1. in the begining, I would say thats true

2. Yes, in the first 2 years

3.  Sony definitely was playing catch up with everything related to online. They had really no experience in it, while 360 had the first Xbox as a template on what to improve. They eventually caught on tho.

4. Yes, they lost them...wouldn't say they gave them up tho. They just refused to throw money at devs(money they didn't have anyway) in order to secure their exclusivity. They refused to play MS's game of who's checkbook is bigger. I think Sony learned a very valuable lesson from this tho. Don't put too much faith in 3rd Parties. Nintendo knew this already. Since then Sony has cultivated a massively powerful collection of 1st Party Studios.

5.Hated the fact they got rid of BC too, I did understand it tho. It was an expendable expense, in a time where they needed to slash price to be more competitive. They found a better way of letting people still get their PS2 fix tho, one that would lead them to more profits as well. I'm not completely condoning this practice tho. Yet many who whined about no more BC didn't really wanna play PS2 games, they just didn't like the idea of it losing features. I think their is an important inverse to this that should also be pointed out. PS3 started with a hefty plethora of functions(hardware wise) with BC, rechargeable controllers, HDMI ports, Wifi, BR Functionality and later cut a few things to gain a pricing advantage. 360 omitted several inclusions just so they could resell much better versions at a later day.So basically PS3 was built to appeal to tech gadget fanatics and then later issued dumbed down versions for those who didn't care for such things and just wanted it to be cheaper. 360 made a gimped product from jump, and added expected features later to get existing owners to rebuy yet another console.

6. Agreed. But the Move is not a failure. It sold 15million, the Kinect is a bit above 20million by comparison and that is with a 50+million dollar budget. Now the Move's game library is actually sprinkled with a few really inventively well made ones....but they got zero marketing and released with zero fanfare and floped in sales by default.

7. There were a few games that too very good advantage of the Sixaxis functions. Heavenly Sword and Folklore come to mind. The rest made it way too gimicky, and it of course was a rushed addition to answer to Wii. The only thing really wrong with the controller was the damn back triggers which were very slippery. The form factor is really a regional game. If you are a 6ft, 200+ pound man then yea, the PS2 controller might feel puny and uncomfortable. Yet to the general public of JP, and people with more average sized hands find no issue with it and often times prefer it. I saw some surveys that said it was really a 50/50 split on which controller style they prefer. The inclusion of a mic jack in the controller was ingenius tho.

8. You do know the PS3 outsells 360 every month tho right? You say it as if the 360 is doing better than it sales wise which is actually the opposite. Just because NPD totes how great the sales of 360 is in th US, they fail to aknowledge that these are WW companies, and the 360 suffers virtually everywhere else(pretty much anywhere where english isn't the dominant language). PS3 tops sales on the reg as can be seen on the VGC homepage.

well I guess I'm speaking for the other 80% of the world where the 360 is not dominant and is actually in last place.

Do it or just admit that they dont make games you appreciate. Sony has done nothing but win back gamers trust from the first two years of the gen to the last of the gen. Tell me...has Microsoft repeated this? No. They won you over in the beginning then left you high and dry after the first half. Granted with a new gen comes new gameplans.

I trust MS.  They won't abandon their core.  They'd be stupid to do that.

lol.  That cereal is SO legit.  Love it.

I used to own a 360 but don't any longer.  When playing Black Ops 2 on core mode for PS3, I've  never seen the latency issues in which you're shooting someone and then the kill cam shows you weren't even aimed towards the person and didn't fire one shot off.  I don't get kicked from games except when I'm playing in hardcore mode and kill too many allies(has only happened twice and that.)  Watching a friend on 360, a lot of the time he's seeing the replay showing he didn't shoot.  While his internet isn't as fast as mine, he's still running 18mb/s(mine is 30mb/s.)  This friend also plays the PS3 version and at times he's also seeing the same, didn't shoot once replay.

I've played Street Fighter 4 and Super Street Fighter 4 on both consoles and haven't noticed any lag from either one.   I rarely ever got a match with noticeable lag from Tekken Tag Tournament 2, Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown, Killzone 3, Uncharted 2 and 3, Armored Core 4, For Answer, and Armored Core 5, Gundam Extreme Vs, DBZ Raging Blast 1/2, Gran Turismo 5, Saints Row the Third co op, Saints Row 2 co op, Army of Two and 40th Day co op, Resident Evil 5/6 co op, Dead Space 3 co op, Dead Nation co op, Twisted Metal, and Fight Night Champion.  Probably others.

Games I've played that I've had a lot of lag.  Soul Calibur 4, Tekken 6 more often than not, and Playstation All Stars Battle Royale(unplayable with patch 1.05 and 1.07.) 

Here's an example of a game that had pretty good online multiplayer and then it went all to hell after patches.  Playstation All Stars patch 1.01 had decent online.  It lagged, but not too bad.  1.03 fixed it and while it kicked everyone out after every 2v2 match, it rarely ever lagged.  Then 1.05 and the lag becomes very noticeable.  1.07 and we're at the point where the game is unplayable due to lag.  I practiced as Kat a little bit, went online.  Hit with a ton of lag.  This isn't just one or two games.  This is every single match.

In fighting games, lag is a lot of the time noticed through either slow down or delayed actions.  In racing games you might see cars juddering around.  Third and first person shooters you might have to put more ammo into an enemy than you normally would or enemies will have delayed hit detection if playing co op.

By some chance you may have had a different experience than I did while playing these same games online.  I've had lag on games when owning a 360.  I got the one Dead or Alive 4 trophy for losing five times in a row and I mostly blame it on lag.  For the most part the game was lag free, but a few battles in a row I got lag then I fought this player who was way better than I was twice in a row which got me the trophy.  Also as I stated, Persona 4 Arena developers even stated the 360 version had worse netcode than the PS3 version and there was a lot of lag prepatch(I don't own either version, but the report speaks for itself.)

I'm extremely OCD when it comes to gameplay issues.  Whether it's lag, framerate drops, screen tearing, etc.  I won't purchase Skyrim for the PS3 because of the issues the game has prepatched.  Dead Island is literally unplayable on the PS3 with its constant frame drops.  Darksiders 2's screen tearing had me quit the game after killing the Shadow of the Colossus boss.  Playstation All Stars Battle Royale lag had me quit playing the game it got so bad.  So I really notice this kind of stuff.  

As someone who has played a lot of games on the 360 that I've also played on the PS3 and usually if the lag was bad on one game it was bad on the other as well, I've always felt that 360 owners who claim XBL has better online just haven't played the same games on PS3.  Or maybe their router, even when wired, doesn't like their PS3 or something.

I could bring the same netcode argument to the Wii as well.  There are a lot of Wii games that run online multiplayer very well.  But then Super Smash Bros Brawl has garbage online.  I'd address this as poor netcode, not the fact that it doesn't have XBL. 

Wow. it's crazy how people will defend MS. If you are a hardcore gamer, I just can't see how you could ever wish to defend Xbox360. They told you it was for you, they even put games on it to show you it was for you. But then they do a 360, because they can see how the blue ocean is working for Nintendo. But they do not only turn their focus to the blue ocean, they completely remove it from ... you. no more core games, only a blue ocean of crap.

One thing is to change direction between consoles, but during one? a complete betrayal, and it show exactly how much MS cares about gaming.

Man this thread is hilarious. Apparently MS has not provided games for gamers like me for like 4 years. What are all these incredible games I have been playing then? I guess I need to cancel my Judgement preorder, get a refund on that awesome Shogun game I bought a couple weeks ago, and stop playing that Forza Horizon gem they released late last year. Apparently these things don't exist.

^The people who say the 360 has no games are wrong.  Even with its limited exclusives, which are good exclusives.  Forza Horizon is one game I want to get when I get another 360, there is a steady stream of multiconsole titles whether it's PS360/PC multiconsole or PC/360 multiconsole.  I don't know all the games that are on the 360, but for PC/360 only, I own Super Meat Boy, Torchlight, Left 4 Dead 1 and 2, Bastion, Breath of Death 7, The Last Remnant, and many others on Steam.  Whether they're 360 exclusive or not, they're not on the PS3.  Although they are on PC, but hey, not everyone plays PC. 

That's not really the point of  this thread though.  I know what the op meant, but instead the thread turned out differently.  I only started posting because of the post about PSN online not as good as XBL which is a myth.  Because the difference is nothing more than the netcode.  But what the op really means is that Microsoft released a console that had a high failure rate, they charge additional for XBL Gold to use services that every other console owner whether it's PS3, Wii, or PC can use for free as long as the console provides the feature.  It's a legitimate topic that turned into fighting over your favorite system rather than answering the real question. 

So 360 owners, whether the 360 console is your favorite this gen or not.  Are you going to be more skeptical on buying the Next Box/720/Durango day one based on 360 issues, high failure rate, paying for use of features others get  for free, or will you buy day one as long as there are exclusives you're interested in?   Even if there's XBL Gold, are you going to wait a year to see if it's got a high failure rate before getting it?  If you do get it, are you goinig to buy the extended warranty?  How skeptical are you of the new launch after this gen with Microsoft.  Not whether you  trust them.  Whether you think they're going to screw up the console or not.

I wanna see someone do a list about what sony did wrong this gen.

1 - Eliminated Backwards Compatibility
2 - Eliminated the Other OS option
3 - The great hack of 2011 (I think it was 2011)
4 - got off to a shitty start.
5 - Mandatory Installs (I'm really reaching on that one, it's really not a big deal)

I'd take a lack of backwards compatibility and a temporary problem in the hack over having to pay for XBL gold and RRoD any day. The thing with sony is that, when they fuck up, it never really affects me. I have a functional PS2, even though I prefer having backwards compatibility, so that sucked but wasn't really a big deal. The OtherOS thing was for their own stability, and the people who used it was a sliver of a minority, so whatever. Get a goddamn computer if you care so much about Linux. The hack was the fault of...well hackers whining about the OtherOS thing (and seriously, somebody call the waahmbulance). It had a bad first couple years, but it ended up being on top. Requires a little faith, but I won't pretend that wasn't a bad marketing/business decision. also, the redesigns and Move are not 'complaints', nor are they something to be objectively criticized for, it's a personal opinion. I HAVE a move and I don't like it, but I don't act like Sony is a criminal for giving me that choice that I happened to not like.

and seriously, Mandatory installs don't take long and can be deleted at will. No whining about that. It's unfortunate, but free online, blu ray players, quality exclusives and multiplats, cross system play, account and DLC sharing, etc.

Point is, by the time it was all said and done, PS3 is a superior console to Xbox 360. Xbox's fans tend to be a bit more dedicated, but in terms of game quality, game quantity, overall value, features, and online, PS3 is just better. I should update my 'exclusives' list so I'm not just talking out of my ass when I make a claim that PS3 games are better and there's more of them.

Regardless, Microsoft has burned me this gen, I do not trust them. if IDO get a Nextbox, it won't be for at least 6 months so I can be sure it won't break on me, and that it has games I want.