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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo's unrealistic pricing for old-school platformers et al.

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KylieDog said:
Spazzy_D said:
KylieDog said:
Snesboy said:
happydolphin said:
RolStoppable said:

Who is getting robbed?

Consumers are getting robbed. They think they are getting value for the price, but they are getting ripped off without even knowing it.

No, they are not getting robbed. If they believe the product is worth 50 USD then they will pay it. If they don't, they will purchase some shit game for 10 dollars.


That isn't how it works.  You've never bought something you knew was robbing you in price but you wanted/needed it regardless?  Things sell past their 'worth' all the time, just look at ebay for millions of examples.


That IS how it works in a free market.  The market dictates the price, if people stop buying them, becuase they don't see the value relative to other games in this example, then the price goes down.


Why are you talking about markets, that wasn't being discussed.


Becuase the value of an object, and the concept of being robbed, are based on the items price, which is based on the market.  A steak won't cost me 50 cents just becuase that's what I feel is fair price.  A company will charge whatever people are willing to pay.



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happydolphin said:

 

Nintendopie said:

What are you trying to imply with "before the Wii"? It's hard to compare something that sold almost 100 Million units to something that sold around or less than 30 Million. 

Games sell platforms. But in the case of Wii, the platform sold the games. What does that say about the games, and about Nintendo's strategy (pricing, offerings, etc.)?


I think, in the case of the Wii, they helped each other out. The Wii had a new thing going for it (Motion Controls) and, as we all know, SW sells HW. So, put two and two together and you get quite large sales. Period.

What I don't get is you trying to imply that these games aren't quality. I think Immortal has told you (and others) that quality is, basically, left up to the buyer of the game, not one sole individual. If that were true then you would be right, but it's far from true.



Happy, you're using wrong terminology. You cant rob people that are willing buying these games. Maybe they are ignorant and dont even know about the others, maybe they dont care, so much reasons.

Personally I think you are right in saying those games are overpriced. I think any 2d plat that costs more than 40 is overpriced, Ninty or not. But alot of people dont think that way, and thats cool for them. Quality is subjective, i personally think the Trine games are better than anything on that list, that i have played.

I wonder where some people are getting these outrageous hours from. 200+ hours in a MARIO game? Either some suck really bad or they are playing it over and over again, and thats cool too. Took me about 5 hours to beat NSMB first time thru. And about 4 for 3dland.

In the end let Ninty and others worry about Ninty. Do what i do just dont buy the games, wait for a price drop or if you feel the need to stick it to them, buy it used.



NintendoPie said:

I think, in the case of the Wii, they helped each other out. The Wii had a new thing going for it (Motion Controls) and, as we all know, SW sells HW. So, put two and two together and you get quite large sales. Period.

What I don't get is you trying to imply that these games aren't quality. I think Immortal has told you (and others) that quality is, basically, left up to the buyer of the game, not one sole individual. If that were true then you would be right, but it's far from true.

This is what immortal actually said , that game sales don't indicate quality, but perceived value:

Immortal said:

Words we all tend to forget all too often.

Regardless, even if you don't want to acknowledge that quality is subjective, whoever was it that said that quality has anything to do with pricing? It has something to do with the value an average consumer sees in the product, but nothing whatsoever to do with "quality" as you or I or any other individual sees it.

Other than that, well, Wii sold the games, which sold more Wiis, fair enough. But then the failure of those game to sell 64s and cubes paints a different picture than what you're saying, that the games themselves are worthy of their sales. It would seem that if that were the case, they would have sold on either the 64/cube or the Wii. But they didn't.



happydolphin said:

This is what immortal actually said , that game sales don't indicate quality, but perceived value:

Immortal said:

Words we all tend to forget all too often.

Regardless, even if you don't want to acknowledge that quality is subjective, whoever was it that said that quality has anything to do with pricing? It has something to do with the value an average consumer sees in the product, but nothing whatsoever to do with "quality" as you or I or any other individual sees it.

Other than that, well, Wii sold the games, which sold more Wiis, fair enough. But then the failure of those game to sell 64s and cubes paints a different picture than what you're saying, that the games themselves are worthy of their sales. It would seem that if that were the case, they would have sold on either the 64/cube or the Wii. But they didn't.

What games are we talking about?

Nintendo's First Party games basically saved their older consoles. It sure wasn't any third parties.



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happydolphin said:

But if a game releases at 5$ that is as good as a game at 50$, what does that tell us about the market prices? I understand that you'd pay 50$ for it, but how many games do you play a year, and is 50$ reasonable in today's "pick up and play" landscape, where so many games exist and are all largely comparable in competition for our entertainment time & money?


But all these games competing for my money aren't largely comparable at all. $50 for a game is perfectly reasonable if that game provides me with an experience that I really, really want.



RolStoppable said:
happydolphin said:

 

@bold. If my argument is bad, then there needs to be a reason other than "look, you had to use non-platformers to make your point", when that doesn't take aways from the heart of what I was trying to highlight in the first place, irrespective of genre. And you know that. ;)

"How much entertainment is this game going to provide to me?" How do you put a price tag to entertainment? Usually, price is based on cost and revenue. If I'm selling you a very fun game that took me 10 days to make, should you buy it at 50$? I wouldn't expect you to... In theory I understand what you mean, and I agree that entertainment value needs more place in the discussion, I don't agree that it's the golden standard for pricing either. I think there's more to a price than entertainment value. When a great book can be bought at 20$, I'm not sure 50$ is a reasonable price when only entertainment is the topic.

I think RO shows that Nintendo's games has unmatcheable brand power. In the movie industry, there are some excellent movies that would never hold a candle to hollywood blockbusters in terms of BO sales. Are they less good? Exposure, popularity =/= value.

The purpose of any entertainment product is to entertain people. The prices for any medium (books, music, movies, video games etc.) became what they are, because that's what the market has been willing to pay over an extended period of time. These entertainment products aren't judged based on their production costs. People don't say: "There's no way I am going to watch this movie in a cinema, because it only costed $25m to make.", or: "I am not going to buy this book for $20, because I've heard the author only needed one month to write it. I only pay $20, if it took at least six months." - So why should video games be judged any different? Why would anyone say that they aren't going to pay $50 for a video game that costed less than $10m (or $5m) to develop?

Your last paragraph is defeating your own position. At the beginning you argued that Nintendo can't do this forever. Now you argue that Nintendo has unmatchable brand power which basically means that they can do it forever.

@bold. You're projecting onto my PoV. In my opinion, their unmatchable brand power leads to exhuberant markups. Over the long run, as people see value in new propositions like Angry Birds and Trine, they will realize that the brand power and traditional value of Nintendo games doesn't reflect the modern market value.

The price for movies is largely standardized. Whenever I go see a movie at the cinema, it always is roughly 10$ a ticket. For a book it's 15 to 30$, depending on the size of the book.

With a video game, in today's market, the range is so vast that I'm not sure that same "that's what the price is" mindset is meaningful. When the option is between 1$ and 50$, it makes the decision-making process a little more difficult than a movie rental or the buying of a book. (I might be wrong about books now with the whole e-book market, but for movies this is true)

Also, the videogame market is getting very crowded, so asking people to pay 30-50$ for games is not reasonable in such a competitive landscape.



What's the point of this thread to be honest (no trolling)?

Furthermore, appalling is a strong word, one might suggest you revise or use another terminology in order to express your views and get your point across.

In addition, MSRP of 59.99$ and 39.99$ are for retail games, not downloadable or free to play games. Thus, your comparison is quite flawed. Moreover, these prices are the same across the board for all video game publishers, not Nintendo only. Hence, I believe you should change your stance and direct your focus as to why do video game publishers sell retail games at 59.99$ or 39.99$.



Vinniegambini said:

What's the point of this thread to be honest (no trolling)?

Furthermore, appalling is a strong word, one might suggest you revise or use another terminology in order to express your views and get your point across.

In addition, MSRP of 59.99$ and 39.99$ are for retail games, not downloadable or free to play games. Thus, your comparison is quite flawed. Moreover, these prices are the same across the board for all video game publishers, not Nintendo only. Hence, I believe you should change your stance and direct your focus as to why do video game publishers sell retail games at 59.99$ or 39.99$.

New Super Mario Bros. 2 is a downloadable game. I think NSMB U is as well.



RolStoppable said:
happydolphin said:

 

@bold. If my argument is bad, then there needs to be a reason other than "look, you had to use non-platformers to make your point", when that doesn't take aways from the heart of what I was trying to highlight in the first place, irrespective of genre. And you know that. ;)

"How much entertainment is this game going to provide to me?" How do you put a price tag to entertainment? Usually, price is based on cost and revenue. If I'm selling you a very fun game that took me 10 days to make, should you buy it at 50$? I wouldn't expect you to... In theory I understand what you mean, and I agree that entertainment value needs more place in the discussion, I don't agree that it's the golden standard for pricing either. I think there's more to a price than entertainment value. When a great book can be bought at 20$, I'm not sure 50$ is a reasonable price when only entertainment is the topic.

I think RO shows that Nintendo's games has unmatcheable brand power. In the movie industry, there are some excellent movies that would never hold a candle to hollywood blockbusters in terms of BO sales. Are they less good? Exposure, popularity =/= value.

The purpose of any entertainment product is to entertain people. The prices for any medium (books, music, movies, video games etc.) became what they are, because that's what the market has been willing to pay over an extended period of time. These entertainment products aren't judged based on their production costs. People don't say: "There's no way I am going to watch this movie in a cinema, because it only costed $25m to make.", or: "I am not going to buy this book for $20, because I've heard the author only needed one month to write it. I only pay $20, if it took at least six months." - So why should video games be judged any different? Why would anyone say that they aren't going to pay $50 for a video game that costed less than $10m (or $5m) to develop?

Your last paragraph is defeating your own position. At the beginning you argued that Nintendo can't do this forever. Now you argue that Nintendo has unmatchable brand power which basically means that they can do it forever.

Because there are video games that were more expensive to make or had more time put into them and they cost the same thing. IMHO it would be messed up to not support those guys in lieu of supporting the ones who didnt have to work as hard. Thats just one tiny reason for me at least, the less time it took to make something usually the less value im going to get out of the end product. In terms of 2d plats, i usually finish those fairly quickly, which is why im not willing to spend the 50-60 dollars on one of them that I am willing to spend on a game from another genre. Again thas just me, if a person wants to play a Mario over and over and over again to...well hell I dont know. Thats perfectly fine.