By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - Wii owners, is it our fault that the Wii U isn't getting better third party support?

oniyide on 27 January 2013
Scoobes said:
Aielyn said:

I do touch-type, actually. It's not nearly as hard as you think. I didn't get taught it, or anything, I just started doing it over time.

Anyway, as I said, the whole point of my post was to emphasise the nonsense of suggesting that sales of three specific games is somehow indicative of how the Wii sold. I demonstrated its nonsense by picking alternate games on the Wii, and then games on the 360, that show that you can reverse the argument or apply it to another console just as easily.

I can't comment on CoD3, as I never did get that game. I got WaW and BO, and I enjoyed WaW (I actually still haven't gotten around to actually playing BO - it's a game I'll play at some point, though), but I could feel the lack of features in that game. I don't blame Treyarch for that - they had their hands full just porting the main engine over, considering that it was IW that made the original engine. Anyway, you said CoD3 was why people weren't playing CoD on Wii... but I doubt that, since WaW sold nearly as well as CoD3 did.

And the FPS genre didn't gain traction because third parties couldn't be bothered trying to make a quality Wii online experience, and online was where FPS was flourishing. Treyarch did put the effort in, at least, and they saw reasonable sales, but like I said, CoD was already lost for the Wii after MW failed to turn up in 2007.

Also noteworthy was that there was no top-notch FPS, nothing to drive interest in the genre in the way that Modern Warfare did on the PS3 and 360. The CoD games were lacking functionality, MoH:H2 wasn't exactly highly-rated (metacritic rating of 73), Red Steel was a buggy mess (although it showed potential - I honestly think that a 2008 Red Steel 2 that expanded on the first game and fixed the problems rather than being a completely different experience would have done incredibly well), and The Conduit was simply lacking on all fronts. In short, nothing showed that the genre could reach its potential because developers didn't really provide a game that had the potential to do so.

More importantly, there was no standout exclusive FPS. As you pointed out, 360 had games like Halo, PS3 had games like Resistance. You could say "well, it was Nintendo's job to provide that game", but third parties routinely argue that you can't compete against Nintendo in their genres. If Nintendo had released an FPS that sold 20 million copies, third parties would go "well, how are we supposed to compete with that?" and put all their games on the 360 and PS3.

As for Monster Hunter, there are a few things worth noting. MHTri on Wii outsold all other MH games in North America, and all bar one in Europe. In Japan, yes, it's been more of a "trend", but I wouldn't exactly call the trend an ordinary pattern. And the PS3 version of Portable 3rd didn't exactly light up the charts in Japan. But I don't think it's worth really arguing over it - it's kind of a side point at best. The point to make is that MH clearly sold very well on the Wii, which demonstrates the absurdity of using games like NMH to argue that the Wii doesn't support those sorts of games.

On FPS' I think if Nintendo released a top selling FPS that you would have seen a much greater push from third-parties. The excuse that Nintendo games outcompete their games was usually used after a games done poorly. Afterall, how many third-parties released party games after Mario and Sonic at the Olympics did well or all the fitness games after Wii Fit showed their was a large market for it.

The closest Nintendo had in terms of FPS was the Metroid Prime trilogy but even that sold relatively poorly (compared to other Nintendo franchises), so nothing really showed the FPS market was present for the decision makers at third party publishers.


THis



Around the Network
oniyide on 27 January 2013
Aielyn said:
oniyide said:
@aielyn LMAO my argument is absurd? but you cherry picked two games that were LATE ports to some WIi games LOL. PLease. Madworld? that game has been selling for five bucks on AMazon, NEW for over two years now, it selling 700,000 copies is nothing to be proud of especially when some people on this very website were swearing it would sell 1mil? Same goes for Conduit it was supposed to sell 1mil plus, not even going to get into the sequel. which sold much worst than any of the HD games you mentioned.

Madworld and Conduit werent put on PS360 cause those games are bland, why play Madworld when you can play DMC, GOW, hell that new Anarchy is getting better reviews, Conduit? There are way better FPS on HDs, if people didnt buy that crap for their WIis what makes you think they would buy it for PS360 which has too much FPSs if anything.

COD still sold less than 360 which you are trying to downplay, what about the rest of the COD games on WIi? They just sold worst over time. What about the bunch of other games that sold better on HDs, Spiderman, Both Star Wars Force Unleashes, A few Legos, Dead Rising, Bully Schlorship edition, Rayman Origins, just about all the sports games, IE Madden, Fifa, Tales of Graces (just the Japanese sales) a few games did well on WIi and thats just about it a few, unless they were dancing or exercise.

BTW COD isnt a fair comparison, but games that were ported 1 to 2 years later are? No doesnt work that way, ill keep using COD as long as people keep using old ports.

I didn't cherrypick anything, I demonstrated the absurdity of YOUR cherrypicking. Even you admit that MadWorld and Conduit were bland games, and that's why they weren't put on the PS3 or 360. So why are they good examples of why the Wii isn't a good market for such games? In other words, you just demonstrated the absurdity of your own argument by explaining exactly why those two games didn't sell massive numbers. And for the record, I couldn't give half a hoot how many copies people on vgchartz said they thought those games would sell.

And I'm not trying to downplay CoD3 sales on 360 at all. The point of giving that example was to show that Wii versions were capable of selling similar numbers. I wasn't trying to claim that the Wii was the optimal platform for FPS games, just that the platform should have been competitive on the FPS front. And again, my whole point is that you cherrypick examples, and I make the point by intentionally picking counterexamples. After all, if someone were to say "the sky is always blue", and I then pointed to the sky during sunset, it wouldn't make sense for that person to go "but you're cherrypicking the time of day!" - I disproved the claim by providing a counterexample. I don't have to show that counterexamples are more common than examples, only that counterexamples exist.

I like how you mention Dead Rising as an example. Yeah, that's DEFINITELY a fair comparison, considering that it was a late port that sucked arse. Meanwhile, Force Unleashed on Wii was comparable to on PS3 and 360, as was Rayman Origins and Spider-Man 3, most of the LEGO games did best on the Wii, the Wii did particularly well on Tiger Woods, Grand Slam Tennis on Wii far outperformed GST2 on PS3 and 360, and Rockstar's Table Tennis did better on Wii than 360. Tales of Graces F for PS3 had added content (thus it's not a fair comparison).

Let me emphasise this again - the problem is that you cherrypick, and then when someone points out the absurdity of your cherrypicking, you then bring up arguments against their counterexamples that apply just as well in reverse. People like you keep bringing up games like Dead Rising, Dead Space, Modern Warfare, etc - they were late ports. And why do you get to use Wii exclusive games (that you, yourself, admit were dull games) as proof that there's no market on the Wii? Why don't we then get to use equivalent examples on the 360 or PS3 to prove that it has nothing to do with the Wii, and everything to do with the game itself?

When you have a reasonable argument to make, I'll listen.

@Aielyn  and people like you keep picking GE, NMHs etc. late ports. and no COD3 on Wii is not comparable to COD3 on 360. There is about a mil different. PS3?? Sure but even that is not the case anymore. Force Unleashed? same deal. 360 did much better. What aobut the sequel? Not even close to the HD numbers, nice how you left that out. GST2 came out long after the original, try again. Tiger Woods mostly sells better on HDs. Table Tennis?? Wow. ToGf was a late port, added content or not it had no business selling better than the original one in a fraction of the time.

 

My point is that multiplat games do better on HDs(especially 360) than they do on Wii unless its some dancing for fitness game. Thats a fact. You are welcome to try and prove me wrong.



oniyide on 27 January 2013

whoops, there is about a 500,000 difference between CoD3 360 and Wii



Aielyn on 27 January 2013
oniyide said:
@Aielyn  and people like you keep picking GE, NMHs etc. late ports. and no COD3 on Wii is not comparable to COD3 on 360. There is about a mil different. PS3?? Sure but even that is not the case anymore. Force Unleashed? same deal. 360 did much better. What aobut the sequel? Not even close to the HD numbers, nice how you left that out. GST2 came out long after the original, try again. Tiger Woods mostly sells better on HDs. Table Tennis?? Wow. ToGf was a late port, added content or not it had no business selling better than the original one in a fraction of the time.

 

My point is that multiplat games do better on HDs(especially 360) than they do on Wii unless its some dancing for fitness game. Thats a fact. You are welcome to try and prove me wrong.

COD3 Wii: 2.17 million
COD3 360: 2.61 million

PS3 version sales were further below Wii than the Wii version was below 360, at 1.38 million. So you're wrong on that count.

It's closer to the truth in the case of Force Unleashed, with the Wii version being about 800,000 behind. But when you put it in terms of proportion, it's a 33% lower number for the Wii version - not a massive difference, when all is said and done. The difference was a little bigger for the sequel in terms of proportion, but smaller in terms of absolute value, at only about 600,000 behind. The sequel was weak compared with the original, so no big surprise there. And yes, I left out Force Unleashed 2, because I'm demonstrating the absurdity of YOUR argument. I'm not trying to prove that all Wii versions of multiplatform games do better than the other versions, I'm just demonstrating that not all of them do far worse, because that was YOUR claim.

I find it hilarious that you consider GST2 to not count because it came out long after the original. Wow, what a surprise - a game comes out AFTER the previous game in the franchise. They weren't the same game, you know?

How do you figure that Tiger Woods does better on the HD consoles? The best-selling Tiger Woods games between 2006 and 2012 go in this order: 09 Wii, 10 Wii, 08 Wii, 12 PS3, 11 PS3, 10 PS3, 07 PS2, 08 PS3, 09 360. More importantly, the top three, the Wii titles, are the only ones to break the 1 million mark. Tiger Woods 12 PS3 didn't even make it to 800,000. Tiger Woods 09 Wii managed 1.4 million, making it almost twice the sales of the best-selling PS3 version, and well over twice the sales of the best-selling 360 version.

And yes, Table Tennis. The Wii version released a year later than the 360 version, and still easily outsold it. Considering that this is Rockstar's game, I wouldn't mock it if I were you.

Meanwhile, I find it hilarious that you claim that releasing later on the PS3 means that it shouldn't outsell the Wii version, even if it had extra content. Meanwhile, CoD:MW is somehow proof of something. And this is what annoys so many people about the arguments that people like you put forward - the inconsistency, the contradictory attitude, that somehow any game where the Wii sold worse is a legitimate example, but if the 360 and PS3 versions sell worse, then you come up with all sorts of excuses for them, and declare them invalid. I only ask consistency - either include all examples, or use the same metrics for rejecting examples.

You want examples of simultaneous release games that did better on Wii than PS3 or 360? OK. It won't be a long list, but only because of how few games actually went true multiplatform between the three. It's also incomplete, because I have to pick which ones are multiplatform, and then check them - it takes time.

Sonic Unleashed - Wii version outsold PS3 and 360 versions combined.
Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing - Wii version sold just under the PS3 and 360 versions combined.
LEGO Star Wars: The Complete Saga - Wii version sold 36% more than the PS3 and 360 versions combined.
LEGO Harry Potter: Years 1-4 - Wii version outsold PS3 and 360 combined.
Skylanders: Spyro's Adventure - Wii version outsold PS3 and 360 versions combined by over 60%.
Skylanders Giants - Wii version outselling 360 version by a factor of 4, PS3 version by even more.
Star Wars The Clone Wars: Republic Heroes - Wii version nearly outsold PS3 and 360 versions combined.
Tony Hawk: RIDE - Wii version nearly outsold PS3 and 360 versions combined.
Disney Universe - Wii version nearly outselling PS3 and 360 versions combined.
Epic Mickey 2 - Wii version outselling PS3 and 360 versions combined by a fair amount.

LEGO Star Wars III: The Clone Wars - Wii version outsold 360 version, easily outsold PS3 version.
Guitar Hero III - Wii version outsold 360 version, sold more than double PS3 version.
Guitar Hero: World Tour - Wii version easily outsold 360 version, sold more than double PS3 version.
Guitar Hero 5 - Wii version easily outsold 360 and PS3 versions (also most of the spinoff GH games, but I won't bother listing them).
de Blob 2 - Wii version outsold PS3 and 360 versions.
Ghostbusters: The Video Games - Wii version outsold PS3 version, easily outsold 360 version.
Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII - Wii version easily outsold PS3 and 360 versions.

Tomb Raider: Anniversary - Wii version sold more than double 360 version. No PS3 version (but it did outsell the PS2 version handily).

I'd list more, but you'd be shocked how few notable multiplatform titles the Wii actually got (especially amongst the ones that released simultaneously). If you rule out CoD, Force Unleashed, and the EA sports titles, there's really not much left beyond the kinds of franchise you see in the above list.

Note that the Wii version of Sonic Unleashed far outsold the other versions, but the Wii still didn't get Sonic Generations. Note that the Wii version of Blazing Angels easily outsold the other versions, but it still didn't get the sequel. Note that Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing sold best by far on Wii, but didn't get the sequel (Wii U did, at least).

Also note that, whenever a Wii version struggled, the developer typically refused to make a sequel on the Wii... but the only case I recall of this happening with the other systems was Rayman Raving Rabbids, another game that belongs on the above list (but I decided not to bother adding, because I could already see your response - "party game doesn't count"... heck, I expect you to reject most of the games on the list because "kiddy" or things like that... let me just say, if you do, you'll just be confirming my opinion of you).



sethnintendo on 27 January 2013

Third party companies are the ones that deserve the most blame. I see more going out of business in the next generation.



Around the Network
sethnintendo on 27 January 2013
Aielyn said:
oniyide said:
@Aielyn  and people like you keep picking GE, NMHs etc. late ports. and no COD3 on Wii is not comparable to COD3 on 360. There is about a mil different. PS3?? Sure but even that is not the case anymore. Force Unleashed? same deal. 360 did much better. What aobut the sequel? Not even close to the HD numbers, nice how you left that out. GST2 came out long after the original, try again. Tiger Woods mostly sells better on HDs. Table Tennis?? Wow. ToGf was a late port, added content or not it had no business selling better than the original one in a fraction of the time.

 

My point is that multiplat games do better on HDs(especially 360) than they do on Wii unless its some dancing for fitness game. Thats a fact. You are welcome to try and prove me wrong.

 

long post

Don't bother arguing with oniyide because he will just keep moving the goalpost to eventually something that isn't possible.  You counter him with one argument and then he will come up with an impossible scenario for the next argument.



Aielyn on 27 January 2013
sethnintendo said:
Don't bother arguing with oniyide because he will just keep moving the goalpost to eventually something that isn't possible.  You counter him with one argument and then he will come up with an impossible scenario for the next argument.

At that point, I will accuse him of moving the goalposts, and turn his impossible scenario around to trap him in his own argument.



Naum on 27 January 2013

It is and will always be 3:rd parties fault



If it isn't turnbased it isn't worth playing   (mostly)

And shepherds we shall be,

For Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee And teeming with souls shall it ever be. In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti. -----The Boondock Saints

curl-6 on 27 January 2013

Not my fault.

I bought plenty of third party games for Wii; Monster Hunter Tri, Goldeneye 007, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, No More Heroes 1 & 2, Red Steel 2, Rayman Origins...

Maybe if third parties didn't treat Nintendo console owners like crap, they'd get more sales.



Podings on 27 January 2013

I own about 60 retail Wii games, about half of them third party.

Now, where I am to blame is that I bought most of these at reduced prices, long after release. :-/

Only Nintendo manages to keep their games at or close to release price, and eventually I'll cave in and get them, but many other games dropped too fast in price for me to trust the release tag being reasonable.