IT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN UE3.

You don't get what I mean by architecture.  I'm referring to the implementation of multiple cores and the use or programmable shaders.    The CPU architecture is irrelevant.

And what minimum requirements are you talking about?  They are no published minimum requirements.  Besides, it's a scalable engine.  We'll see UE4 on cell phones and web browsers.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Viper1 on 02 April 2013
MaxwellAllen said:

Look, the questions that need to be answered are:

1. Why is EPIC not bothering to do it themselves, as opposed to fully supporting PS4/Xbax970

2. How much time would it take for a dev to do this on their own. (Additional time with no additional cost --no way that's accurate)

3. Why would a developer bother with a wiiu. (We don't know the number of units needed to sell in order to make a marginal profit on wiiu --I'm guessing very low)

Why epic made this choice is the big question though. If they really gave a shit, they wouldn't be dumping it on random devs to do with as they please. That's a big red flag.

Epic didn't even port UE2.5 to Wii.  Ubisoft had to do it themselves.  As did some others.



The rEVOLution is not being televised