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Forums - General - Logical proof for God

Jay520 on 07 February 2013
Fifaguy360 said:
pokoko said:
No, no, no. This makes my head hurt. It's a parade of strawmen where he makes up the arguments to suit his answers.

Short answer, and one often repeated: if he's saying the universe can't come from nothing, then he also has to admit that god cannot come from nothing, therefore his argument is meaningless. Sorry, but this is nothing but sophistry.


Not true.

If to create the world God A needed God B to create him and God B needed God C to create him so and so forth to infinitiy ... then the world logically could never be created. Since the world exists, it must mean God always existed.


Well time cannot exist for an eternity. If time stretched infinitely into the past, then an infinite amount of time would have to pass to reach the present. But of course it's impossible to cross an infinite amount of time to get to now.



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pokoko on 07 February 2013
Fifaguy360 said:
pokoko said:
No, no, no. This makes my head hurt. It's a parade of strawmen where he makes up the arguments to suit his answers.

Short answer, and one often repeated: if he's saying the universe can't come from nothing, then he also has to admit that god cannot come from nothing, therefore his argument is meaningless. Sorry, but this is nothing but sophistry.


Not true.

If to create the world God A needed God B to create him and God B needed God C to create him so and so forth to infinitiy ... then the world logically could never be created. Since the world exists, it must mean God always existed.

Or that the stuff which makes up the universe has always existed.  Same difference, which means his proof isn't proof of anything.

Look, I don't care if someone believes in religion, gods, or giant cats that breathe fire, just don't try to twist logic around until you think it proves god exists.  It doesn't work.  That video was flawed argument built on flawed argument.  He had something in his head that he wanted to believe and he was willing to shape everything until he got the answer he wanted.  That's not logic.

Personally, I think the idea that a consciousness can exist independent of any stimuli is nonsensical, but that's just me.  Believe what you like.



kljesta64 on 07 February 2013
A_C_E said:
Roma said:

9min video

This guy has issues. This guy thinks science states that the universe is perfect when in fact its the Bible that states that people's souls become perfect when they reach heaven. Where in any study of science does it explain the universe as being perfect and why does this guy keep mentioning that science says so? Entropy dictates chaos with no creater/controller, rather reaction. Entropy is a scientific study.

Then this guy starts talking about our souls as if there is an official scientific field that has ever found a soul. The soul according to science doesn't actually exist. How we think and feel and make decisions can all be explained in other scientific means.

There's so much I want to say and I wish I could talk to this fact/word-spinner in real life and just call out his fake ass. I would own this guy in a real discussion.


science states that if only one thing.. particle,atom werent in place nothing would exist.

here is a video about nothing :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aigk0B558nc (with morgan freeman) haha

watch 6:30



Tsubasa Ozora

Keiner kann ihn bremsen, keiner macht ihm was vor. Immer der richtige Schuss, immer zur richtigen Zeit. Superfussball, Fairer Fussball. Er ist unser Torschützenkönig und Held.

SlayerRondo on 07 February 2013

And it still provides no proof for god but rather possible circumstantial evidence.



This is the Game of Thrones

Where you either win

or you DIE

A_C_E on 07 February 2013
kljesta64 said:
A_C_E said:
Roma said:

9min video

This guy has issues. This guy thinks science states that the universe is perfect when in fact its the Bible that states that people's souls become perfect when they reach heaven. Where in any study of science does it explain the universe as being perfect and why does this guy keep mentioning that science says so? Entropy dictates chaos with no creater/controller, rather reaction. Entropy is a scientific study.

Then this guy starts talking about our souls as if there is an official scientific field that has ever found a soul. The soul according to science doesn't actually exist. How we think and feel and make decisions can all be explained in other scientific means.

There's so much I want to say and I wish I could talk to this fact/word-spinner in real life and just call out his fake ass. I would own this guy in a real discussion.


science states that if only one thing.. particle,atom werent in place nothing would exist.

here is a video about nothing :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aigk0B558nc (with morgan freeman) haha

watch 6:30

exactly, thanks for the post.



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SlayerRondo on 07 February 2013
Roma said:
Jay520 said:
Roma said:

because rules are created by someone intelligent

everything has rules except the creator who is not bound by anything.

why can the universe create itself yet a castle in the desert can't?


Castles have been observed by humans to be created by humans. The same cannot be said for objects not made by humans.

- 

You say "the rules of the universe don't apply to God because he is outside of the universe." If that's the case, we can say before the universe was created, the rule that "something cannot come from nothing" also didn't apply. Therefore, according to your logic, it would be possible for the universe to come from nothing.

not when you have evidence in the Quran

I will continue tomorrow as I need some sleep now. it's 3:39

good night everyone love ya, kisses

A single religious text is not proff of god's creation of the universe or his existence. There are many different books claiming different god's and code's to live by but none of them provide any evidence that they are right.

Religion just like bigfoot and fairy's need's to provide evidence that it is real or else there is no reason to believe it.

PS: Please do not say Pascal's wager.



This is the Game of Thrones

Where you either win

or you DIE

SlayerRondo on 07 February 2013
Roma said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
Roma said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Or God could just say that, "If you were to live for 80 years on Earth, you would end up in hell due to your arrogance and selfishness which will affect your judgement. Trust me, I am God."

Who wouldn't trust God to tell the truth?

wouldn't you believe in him if he personally told you that?


Yes I would.

 

But he hasn't. Which means that he is either watching all of us going through pain and pleasure for his own amusement or that he is not omniscient and do not yet know where we will end up.

 

Or that he doesn't exist.

why would he be amused of something he knows already?

a movie amuses me because I don't know what will happen in it

If he shows himself then that defeats the purpose he created you for

The character of god has already shown himself to loads of people according the the bible. Odly enough he only seemed to do it during time's where our historical account's are shody at best.

If you are a diest and do not have a thiestic religion then you are simply assming the existence of god without any evidence. All the arguments for the existence of god have absolutely 0% evidence.

If god truly created us but dd not want us to know he existed then surely people should stop talking about the existence of god as this is contrary to our purpose since he has yet to dane any of us with a visit.



This is the Game of Thrones

Where you either win

or you DIE

Fifaguy360 on 07 February 2013
pokoko said:
Fifaguy360 said:
pokoko said:
No, no, no. This makes my head hurt. It's a parade of strawmen where he makes up the arguments to suit his answers.

Short answer, and one often repeated: if he's saying the universe can't come from nothing, then he also has to admit that god cannot come from nothing, therefore his argument is meaningless. Sorry, but this is nothing but sophistry.


Not true.

If to create the world God A needed God B to create him and God B needed God C to create him so and so forth to infinitiy ... then the world logically could never be created. Since the world exists, it must mean God always existed.

Or that the stuff which makes up the universe has always existed.  Same difference, which means his proof isn't proof of anything.

Look, I don't care if someone believes in religion, gods, or giant cats that breathe fire, just don't try to twist logic around until you think it proves god exists.  It doesn't work.  That video was flawed argument built on flawed argument.  He had something in his head that he wanted to believe and he was willing to shape everything until he got the answer he wanted.  That's not logic.

Personally, I think the idea that a consciousness can exist independent of any stimuli is nonsensical, but that's just me.  Believe what you like.

Stuff which makes up the universe cannot have always existed re: big bang. Scientifically we figured this out.



Fifaguy360 on 07 February 2013
Jay520 said:
Fifaguy360 said:
pokoko said:
No, no, no. This makes my head hurt. It's a parade of strawmen where he makes up the arguments to suit his answers.

Short answer, and one often repeated: if he's saying the universe can't come from nothing, then he also has to admit that god cannot come from nothing, therefore his argument is meaningless. Sorry, but this is nothing but sophistry.


Not true.

If to create the world God A needed God B to create him and God B needed God C to create him so and so forth to infinitiy ... then the world logically could never be created. Since the world exists, it must mean God always existed.


Well time cannot exist for an eternity. If time stretched infinitely into the past, then an infinite amount of time would have to pass to reach the present. But of course it's impossible to cross an infinite amount of time to get to now.

You're right, but faiths like Judaism and Islam believe God exists outside of time and is not bound by time. Time is a creation.



Roma on 08 February 2013
A_C_E said:
kljesta64 said:
A_C_E said:
Roma said:

9min video

This guy has issues. This guy thinks science states that the universe is perfect when in fact its the Bible that states that people's souls become perfect when they reach heaven. Where in any study of science does it explain the universe as being perfect and why does this guy keep mentioning that science says so? Entropy dictates chaos with no creater/controller, rather reaction. Entropy is a scientific study.

Then this guy starts talking about our souls as if there is an official scientific field that has ever found a soul. The soul according to science doesn't actually exist. How we think and feel and make decisions can all be explained in other scientific means.

There's so much I want to say and I wish I could talk to this fact/word-spinner in real life and just call out his fake ass. I would own this guy in a real discussion.


science states that if only one thing.. particle,atom werent in place nothing would exist.

here is a video about nothing :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aigk0B558nc (with morgan freeman) haha

watch 6:30

exactly, thanks for the post.

so you agree that if there was no atoms there would not be anything right?



    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(