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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo's down, but not out.

DanneSandin said:
tbone51 said:
Mazty said:
DanneSandin said:
Mazty said:

Yeah it does. Something like Heavy Rain is easy (can't really fail) but mature. Are you telling me that's a casual game?

Exactly my point. You are all saying that a handful of exclusives will shift the Wii U. That's absurd. Simply put the Wii U does not have a large enough line up to be successful imo as even in best case scenarios it won't shift many consoles unless something radically changes.

I think there's a difference in being successful and ending up in 3rd place; they're not mutually exclusive. Nintendo can end up in 3rd place (quite likely) but they can still be successful. I would never call the PS3 a success since it lost so much money for Sony and lost a lot of market share as well. All in all PS3 was a failure, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a good console with good sales. I think you lack perspective when you say that Wii U won't be successful. As long as it makes Nintendo money it'll be more of a success than PS3, and possibly PS4 and Xbox720.

So the console that helped secure Sony the next-gen optical format and has sold over 70 mill isn't a success....how? Lost market share =/= failure. It's not as if they have 10% of the market. Also the PS3 hardware started turning over a profit summer 2010...
"All in all the PS3 was a failure" - I'm guessing you don't understand business? Almost a 3rd of the market, secured bluray and the base hardware started turning a profit a few years ago. How is that a failure? 

Personally I think the Wii U will shift less then 25 mill units. I can't see it actually making Nintendo money yet I see it pushing core gamers away from the Nintendo label onto either MS or Sony. Losing your fan base and not making money? Now that IS a failure. I doubt a handful of expected franchise titles will help save it either - as I said if every single SSB fan went out and bought a Wii U, we're only talking about 10 million consoles. The great thing with the PS360 is that you can say with a straight face that it's likely that those who like CoD may not be into other highly selling series such as Fifa, GT or Uncharted.



Oooooooo...K? SSB only pushed GCN in terms of system sellers. Wii had MK+SMG doing that mostly for it. Why do you think SSB is the only game pushing Wii U? Also, it seems like your very VERY biased to Nintendo, cuz wat you say about attach ratio's/etc you only point out nintendo and exclude everything else? Be fair bro,...... BE FAIR

I don't think he CAN be fair... he's spinning these things like hell! And he's even dropped the attach ratio argument when we brought up that neither of PS1 or PS2 had any decent selling games if applying his arguments.

Yeah, gotta love the double standards; he points out Nintendo's relatively small loss on Wii U hardware as a "failure" yet overlooks the PS3's multi-BILLION dollar losses.



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curl-6 said:

Mazty said:

Lost market share =/= failure. 

Exactly, so the Wii U will not be one even if it doesn't match Wii sales.

Because it will almost certainly make more money than the PS3; Sony lost nearly  $5 BILLION in the first few years of that system, Nintendo will never lose that much on Wii U.

No that's a fallacy as lost market share isn't the only factor. Also the PS3 holds, like the 360, about a third of the market. Going from ~40% to maybe 15% shows a gross miscalculation by Nintendo.

Also I know Sony as an entire corporation lost $5 bill....Any links for the $5bill loss on the PS3 alone?



curl-6 said:
DanneSandin said:
tbone51 said:



Oooooooo...K? SSB only pushed GCN in terms of system sellers. Wii had MK+SMG doing that mostly for it. Why do you think SSB is the only game pushing Wii U? Also, it seems like your very VERY biased to Nintendo, cuz wat you say about attach ratio's/etc you only point out nintendo and exclude everything else? Be fair bro,...... BE FAIR

I don't think he CAN be fair... he's spinning these things like hell! And he's even dropped the attach ratio argument when we brought up that neither of PS1 or PS2 had any decent selling games if applying his arguments.

Yeah, gotta love the double standards; he points out Nintendo's relatively small loss on Wii U hardware as a "failure" yet overlooks the PS3's multi-BILLION dollar losses.

Yeah, he really has some seriously flawed logic... Just like you said, how Wii U is a failure for lossing a small amount of money, and that PS3 is a stunning success, and that having a 10% attach rate on a game for a Nintendo console is bad, while the same facts don't seem to apply to a 10% ratio on a Sony console.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

Mazty said:
curl-6 said:

Mazty said:

Lost market share =/= failure. 

Exactly, so the Wii U will not be one even if it doesn't match Wii sales.

Because it will almost certainly make more money than the PS3; Sony lost nearly  $5 BILLION in the first few years of that system, Nintendo will never lose that much on Wii U.

No that's a fallacy as lost market share isn't the only factor. Also the PS3 holds, like the 360, about a third of the market. Going from ~40% to maybe 15% shows a gross miscalculation by Nintendo.

Also I know Sony as an entire corporation lost $5 bill....Any links for the $5bill loss on the PS3 alone?

Isn't that drop similar to Sony's drop from 75% to 30%?



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

Most of the people here that keep ranting about Nintendo being doomed WANT them to be doomed so their opinions should not be taken seriously anyway, as they are speaking out of emotions, not logic. Those who are logical and/or do not have some sort of grudge against Nintendo, realize that Nintendo, and Wii U, will inevitably recover. Hell, things can really only get better for Wii U at this point. Obviously sales will improve when it actually gets some notible games. You'd think most logical people would grasp this simple concept. But unfortunately that's what hatred does, it clouds judgement in favor of bias. 3DS I bleieve is set to take off in the West as well, with games like Monster Hunter and Pokemon on the horizon. If I can be swayed to purchase a 3DS (a former 3DS cynic, if not downright hater), and enjoy it immensely, I have a good feeling about its coming success in the future.

Will Nintendo return to the glory days of Wii/DS? Probably not, but that is mainly a result of the state of the economy, and not Nintendo themselves.



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DanneSandin said:
Mazty said:
curl-6 said:

Mazty said:

Lost market share =/= failure. 

Exactly, so the Wii U will not be one even if it doesn't match Wii sales.

Because it will almost certainly make more money than the PS3; Sony lost nearly  $5 BILLION in the first few years of that system, Nintendo will never lose that much on Wii U.

No that's a fallacy as lost market share isn't the only factor. Also the PS3 holds, like the 360, about a third of the market. Going from ~40% to maybe 15% shows a gross miscalculation by Nintendo.

Also I know Sony as an entire corporation lost $5 bill....Any links for the $5bill loss on the PS3 alone?

Isn't that drop similar to Sony's drop from 75% to 30%?

Yep. Sony cocked up in several ways - last to market, highest price etc. Maybe that's the reason they have been first on the scene with the PS4? Still though Sony have managed to secure bluray and retain a sizeable amount of the market. 15% of the market is really quite pitiful and the question has to be asked with such an amount, is that company still relevant?

DanneSandin said:

Yeah, he really has some seriously flawed logic... Just like you said, how Wii U is a failure for lossing a small amount of money, and that PS3 is a stunning success, and that having a 10% attach rate on a game for a Nintendo console is bad, while the same facts don't seem to apply to a 10% ratio on a Sony console.

No one said the PS3 was a stunning success. Try not to make strawman arguments. 

The issue is go look at the "spike" in sales SSBB caused for the wii. It simply didn't. At most it caused a 250k boost for a week, and then went straight back down to standard levels. SSB clearly isn't a system seller and I can't see why people think it is. 



I fully expect the Wii U to recover. It won't happen right away, and more than likely, it'll get worse before it gets better. I honestly see the Wii U sitting somewhere around 55-60m lifetime sales, and the fact that they're not loosing a ton of money per console bodes well for them as well. I don't have a Wii U yet, as until recently I've had a limited amount of money to throw around. I WILL buy a Wii U though, and I'm sure like every other Nintendo console I've owned since the NES I'll love the crap out of the games that are released for it. That said, more than likely I'll buy a PS4 as well, but not right away. I'm firmly in the camp that games sell systems, and it's not always the strongest console that wins the gen. (In fact, Most of the time it's the weakest system. Weird.)

That said, I'm quite looking foward to E3 and seeing what Nintendo brings to the table.



I'm the result of someone exclusively playing Final Fantasy XI from the PS2 release till 2010, and only stopping for small bouts of catch up. 

3DS Friend Code: Tate - Uh.. stuff happened... I need to get a new 3DS 

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FFXI Character: Formally Tatewaki of Cerberus, Now Arngrim Of Sylph.  Retired forever. ; ;

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Mazty said:
DanneSandin said:
Mazty said:
curl-6 said:

Mazty said:

Lost market share =/= failure. 

Exactly, so the Wii U will not be one even if it doesn't match Wii sales.

Because it will almost certainly make more money than the PS3; Sony lost nearly  $5 BILLION in the first few years of that system, Nintendo will never lose that much on Wii U.

No that's a fallacy as lost market share isn't the only factor. Also the PS3 holds, like the 360, about a third of the market. Going from ~40% to maybe 15% shows a gross miscalculation by Nintendo.

Also I know Sony as an entire corporation lost $5 bill....Any links for the $5bill loss on the PS3 alone?

Isn't that drop similar to Sony's drop from 75% to 30%?

Yep. Sony cocked up in several ways - last to market, highest price etc. Maybe that's the reason they have been first on the scene with the PS4? Still though Sony have managed to secure bluray and retain a sizeable amount of the market. 15% of the market is really quite pitiful and the question has to be asked with such an amount, is that company still relevant?

Nintendo was first to the scene with Wii U, remember? And I don't know where you're pulling these 15% from? As far as I know Wii U currently has 100% of 8th gen sales... Fact. and Sony hasn't secured shit with bluray. physical format is dying, digital is what it's all about, and I still haven't seen DVD die out. bluray is just another format out there, competing with DVD and digital.

It would seem that you're ignoring history. GC had something like 15%, right? I think that's where I got that number from. Was Nintendo really NOT relevant after the GC? Wii was as relevant as a console can be, so that last question from you really was ignorant.

And you still ignore the price Sony had to pay to retain a sizeable market share. They lost billions. Like I said before, It's a somewhat of a Pyrrhic victory



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

DanneSandin said:
Mazty said:

Yep. Sony cocked up in several ways - last to market, highest price etc. Maybe that's the reason they have been first on the scene with the PS4? Still though Sony have managed to secure bluray and retain a sizeable amount of the market. 15% of the market is really quite pitiful and the question has to be asked with such an amount, is that company still relevant?

Nintendo was first to the scene with Wii U, remember? And I don't know where you're pulling these 15% from? As far as I know Wii U currently has 100% of 8th gen sales... Fact. and Sony hasn't secured shit with bluray. physical format is dying, digital is what it's all about, and I still haven't seen DVD die out. bluray is just another format out there, competing with DVD and digital.

It would seem that you're ignoring history. GC had something like 15%, right? I think that's where I got that number from. Was Nintendo really NOT relevant after the GC? Wii was as relevant as a console can be, so that last question from you really was ignorant.

And you still ignore the price Sony had to pay to retain a sizeable market share. They lost billions. Like I said before, It's a somewhat of a Pyrrhic victory


Let me rephrase "sony were first to the scene with a console that shows noticable improvements over the existing generation". 

Hasn't secured shit with bluray? What a technical phrase. Remember how it beat HD-DVD? Remember how in 2010 350 million bluray films were sold? Or how they are going to overtake DVD?

http://www.techradar.com/news/video/blu-ray/blu-ray-player-sales-to-overtake-dvd-players-by-2015-1030442

Yeah please refrain from talking about a topic you haven't researched. DVD doesn't need to be dead for bluray to be successful. Do you realise that Sony actually own one of the bluray printing foundrys meaning they stand to gain a lot from most sales? Plus Sony Pictures? 
Do you have evidence that the loss was due to PS3? Or the company as a whole?



Mazty said:
DanneSandin said:
Mazty said:

Yep. Sony cocked up in several ways - last to market, highest price etc. Maybe that's the reason they have been first on the scene with the PS4? Still though Sony have managed to secure bluray and retain a sizeable amount of the market. 15% of the market is really quite pitiful and the question has to be asked with such an amount, is that company still relevant?

Nintendo was first to the scene with Wii U, remember? And I don't know where you're pulling these 15% from? As far as I know Wii U currently has 100% of 8th gen sales... Fact. and Sony hasn't secured shit with bluray. physical format is dying, digital is what it's all about, and I still haven't seen DVD die out. bluray is just another format out there, competing with DVD and digital.

It would seem that you're ignoring history. GC had something like 15%, right? I think that's where I got that number from. Was Nintendo really NOT relevant after the GC? Wii was as relevant as a console can be, so that last question from you really was ignorant.

And you still ignore the price Sony had to pay to retain a sizeable market share. They lost billions. Like I said before, It's a somewhat of a Pyrrhic victory


Let me rephrase "sony were first to the scene with a console that shows noticable improvements over the existing generation". 

Hasn't secured shit with bluray? What a technical phrase. Remember how it beat HD-DVD? Remember how in 2010 350 million bluray films were sold? Or how they are going to overtake DVD?

http://www.techradar.com/news/video/blu-ray/blu-ray-player-sales-to-overtake-dvd-players-by-2015-1030442

Yeah please refrain from talking about a topic you haven't researched. DVD doesn't need to be dead for bluray to be successful. Do you realise that Sony actually own one of the bluray printing foundrys meaning they stand to gain a lot from most sales? Plus Sony Pictures? 
Do you have evidence that the loss was due to PS3? Or the company as a whole?

Bluray might overtake DVD in 2015, but the question then is; will it be able to beat digital format? How popular will the digital format be then? A LOT of people are streaming their movies today, or downloading them. Again, it's all about perspective. DVD might be phased out, and at best, bluray will be the dominant format for a short while, before digital format overtakes it. And again, let me use the phrase Pyrrhic victory. From wiki: "A Pyrrhic victory is a victory with such a devastating cost that it carries the implication that another such victory will ultimately lead to defeat. Someone who wins a Pyrrhic victory has been victorious in some way; however, the heavy toll negates any sense of achievement or profit."

I think every one agrees on that Sony has lost shit loads of money on the PS3. Didn't they lose somewhere around $200 per sold console the first year? Let me show you a few pictures:

Take a look at those pictures before you ponder on this one:

Clearly Nintendo has managed to do quite well for themselves, even during the GC days (2001-2006). In no regards would I call Sony more successful than Nintendo just by looking at those numbers...



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.