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appolose said:
Mazty said:
NintendoPie said:
Mazty said:


Tu quoque fallacy. Please address the actual argument and refrain from fallacies. 

You are impossible to talk to. 

- We can compare HandHelds Consoles and Home Consoles. They have common factors, including gaming (the main point of Gaming Consoles.)

- No one would think to compare the things you've brought up, all you're doing is being sarcastic.

I'm done. Those are my final points.

No I'm not impossbile to talk to; I've just been educated in how to debate correctly. Your argument is completely vaccous and based on utterly arbritary reasoning, reasoning which you have yet to even attempt to justify. I'm guessing you haven't finished high school? I say that because your argument is devoid of logic - compare handhelds to consoles because they do generally the same thing, but don't compare other items that do generally the same thing as one another. The hell?

It's disappointing to see your replies lack substance and then see the attitude you convey when this is pointed out. 

I would agree with NinPie on this, actually.  The main purpose of both handheld and home consoles is gaming, and, thus, comparing sales trends between them is not necessarily apples-to-oranges.  The 3DS's  very weak start and partial recovery can be examined to see if the Wii U is capable of doing so as well (software, advertising, pricing, etc.).

The main purpose of a micra and an aston martin is to get from point A - B. 

Both farmville and Black Ops are games. 

Now who compares the above? The point of a handheld it to provide PORTABLE GAMING, not just gaming. 



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Max King of the Wild said:
VGKing said:
Mnementh said:
Mazty said:
 

 

 

(Referring specifically to the PS3 vs Gamecube comparison)
That only makes the Gamecube look even worse. PS3 was $600, Gamcube was what? 200?

Anyway PS3 was pretty much guaranteed 3rd party support no matter how poorly it would have sold. Wii U doesn't have that so a slow start is something it may never recover from. It won't peak in its 5th or 6th year like PS3 has.

I think it will. Price cut and games will assure it that. Nintendo expects to ship 1 million units in Jan-March to increase total sales to 4 million. They will most likely miss that number by a good amount considering Nintendo only sold 120k in NA for 2/3rds of the quarter and will most likely sell similarly in March. And selling 175k in Japan and be lucky to pass 200k by the end of March... With things looking worse than NA in Europe. and to top it all off Nintendo wasn't supply constrained for fourth quarter and probably had a lot of stock left over from demand not meeting expectations. So.. how many units could they possibly ship for the entire year if after 6 months they can't even reach 4 million with no holiday sales to help? They will be lucky to reach 6 million (shipped) by it's first year anniversary which means ~5million sold.

So you don't think with a lower price and better sw Nintendo can improve sales in the next few years? I think they will. However, as I made a thread about it, I don't think sales will increase by how much Nintendo fans are wanting or expecting it to. Next years sales might get close to 8million or something and 4th or 5th year sales might get close to 12mil.

It just doesn't make sense. History has shown us that Nintendo consoles peak early in their life cycle. Gamecube had price + games and that didn't help it against the PS2. Now, I'm not saying Wii U is another Gamecube but if we rate Wii U on a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 equals performance similar to Gamecube and 10 is closer to Wii......I would rate the Wii U a 5. It won't fail like Gamecube, but it won't succeed like Wii either.



Lets compare those really bad handhelp game consoles that only have 1 game on it and is just black dots on the screen to the 3ds!



VGKing said:

It just doesn't make sense. History has shown us that Nintendo consoles peak early in their life cycle. Gamecube had price + games and that didn't help it against the PS2. Now, I'm not saying Wii U is another Gamecube but if we rate Wii U on a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 equals performance similar to Gamecube and 10 is closer to Wii......I would rate the Wii U a 5. It won't fail like Gamecube, but it won't succeed like Wii either.

I completely agree with your conclusion, that the WiiU will sell somewhere between GC and Wii (well, thats a lot of free space between the two). But to the first (early peak): I think SNES had good sales over a long time.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

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Mazty said:
appolose said:
Mazty said:
NintendoPie said:
Mazty said:


Tu quoque fallacy. Please address the actual argument and refrain from fallacies. 

You are impossible to talk to. 

- We can compare HandHelds Consoles and Home Consoles. They have common factors, including gaming (the main point of Gaming Consoles.)

- No one would think to compare the things you've brought up, all you're doing is being sarcastic.

I'm done. Those are my final points.

No I'm not impossbile to talk to; I've just been educated in how to debate correctly. Your argument is completely vaccous and based on utterly arbritary reasoning, reasoning which you have yet to even attempt to justify. I'm guessing you haven't finished high school? I say that because your argument is devoid of logic - compare handhelds to consoles because they do generally the same thing, but don't compare other items that do generally the same thing as one another. The hell?

It's disappointing to see your replies lack substance and then see the attitude you convey when this is pointed out. 

I would agree with NinPie on this, actually.  The main purpose of both handheld and home consoles is gaming, and, thus, comparing sales trends between them is not necessarily apples-to-oranges.  The 3DS's  very weak start and partial recovery can be examined to see if the Wii U is capable of doing so as well (software, advertising, pricing, etc.).

The main purpose of a micra and an aston martin is to get from point A - B. 

Both farmville and Black Ops are games. 

Now who compares the above? The point of a handheld it to provide PORTABLE GAMING, not just gaming. 

The experience provided by handheld and home consoles are similar enough as to warrent comparisons; that is the point. And, by gaming, I'm being a little more specific than saying they both entertain.  The sales of both are driven by very similar means.  For instance, if some mega-selling software came out on the 3DS, it could bolster the handheld's sales in general.  So could it be for the Wii U.  Moreover, that which caused the 3DS's sales uplift (pricing, modeling, software, or whatever else happened) might be done to the Wii U.  That's pretty much what happened with the PS3, anyways.



Okami

To lavish praise upon this title, the assumption of a common plateau between player and game must be made.  I won't open my unworthy mouth.

Christian (+50).  Arminian(+20). AG adherent(+20). YEC(+20). Pre-tribulation Pre-milleniumist (+10).  Republican (+15) Capitalist (+15).  Pro-Nintendo (+5).  Misc. stances (+30).  TOTAL SCORE: 195
  http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=43870 <---- Fun theology quiz
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Mnementh said:
VGKing said:
 

It just doesn't make sense. History has shown us that Nintendo consoles peak early in their life cycle. Gamecube had price + games and that didn't help it against the PS2. Now, I'm not saying Wii U is another Gamecube but if we rate Wii U on a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 equals performance similar to Gamecube and 10 is closer to Wii......I would rate the Wii U a 5. It won't fail like Gamecube, but it won't succeed like Wii either.

I completely agree with your conclusion, that the WiiU will sell somewhere between GC and Wii (well, thats a lot of free space between the two). But to the first (early peak): I think SNES had good sales over a long time.

And history was also showing us that Nintendo home consoles sales decreased with every generation... until the Wii came along and broke that trend.

History can be useful for showing correlation, but you have to examine it more deeply before you can make any conclusions.



Okami

To lavish praise upon this title, the assumption of a common plateau between player and game must be made.  I won't open my unworthy mouth.

Christian (+50).  Arminian(+20). AG adherent(+20). YEC(+20). Pre-tribulation Pre-milleniumist (+10).  Republican (+15) Capitalist (+15).  Pro-Nintendo (+5).  Misc. stances (+30).  TOTAL SCORE: 195
  http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=43870 <---- Fun theology quiz
appolose said:
Mazty said:

The main purpose of a micra and an aston martin is to get from point A - B. 

Both farmville and Black Ops are games. 

Now who compares the above? The point of a handheld it to provide PORTABLE GAMING, not just gaming. 

The experience provided by handheld and home consoles are similar enough as to warrent comparisons; that is the point. And, by gaming, I'm being a little more specific than saying they both entertain.  The sales of both are driven by very similar means.  For instance, if some mega-selling software came out on the 3DS, it could bolster the handheld's sales in general.  So could it be for the Wii U.  Moreover, that which caused the 3DS's sales uplift (pricing, modeling, software, or whatever else happened) might be done to the Wii U.  That's pretty much what happened with the PS3, anyways.

In what way?!?! The consoles have local multiplay, better graphics, can play media like DVD, bluray etc and of course, can be put onto a 42"+ TV.

A handheld does none of that.

 If a new fiesta comes out with new features, it will sell, just as if a new BMW 5 series comes out with new features. You are comparing a micra to an Aston Martin, and farmville to CoD. Stop it; it's absurd.



Mazty said:
appolose said:
Mazty said:

The main purpose of a micra and an aston martin is to get from point A - B. 

Both farmville and Black Ops are games. 

Now who compares the above? The point of a handheld it to provide PORTABLE GAMING, not just gaming. 

The experience provided by handheld and home consoles are similar enough as to warrent comparisons; that is the point. And, by gaming, I'm being a little more specific than saying they both entertain.  The sales of both are driven by very similar means.  For instance, if some mega-selling software came out on the 3DS, it could bolster the handheld's sales in general.  So could it be for the Wii U.  Moreover, that which caused the 3DS's sales uplift (pricing, modeling, software, or whatever else happened) might be done to the Wii U.  That's pretty much what happened with the PS3, anyways.

In what way?!?! The consoles have local multiplay, better graphics, can play media like DVD, bluray etc and of course, can be put onto a 42"+ TV.

A handheld does none of that.

 If a new fiesta comes out with new features, it will sell, just as if a new BMW 5 series comes out with new features. You are comparing a micra to an Aston Martin, and farmville to CoD. Stop it; it's absurd.

The primary way in which they compare is the type of electronic gaming they provide: that is far more relevant than anything you listed. And, in the Wii's case, it was the Wiimote and the rather revolutionary games Nintendo made as opposed to what you listed.  I'd argue, indeed, that it is primarily software that drives sales (especially in Nintendo's case), which, is what both handhelds and consoles have, of course. So, to argue that which bolstered a handheld's sales (software, price point, etc) could not possibly do so for a home console is unwarrented, I would say.



Okami

To lavish praise upon this title, the assumption of a common plateau between player and game must be made.  I won't open my unworthy mouth.

Christian (+50).  Arminian(+20). AG adherent(+20). YEC(+20). Pre-tribulation Pre-milleniumist (+10).  Republican (+15) Capitalist (+15).  Pro-Nintendo (+5).  Misc. stances (+30).  TOTAL SCORE: 195
  http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=43870 <---- Fun theology quiz
appolose said:
Mazty said:

In what way?!?! The consoles have local multiplay, better graphics, can play media like DVD, bluray etc and of course, can be put onto a 42"+ TV.

A handheld does none of that.

 If a new fiesta comes out with new features, it will sell, just as if a new BMW 5 series comes out with new features. You are comparing a micra to an Aston Martin, and farmville to CoD. Stop it; it's absurd.

The primary way in which they compare is the type of electronic gaming they provide: that is far more relevant than anything you listed. And, in the Wii's case, it was the Wiimote and the rather revolutionary games Nintendo made as opposed to what you listed.  I'd argue, indeed, that it is primarily software that drives sales (especially in Nintendo's case), which, is what both handhelds and consoles have, of course. So, to argue that which bolstered a handheld's sales (software, price point, etc) could not possibly do so for a home console is unwarrented, I would say.

That wasn't the original point though...I do agree that price point and content are essential, but then again that's a basic rule for any and all products. However I don't agree in people directly comparing sales figures of handhelds to consoles as the markets (read intended audience) are so vastly different it really is like comparing BMW to Kia, which is what other users were doing. 



Mazty said:
appolose said:
Mazty said:

In what way?!?! The consoles have local multiplay, better graphics, can play media like DVD, bluray etc and of course, can be put onto a 42"+ TV.

A handheld does none of that.

 If a new fiesta comes out with new features, it will sell, just as if a new BMW 5 series comes out with new features. You are comparing a micra to an Aston Martin, and farmville to CoD. Stop it; it's absurd.

The primary way in which they compare is the type of electronic gaming they provide: that is far more relevant than anything you listed. And, in the Wii's case, it was the Wiimote and the rather revolutionary games Nintendo made as opposed to what you listed.  I'd argue, indeed, that it is primarily software that drives sales (especially in Nintendo's case), which, is what both handhelds and consoles have, of course. So, to argue that which bolstered a handheld's sales (software, price point, etc) could not possibly do so for a home console is unwarrented, I would say.

That wasn't the original point though...I do agree that price point and content are essential, but then again that's a basic rule for any and all products. However I don't agree in people directly comparing sales figures of handhelds to consoles as the markets (read intended audience) are so vastly different it really is like comparing BMW to Kia, which is what other users were doing. 


My  point was that a comparison between the two is not necessarily invalid.  I'm not saying that a comparison between the two is automatically correct, either. Indeed, what most people are doing when comparing the 3DS to the Wii U is merely positing the possibility, not inevitability, of the Wii U following suit.  You can examine what caused the sales of the 3DS and see if they might apply to the Wii U (and, since the 3DS's price point and software content were adjusted, the essentials, all the more reason to at least hint at a connection to the Wii U's sale, should it do the same changing) and question if it will, but it should not be dismissed out of hand, I think.

Also, I do not think the difference between handhelds and homes are as vast as the BMW to KIA, or Farmville to COD.



Okami

To lavish praise upon this title, the assumption of a common plateau between player and game must be made.  I won't open my unworthy mouth.

Christian (+50).  Arminian(+20). AG adherent(+20). YEC(+20). Pre-tribulation Pre-milleniumist (+10).  Republican (+15) Capitalist (+15).  Pro-Nintendo (+5).  Misc. stances (+30).  TOTAL SCORE: 195
  http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=43870 <---- Fun theology quiz