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Soundwave on 02 April 2013

The fact that UE4 is "scalable" really isn't the issue.

The fact is most devs are not going to bother to "scale" it. And scaling it down so far defeats the purpose of the engine in the first place which is to take advantage of high end GPUs. That's the whole reason for UE4's development.



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VGKing on 02 April 2013
BloodyRain said:
VGKing said:
Viper1 said:
VGKing said:

That just doesn't make any sense considering that PS3 and PS4 aren't the same architecture.

PS4 is very much like a PC as it uses x86 architecture. Wii U is much more like a PS3/360 as it is this very custom console design.

THERE IS A REASON UNREAL ENGINE 4 HAS "MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS" AND WHY PS4 IS IN THE MINIMUM RANGE. IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO RUN AN UE4 GAME ON WII U, IT WILL RUN HORRIBLY OR HAVE TO BE SO SCALED DOWN THAT IT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN UE3.

You don't get what I mean by architecture.  I'm referring to the implementation of multiple cores and the use or programmable shaders.    The CPU architecture is irrelevant.

And what minimum requirements are you talking about?  They are no published minimum requirements.  Besides, it's a scalable engine.  We'll see UE4 on cell phones and web browsers.

If UE4 was so scalable like you say, we would be seeing UE4 games on PS3/360. But there's a reason you won't ever see that......it's just not possible.

Are you denying the fact that Wii U doesn't meet the requirements that Epic themselves designed Unreal Engine 4 around?

Actually in the interview, it stated if people wanted to port ue4 to xbox 360/ps3 and wii u that they could. It just wouldn't look anywhere near as good as for pc/ps4/durango.

It also wouldn't perform as good. It's called a next-gen engine FOR A REASON.
Where as you see the Fox Engine/CryEngine/Frostbite built to run on current-gen but max out on next-gen, Unreal Engine 4 from what I understand is made exclusively for next-gen games. I haven't seen any UE4 PS3/360 games announced and I doubt we will see any.

The quality of lighting, graphics...etc that UE4 allows goes hand-in-hand with the power that PS4 will have. I dont know if Epic has said this themselves, but Unreal Engine 4 was built to run on PS4 and Xbox 720. It is not a coincidence that Unreal Engine 4 is barely coming out as PS4 is about to release.



MaxwellAllen on 02 April 2013

So it seems EPIC doesn't want to bother porting UE4 onto wiiu because of wiiu's hardware. Why else would they ignore the wiiu, while embracing the yet to launch PS4 and yet to be revealed Xbax728. (Don't kid yourself if you actually think EPIC is going to treat Sony/MS like nintendo) It's fairly obvious whats happening...

When they allow "other" devs to port it "on their own time" --that's what we call a "hands off" approach lol.

EPIC doesn't care about wiiu. End the thread. There is no spin left, guys... you're arguing in circles about why epic doesn't care... "But what if they did!?" "Or what if another dev did!?"

Until we see a story about UE4 making its way onto wiiu in any meaningful or comparable way to PS4/Xbax652 -- it's all just nonsense.



Viper1 on 02 April 2013
Soundwave said:
The fact that UE4 is "scalable" really isn't the issue.

The fact is most devs are not going to bother to "scale" it. And scaling it down so far defeats the purpose of the engine in the first place which is to take advantage of high end GPUs. That's the whole reason for UE4's development.

Back to the graphics only debate, eh?

At bold: You keep telling yourself that.   



The rEVOLution is not being televised

BloodyRain on 02 April 2013
VGKing said:
BloodyRain said:
VGKing said:
Viper1 said:
VGKing said:

That just doesn't make any sense considering that PS3 and PS4 aren't the same architecture.

PS4 is very much like a PC as it uses x86 architecture. Wii U is much more like a PS3/360 as it is this very custom console design.

THERE IS A REASON UNREAL ENGINE 4 HAS "MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS" AND WHY PS4 IS IN THE MINIMUM RANGE. IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO RUN AN UE4 GAME ON WII U, IT WILL RUN HORRIBLY OR HAVE TO BE SO SCALED DOWN THAT IT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN UE3.

You don't get what I mean by architecture.  I'm referring to the implementation of multiple cores and the use or programmable shaders.    The CPU architecture is irrelevant.

And what minimum requirements are you talking about?  They are no published minimum requirements.  Besides, it's a scalable engine.  We'll see UE4 on cell phones and web browsers.

If UE4 was so scalable like you say, we would be seeing UE4 games on PS3/360. But there's a reason you won't ever see that......it's just not possible.

Are you denying the fact that Wii U doesn't meet the requirements that Epic themselves designed Unreal Engine 4 around?

Actually in the interview, it stated if people wanted to port ue4 to xbox 360/ps3 and wii u that they could. It just wouldn't look anywhere near as good as for pc/ps4/durango.

It also wouldn't perform as good. It's called a next-gen engine FOR A REASON.
Where as you see the Fox Engine/CryEngine/Frostbite built to run on current-gen but max out on next-gen, Unreal Engine 4 from what I understand is made exclusively for next-gen games. I haven't seen any UE4 PS3/360 games announced and I doubt we will see any.

The quality of lighting, graphics...etc that UE4 allows goes hand-in-hand with the power that PS4 will have. I dont know if Epic has said this themselves, but Unreal Engine 4 was built to run on PS4 and Xbox 720. It is not a coincidence that Unreal Engine 4 is barely coming out as PS4 is about to release.

Oh, I was just disagreeing with the post that xbox 360 couldn't run ue4. It would just run a severly gimped version of it. I agree that ue4 is designed for next gen though, no arguments there.



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Tachikoma on 02 April 2013

Nobody is going to waste money porting UE4 knowing full well most of the advancements it has over UE3 won't run well (or at all) on the WiiU hardware, they'll just port in the assets and use UE3 in most cases, but i degress, unless things change with regards to WiiU popularity and third party sales, they probably won't even do that.



TheLastStarFighter on 02 April 2013
VGKing said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
VGKing said:
superchunk said:
So, when AC4 and Watch_Dogs (WD btw is a next-gen game being made first on WiiU/PS4/neXtBox, then PS360 after) sells more on a WiiU base that is closing in on 10m, you all will agree that Viper is right.... right?

I mean your entire logic is piss poor stupid.

Wii is not WiiU. They are not even close in the same relation to their competitors.

Wii was vastly less powerful and vastly different technology. A 3rd party had to spend a lot of resources to get a game on the system, whereas they could use the same middleware engines to port between PS360. ITS NOT ABOUT RAW POWER!!! Its about the architecture and technologies available.

WiiU is only 4x to 5x less powerful (vs over 10x with Wii) and has the same GPGPU based architecture that is compatible will all the same shaders and DX11 type of technologies. There is a reason Mark Rein said it could do UE4.

Most games right now (that use UE) will be on UE3. As UE4 becomes predominate, 3rd parties will also have it working on WiiU. Game costs are too high to ignore a viable userbase.

When using an engine like UE4, the costs to port to WiiU will be a small fraction of what their were in porting to Wii. This will make a game that even sells 100,000 a profitable venture on that platform and last I saw, CODBLOPS2 and AC3 both sold over that on an install base of less than 2m.

Say what you want, but those games sold in line with the existing userbase. I guarantee you Ubisoft didn't expect any different based on the number of consoles actually sold. Now, everyone probably thought WiiU would get far closer to Nintendo's original 5.5m target, but it is what it is and they know Nintendo will rebound as more content comes this summer and fall. Otherwise why is Watch_Dogs and AC4 coming to WiiU at all? (according to your logic)

Unlike Wii, the ROI will be there for even the later gen high quality next-gen games. UE4 and other modern scalable engines will make that happen. WiiU only owners (which there will be many due to actually getting 3rd party content this time) will buy it on WiiU because contrary to your opinion... most don't really care about the minor differences you'll visually see between PS4NXBX and WiiU. The games will be the same. Frankly if what you think were true, then there would be a whole lot more PC gamers as that platform is always the best looking/running.

UE4 will exist on WiiU as will the other engines that are all designed for GPGPUs and scalable by default. The only games we won't see will be from those like EA who are taking a more deliberate assault on the platform. However, with a new CEO coming in, that'll potentially change as well.

You really think AC IV and Watch Dogs will sell better on Wii U? That's just not going to happen lol.

and these games aren't exactly next-gen as they are also coming to PS3 and 360. Add to the fact these are Ubisoft games and you get your answer as to why these games are coming to Wii U. Just Dance was extremely successful on the Wii and Ubisoft is planning on brining all the games they can to the Wii U. Ubisoft is trying to expand their Wii U fanbase beyond Just Dance.

@bold
I think I speak for everyone when saying that I think differnces between PS4 and Wii U games will be massive. For example, I expect Watch Dogs on PS4 to run at a higher frame rate and resolution than the Wii U version. Tha alone would be a big difference.

@Bold.  No, you only speak for yourself.

Personally, I think PS4 will be technically far more impressive than WiiU and the images presented technically much more detailed.  However, the details don't have that great of an impact on the experience.  TV's max out at 1080p resolution, which is the most you can percieve on a 50" TV at typical viewing distance anyway.  The typical human eye sees at aproximately 27 frames per second unless they are frightened/alerted.  The greater detail available also requires much more time and skill to bring out... we can produce sculptures like Michaelangelo's David, but most people do not have the talent or time.  In reality, what most people see or experience between PS3 and PS4 will be somewhat similar.  It will be 3d, it will be pretty, it will be in HD.  It will be better, and tech heads will love the dramatic improvements in the tinyest details.  But for most people, if you told them "The Last of US" could only be done on PS4... they would believe you.

Have you seen a PS4 game first hand? No.

I guarantee you that even someone who is not a tech nerd will be able to tell the difference between a PS4 and PS3 game if put side to side.

Another thing about PS4 and the next Xbox.....its not just better graphics or greater detail. It's better games and that means better gameplay, better AI....etc. A TRUE next-gen game won't be possible on 360 or PS3 or even Wii U. A TRUE next-gen game will actually make you think "THIS IS NEXT-GEN".

Tell the difference side by side?  Absolutely.  Dramatically different visual experience?  I doubt it.  Dramatically different gameplay experience?  No.  AI is limited more by the ability of programers than by the ability of a computer to execute programs.  PC games don't have crazy AI right now.  If more ram and faster processors was what it took to have better AI, we would have been running from Skynet years ago.



Soundwave on 02 April 2013
Tachikoma said:
Nobody is going to waste money porting UE4 knowing full well most of the advancements it has over UE3 won't run well (or at all) on the WiiU hardware, they'll just port in the assets and use UE3 in most cases, but i degress, unless things change with regards to WiiU popularity and third party sales, they probably won't even do that.


Everyone basically knows this exactly how things will turn out. Some people just don't want to admit it. 



Viper1 on 02 April 2013

Fellas, I'm just going to ask you all to go research what a game engine is and what UE4 is. and then come back to this debate.

So many of you are stuck on graphics and are ignoring the development pipeline. If you think a game engine is just a means to produce a certain level of graphics, you need some education.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

MaxwellAllen on 02 April 2013
Tachikoma said:
Nobody is going to waste money porting UE4 knowing full well most of the advancements it has over UE3 won't run well (or at all) on the WiiU hardware, they'll just port in the assets and use UE3 in most cases, but i degress, unless things change with regards to WiiU popularity and third party sales, they probably won't even do that.


This guy agrees with me. BAM! Lock it Up! #LockItUp