Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii U NA Sales Dismal

burninmylight said:
Mazty said:

So if you want to compare handhelds to consoles using the above, are you going to ommit smartphones and tablets?

Handhelds are clearly not aimed at the same market, therefore comparing sales is utterly pointless. You may as well compare compact car sales to 18 wheelers. 

It appears that you see different devices as being unable to have a hand in the same market, like a company is only allowed to go after one specific market at a time when it produces a product. You're basically saying "Product A is a ___ made primarily for the X Market; therefore, it cannot compete with Product B in  the Y Market, even though they share much functionality and there is a significant portion of consumers that may choose one over the other in the Y Market because many of their functions overlap."

 

You want a visual? Refer to the Euler diagram below. The circles in the bottom right rectangle represent the video game market (A), the home console market (B), and the smartphone/tablet market (C). B and C are independent of each other. All B are A, but not all C are A. More C is becoming A, leaving less room for B.

Comparing a compact car to an 18-wheeler is a sensational strawman argument, and I think you already know that. A compact car is a consumer vehicle bought for personal use and an 18-wheeler is overwhelmingly used for commercial purposes. These really are for different markets because you don't use them for the same reason at all. I can't go to a dealership and purchase an 18-wheeler, and even if I could, it would require a special license to operate it. I can walk into a store and purchase a home console, a handheld console, a phone or a tablet with no objections provided I have the money. I can buy them all, or I can choose just one or two that are most relevant to my tastes and interests... the very thing hundreds of thousands of consumers do every day. And a factor in those decisions is the gaming capabilities of these devices.

So while smartphones, tablets and especially portable consoles are not completely representative of the entire video game market, to say that they don't have an effect on home console sales is to stick your head in the sand. That's like saying smartphones haven't taken a major bite out of the home phone business because one is tied to a land line but offers higher quality and the other is portable but has a Swiss army knife of features. That's like saying smartphones haven't taken a bite out of the consumer digital camera market because one is made only for snapping photos while the other has it as a side feature (if you think not, then Kodak shareholders would like to have a word with you).

I have more to add, but it's almost quittin' time at work, so I must end this already lengthy reply now.

No it's not a strawman argument. The selling point of handheld consoles is that they are *gasp* HANDHELD. They are self-contained units that offer a portable gaming experience. Consoles are in no way self-contained. They need a TV and power supply. 
Okay compare a compact car to an BMW 5 series. Both cars are they not? This is as much as I'm going to talk about this topic because, frankly, its fucking rediculous. To compare a handheld to a fucking console shows just how far some people are willing to stretch things in order to lessen the severity of a situation. I work in buisness & know that if you really, truly, honestly believe that they are part of the same market, I hope to god you don't go into buisness/economics/retail. It's simply common sense that they are not part of the same market as what the offer are two completely different things.



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Mazty said:
NintendoPie said:
Mazty said:


Tu quoque fallacy. Please address the actual argument and refrain from fallacies. 

You are impossible to talk to. 

- We can compare HandHelds Consoles and Home Consoles. They have common factors, including gaming (the main point of Gaming Consoles.)

- No one would think to compare the things you've brought up, all you're doing is being sarcastic.

I'm done. Those are my final points.

No I'm not impossbile to talk to; I've just been educated in how to debate correctly. Your argument is completely vaccous and based on utterly arbritary reasoning, reasoning which you have yet to even attempt to justify. I'm guessing you haven't finished high school? I say that because your argument is devoid of logic - compare handhelds to consoles because they do generally the same thing, but don't compare other items that do generally the same thing as one another. The hell?

It's disappointing to see your replies lack substance and then see the attitude you convey when this is pointed out. 


I would agree with NinPie on this, actually.  The main purpose of both handheld and home consoles is gaming, and, thus, comparing sales trends between them is not necessarily apples-to-oranges.  The 3DS's  very weak start and partial recovery can be examined to see if the Wii U is capable of doing so as well (software, advertising, pricing, etc.).



Okami

To lavish praise upon this title, the assumption of a common plateau between player and game must be made.  I won't open my unworthy mouth.

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appolose said:
Mazty said:
NintendoPie said:
Mazty said:


Tu quoque fallacy. Please address the actual argument and refrain from fallacies. 

You are impossible to talk to. 

- We can compare HandHelds Consoles and Home Consoles. They have common factors, including gaming (the main point of Gaming Consoles.)

- No one would think to compare the things you've brought up, all you're doing is being sarcastic.

I'm done. Those are my final points.

No I'm not impossbile to talk to; I've just been educated in how to debate correctly. Your argument is completely vaccous and based on utterly arbritary reasoning, reasoning which you have yet to even attempt to justify. I'm guessing you haven't finished high school? I say that because your argument is devoid of logic - compare handhelds to consoles because they do generally the same thing, but don't compare other items that do generally the same thing as one another. The hell?

It's disappointing to see your replies lack substance and then see the attitude you convey when this is pointed out. 

I would agree with NinPie on this, actually.  The main purpose of both handheld and home consoles is gaming, and, thus, comparing sales trends between them is not necessarily apples-to-oranges.  The 3DS's  very weak start and partial recovery can be examined to see if the Wii U is capable of doing so as well (software, advertising, pricing, etc.).

The main purpose of a micra and an aston martin is to get from point A - B. 

Both farmville and Black Ops are games. 

Now who compares the above? The point of a handheld it to provide PORTABLE GAMING, not just gaming. 



Max King of the Wild said:
VGKing said:
Mnementh said:
Mazty said:
 

 

 

(Referring specifically to the PS3 vs Gamecube comparison)
That only makes the Gamecube look even worse. PS3 was $600, Gamcube was what? 200?

Anyway PS3 was pretty much guaranteed 3rd party support no matter how poorly it would have sold. Wii U doesn't have that so a slow start is something it may never recover from. It won't peak in its 5th or 6th year like PS3 has.

I think it will. Price cut and games will assure it that. Nintendo expects to ship 1 million units in Jan-March to increase total sales to 4 million. They will most likely miss that number by a good amount considering Nintendo only sold 120k in NA for 2/3rds of the quarter and will most likely sell similarly in March. And selling 175k in Japan and be lucky to pass 200k by the end of March... With things looking worse than NA in Europe. and to top it all off Nintendo wasn't supply constrained for fourth quarter and probably had a lot of stock left over from demand not meeting expectations. So.. how many units could they possibly ship for the entire year if after 6 months they can't even reach 4 million with no holiday sales to help? They will be lucky to reach 6 million (shipped) by it's first year anniversary which means ~5million sold.

So you don't think with a lower price and better sw Nintendo can improve sales in the next few years? I think they will. However, as I made a thread about it, I don't think sales will increase by how much Nintendo fans are wanting or expecting it to. Next years sales might get close to 8million or something and 4th or 5th year sales might get close to 12mil.

It just doesn't make sense. History has shown us that Nintendo consoles peak early in their life cycle. Gamecube had price + games and that didn't help it against the PS2. Now, I'm not saying Wii U is another Gamecube but if we rate Wii U on a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 equals performance similar to Gamecube and 10 is closer to Wii......I would rate the Wii U a 5. It won't fail like Gamecube, but it won't succeed like Wii either.



Lets compare those really bad handhelp game consoles that only have 1 game on it and is just black dots on the screen to the 3ds!



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VGKing said:

It just doesn't make sense. History has shown us that Nintendo consoles peak early in their life cycle. Gamecube had price + games and that didn't help it against the PS2. Now, I'm not saying Wii U is another Gamecube but if we rate Wii U on a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 equals performance similar to Gamecube and 10 is closer to Wii......I would rate the Wii U a 5. It won't fail like Gamecube, but it won't succeed like Wii either.

I completely agree with your conclusion, that the WiiU will sell somewhere between GC and Wii (well, thats a lot of free space between the two). But to the first (early peak): I think SNES had good sales over a long time.



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Mazty said:
appolose said:
Mazty said:
NintendoPie said:
Mazty said:


Tu quoque fallacy. Please address the actual argument and refrain from fallacies. 

You are impossible to talk to. 

- We can compare HandHelds Consoles and Home Consoles. They have common factors, including gaming (the main point of Gaming Consoles.)

- No one would think to compare the things you've brought up, all you're doing is being sarcastic.

I'm done. Those are my final points.

No I'm not impossbile to talk to; I've just been educated in how to debate correctly. Your argument is completely vaccous and based on utterly arbritary reasoning, reasoning which you have yet to even attempt to justify. I'm guessing you haven't finished high school? I say that because your argument is devoid of logic - compare handhelds to consoles because they do generally the same thing, but don't compare other items that do generally the same thing as one another. The hell?

It's disappointing to see your replies lack substance and then see the attitude you convey when this is pointed out. 

I would agree with NinPie on this, actually.  The main purpose of both handheld and home consoles is gaming, and, thus, comparing sales trends between them is not necessarily apples-to-oranges.  The 3DS's  very weak start and partial recovery can be examined to see if the Wii U is capable of doing so as well (software, advertising, pricing, etc.).

The main purpose of a micra and an aston martin is to get from point A - B. 

Both farmville and Black Ops are games. 

Now who compares the above? The point of a handheld it to provide PORTABLE GAMING, not just gaming. 

The experience provided by handheld and home consoles are similar enough as to warrent comparisons; that is the point. And, by gaming, I'm being a little more specific than saying they both entertain.  The sales of both are driven by very similar means.  For instance, if some mega-selling software came out on the 3DS, it could bolster the handheld's sales in general.  So could it be for the Wii U.  Moreover, that which caused the 3DS's sales uplift (pricing, modeling, software, or whatever else happened) might be done to the Wii U.  That's pretty much what happened with the PS3, anyways.



Okami

To lavish praise upon this title, the assumption of a common plateau between player and game must be made.  I won't open my unworthy mouth.

Christian (+50).  Arminian(+20). AG adherent(+20). YEC(+20). Pre-tribulation Pre-milleniumist (+10).  Republican (+15) Capitalist (+15).  Pro-Nintendo (+5).  Misc. stances (+30).  TOTAL SCORE: 195
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Mnementh said:
VGKing said:
 

It just doesn't make sense. History has shown us that Nintendo consoles peak early in their life cycle. Gamecube had price + games and that didn't help it against the PS2. Now, I'm not saying Wii U is another Gamecube but if we rate Wii U on a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 equals performance similar to Gamecube and 10 is closer to Wii......I would rate the Wii U a 5. It won't fail like Gamecube, but it won't succeed like Wii either.

I completely agree with your conclusion, that the WiiU will sell somewhere between GC and Wii (well, thats a lot of free space between the two). But to the first (early peak): I think SNES had good sales over a long time.

And history was also showing us that Nintendo home consoles sales decreased with every generation... until the Wii came along and broke that trend.

History can be useful for showing correlation, but you have to examine it more deeply before you can make any conclusions.



Okami

To lavish praise upon this title, the assumption of a common plateau between player and game must be made.  I won't open my unworthy mouth.

Christian (+50).  Arminian(+20). AG adherent(+20). YEC(+20). Pre-tribulation Pre-milleniumist (+10).  Republican (+15) Capitalist (+15).  Pro-Nintendo (+5).  Misc. stances (+30).  TOTAL SCORE: 195
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appolose said:
Mazty said:

The main purpose of a micra and an aston martin is to get from point A - B. 

Both farmville and Black Ops are games. 

Now who compares the above? The point of a handheld it to provide PORTABLE GAMING, not just gaming. 

The experience provided by handheld and home consoles are similar enough as to warrent comparisons; that is the point. And, by gaming, I'm being a little more specific than saying they both entertain.  The sales of both are driven by very similar means.  For instance, if some mega-selling software came out on the 3DS, it could bolster the handheld's sales in general.  So could it be for the Wii U.  Moreover, that which caused the 3DS's sales uplift (pricing, modeling, software, or whatever else happened) might be done to the Wii U.  That's pretty much what happened with the PS3, anyways.

In what way?!?! The consoles have local multiplay, better graphics, can play media like DVD, bluray etc and of course, can be put onto a 42"+ TV.

A handheld does none of that.

 If a new fiesta comes out with new features, it will sell, just as if a new BMW 5 series comes out with new features. You are comparing a micra to an Aston Martin, and farmville to CoD. Stop it; it's absurd.



Mazty said:
appolose said:
Mazty said:

The main purpose of a micra and an aston martin is to get from point A - B. 

Both farmville and Black Ops are games. 

Now who compares the above? The point of a handheld it to provide PORTABLE GAMING, not just gaming. 

The experience provided by handheld and home consoles are similar enough as to warrent comparisons; that is the point. And, by gaming, I'm being a little more specific than saying they both entertain.  The sales of both are driven by very similar means.  For instance, if some mega-selling software came out on the 3DS, it could bolster the handheld's sales in general.  So could it be for the Wii U.  Moreover, that which caused the 3DS's sales uplift (pricing, modeling, software, or whatever else happened) might be done to the Wii U.  That's pretty much what happened with the PS3, anyways.

In what way?!?! The consoles have local multiplay, better graphics, can play media like DVD, bluray etc and of course, can be put onto a 42"+ TV.

A handheld does none of that.

 If a new fiesta comes out with new features, it will sell, just as if a new BMW 5 series comes out with new features. You are comparing a micra to an Aston Martin, and farmville to CoD. Stop it; it's absurd.

The primary way in which they compare is the type of electronic gaming they provide: that is far more relevant than anything you listed. And, in the Wii's case, it was the Wiimote and the rather revolutionary games Nintendo made as opposed to what you listed.  I'd argue, indeed, that it is primarily software that drives sales (especially in Nintendo's case), which, is what both handhelds and consoles have, of course. So, to argue that which bolstered a handheld's sales (software, price point, etc) could not possibly do so for a home console is unwarrented, I would say.



Okami

To lavish praise upon this title, the assumption of a common plateau between player and game must be made.  I won't open my unworthy mouth.

Christian (+50).  Arminian(+20). AG adherent(+20). YEC(+20). Pre-tribulation Pre-milleniumist (+10).  Republican (+15) Capitalist (+15).  Pro-Nintendo (+5).  Misc. stances (+30).  TOTAL SCORE: 195
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