Do you even know why MS got into the video game industry?

http://beepdf.com/doc/62901/why_the_xbox_brand_failed_and_continues_to_fail_in_japan.html

As long as Sony is winning in Asia, and Europe for that matter, MS is failing. MS and Sony have two different goals, and MS's is far more complex. It reminds me of how the Confederacy simply needed The Union to back off in order to win the Civil War, but The Union needed the Confederacy to actually surender in order to win. Not only is Sony not surendering--if you will--they are selling more per year than MS, which results in Sony continuing to gain ground over MS (although slowly).

So before you start criticizing me, and calling ME the fanboy for that matter, read up on the subject.

Do you even know why MS got into the video game industry?

http://beepdf.com/doc/62901/why_the_xbox_brand_failed_and_continues_to_fail_in_japan.html

As long as Sony is winning in Asia, and Europe for that matter, MS is failing. MS and Sony have two different goals, and MS's is far more complex. It reminds me of how the Confederacy simply needed The Union to back off in order to win the Civil War, but The Union needed the Confederacy to actually surender in order to win. Not only is Sony not surendering--if you will--they are selling more per year than MS, which results in Sony continuing to gain ground over MS (although slowly).

Okay, thanks for the extra info.  That seems to be a lot better than what I previously thought.  I still don't think you can accrue points (Microsoft) as quick as you can coins (Nintendo).  However, at least they are offering something more than the birthday present. 

People need to start separating the 2 services.

Microsoft makes you pay for online play and the entire online experience is apart of the 60 dollars.

PS+ has nothing to do with paying to play online. It is a subscription service where you receive early access to game demos and free games. Granted as long as you keep paying for the service.

Outside of being a subscription service neither of these are alike.

TC.... sooooooooooooo you happen across an error filled, historically innacurate 'marketing perspective', more than likely written by an undergrad, and simply accept this as gospel.
And you're the one telling me to 'read up on the subject'
wow.
I think we're done here.

(marketing perspective..... lol....)

Doesnt change my two points that MS can't have a monopoly on the planet, just strive to be a leader, and that failing implies a lack of success, and Live is anything but that. 

Going by corporate measures, Live generates a ton more money then PSN. So PSN is failing really.

The word I am teaching you today is citation, and that article is piled with it. The last 46 rows of print of the page is the author's list of sources. Did you even read it? And the errors you mention simply means that it was transferred to a different format. Try it yourself.  Cut from MS Office and paste on Notepad. It doesn't change what's written, it simply errors punctuation, (like the ['] appearing as a [9]). And why does it matter if it was written by an undergrad? How do you think someone would become a grad? Your logic is that it's poor quality because it was written by someone who went to college? I would say that writing that article to meet an english professor's criteria makes it all the more valuable.

SOURCES: Analysts to MS: Cut Japan Xbox price or fail (2002, April 8). Retrieved October 2, 2007 from CNN website: http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/04/08/cut.xbox.price.id g/index.html Boyes, E. (2007, October 4).<br><br> Spot On: Japanese devs' spin on 360 . Retrieved October 9, 2007 from the Gamespot website: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6180208.html Cole, V. (2006, September 23).<br><br> The booth babe lineup, a TGS tradition. Retrieved October 2, 2007 from Joystiq website: http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/23/the-booth-babe-lineup-a-tgs- tradition/ Dvorak, P. (2003, September 26).<br><br> Microsoft Hires Chief for Xbox Game Unit in Japan. Wall Street Journal (Eastern Edition), p. B.4.<br><br> Retrieved October 1, 2007, from Wall Street Journal database. Dvorak, P. and Guth, R.<br><br> (2005, February 25). Microsoft Taps Top Designer To Win Over Japan's Gamers. Wall Street Journal (Eastern Edition), p.<br><br> B.3. Retrieved October 1, 2007, from Wall Street Journal database. Enderle, R.<br><br> (2003, September 8). Japan Strikes Against Microsoft with Open Source. Retrieved October 1, 2007, from Tech news World website: http://www.technewsworld.com/story/31522.html Fahey, R.<br><br> (2003, August 7). Microsoft will push western games and Xbox Live in Japan 3 Moore . Retrieved October 2, 2007 from Games Industry website: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=1898 Game Sales Charts (2004, January 20).<br><br> Retrieved October 2, 2007 from PVCConsole website: http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=8498 20 Gifford, K. (2003). Why the Xbox Sucks It Up in Japan .<br><br> Retrieved October 2, 2007 from Find Articles website: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_zd1up/is_200311/ai_ziff1120 83 Grant, C. (2007, June 5). Retrieved October 9, 2007 from the Joystiq website: http://www.joystiq.com/2007/06/05/360s-eternal-sonata- briefly-tops-amazon-japan-charts/ Greene, J., & Prasso, S.<br><br> (2002, February 11). NEXT, BILL GATES AIR FRESHENERS?. Business Week , Retrieved September 28, 2007, from Academic Search Premier database.<br><br> Guth, R. & Tran, K. (2002, March 26).<br><br> Fighting Chance: In Battle for the Future, Microsoft Must Woo Japan's Game Makers --- Seeking Titles for New Xbox, Software Giant Chases Odd Breed of Designers --- Late Drinks at `Coco Bongo'. Wall Street Journal (Eastern Edition), p. A.1.<br><br> Retrieved October 1, 2007, from Wall Street Journal database. Guth, R. (2002, September 23).<br><br> Microsoft Weighs Options as Sales of Xbox Sag in Japan --- Market Heavily to Win More Fans, Or Buy a Video Game Company? Wooing the Software Developers. Wall Street Journal (Eastern Edition), p.<br><br> B.1. Retrieved October 1, 2007, from Wall Street Journal database. Japan, Yes Japan, Acknowledges Xbox 360 9s Sleek Design (2006).<br><br> Retrieved October 3, 2007 from Kotaku website: http://kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360/japan-yes-japan- acknowledges-xbox-360s-sleek-design-207038.php Johnson, S. (2005). Everything Bad Is Good For You: How Today 9s Popular Culture Is Actually Making Us Smarter.<br><br> New York: Riverhead Books Kane, Y. (2007, September 13). Microsoft Expands Xbox 360 Line in Japan.<br><br> Wall Street Journal (Eastern Edition), p. B.4. Retrieved October 1, 2007, from Wall Street Journal database.<br><br> Kohler, C. (2004, February 06). Getting in Bed With the Customer.<br><br> Retrieved October 2, 2007 from CNN website: http://www.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/news/2004/02/621 76 Mccoy, F. (1994). Black business courts the Japan market.<br><br> Retrieved October 2, 2007 from Black Enterprise website: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1365/is_n11_v24/ai_15429 440 Microsoft becomes third-largest company in the United States. Retrieved June 1 st , 2007 from Windows IT Pro website: http://www.windowsitpro.com/Articles/ArticleID/17064/17064.htm l?Ad=1 21 22 Microsoft Corp.: Xbox Gets Lukewarm Welcome In Japan on Its Debut Weekend. (2005, December 14).<br><br> Wall Street Journal (Eastern Edition), p. B.3. Retrieved October 1, 2007, from Wall Street Journal database.<br><br> Microsoft targets Japan gamers with new Xbox marketing (2006, April 6). Retrieved October 2, 2007 from Mobile Burn website: http://forums.mobileburn.com/archive/index.php/t-14752.html Muted hello for Xbox 360 in Japan . Retrieved June 1 st , 2007 from BBC News website: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4517362.stm PS3 Now Ahead of 360 in Japan (2006, December 11).<br><br> Retrieved October 9, 2007 from the QJ Network website: http://www.qj.net/PS3-now- ahead-of-360-in-Japan/pg/49/aid/75913 Reidy, G. (2006, December 12). The Little Red Yen.<br><br> Retrieved October 9, 2007 from the Escapist Magazine website: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_75/4 32-The-Little-Red-Yen Rowley, I., & Hall, K. (2006, April 6). Why Xbox 360's Not Playing Well in Japan.<br><br> Business Week Online , Retrieved September 28, 2007, from Academic Search Premier database. Takahashi, D. (2002).<br><br> Opening the Xbox: Inside Microsoft's Plan to Unleash an Entertainment Revolution. California: Prima. Takahashi, D.<br><br> (2006). The Xbox 360 Uncloaked: The Real Story Behind Microsoft's Next-Generation Video Game Console. California: Lulu Press.<br><br> The NPD Group (2005). Annual U.S. Video Game Sales.<br><br> Retrieved March 24, 2006 from NPD website: http://www.npd.com/dynamic/releases/press_060117.html Thorsen, T. (2004, May 26). Xbox officially outsells PS2 in US.<br><br> Retrieved October 2, 2007 from Gamespot website: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/05/26/news_6099369.html Two big retailers suspend sales of Microsoft Xbox. Retrieved October 2, 2007 from Japan Today website: http://www.japantoday.com/jp/news/205260 Xbox VS Xbox 360 in Japan. How was it marketed differently?<br><br> (2007, September 27). Retrieved October 9, 2007 from the NeoGaf website: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=194285

That article and its citations don't paint the same picture you are trying to though. There's a big gap between wanting to slow down Sony's intrusion into the home entertainment market and wanting to monopolize gaming through Xbox Live. They aren't even really the same thing. Hell, the monopolization of gaming through Live doesn't even make any logical sense.

I am sure it was a goal of MS to succeed in every market and sell well. Just like that is the goal of Sony. In that regard they have both failed. But that's not what the thread is about, it's about the supposed failure of Xbox Live. Whether or not it has failed depends on how you want to look at it. From MS's view it has been nothing but a stellar success, something Nintendo and Sony would just LOVE to have in their corner. From a consumer standpoint it depends on whether or not you believe the fee to be worth it. And then it just becomes a matter of opinion that is pointless to debate.

Funny thing is if we pretend your marketing perspective is factual and relevant (it's neither) then it would appear MS succeeded. It said they wanted to prevent Sony from dominating home entertainment and having that success seep over into personal computers and the Xbox has done exactly that.

But MS didn't get into the video game industry for direct profit. Video game industry profit is nothing compared to MS Windows software, which is what they've been losing ground on the passed 20 years. Japan is even replacing them. That's why MS got into the video game industry, to gain back ground worldwide in the average home. But not only has MS failed to regain Japan, they even lost more ground in Europe. The money they make from Xbox Live in America is little compared to the losses of Windows software they are suffering in Japan, which was why they got into the video game business in the first place.

You're viewing MS success directly. I'm referring to indirectly. They're winning the battle, but losing the war (as I said earlier, their goal is far more difficult). That doesn't neccessarily mean that Sony is winning, as they could both be failing due to having different goals. As for PSN, I can't say whether they're winning or losing or in a  stalemate, because I don't know what their 10 year plan it. I also don't know if their goal is to become large and profitable, or simply draw people away from Xbox Live. Besides, that's somewhat beside the point. This page isn't claiming that PSN is succeeding, it's simply pointing out that Xbox Live is failing. If console sales are down in Japan and Europe, then Xbox Live subscriptions are as well, meaning their overall goal upon entering the video game industry is still failing. Also, multiplatform owners are deciding to play free on PSN over continuing to pay for Xbox Live.

Above all else, I think you and I are simply basing our points on different definitions of the word "Fail".

1) to fall short of success or achievement in something expected, attempted, desired, or approved

2) to dwindle, pass, or die away

MS is certainly nowhere close to 2), but they are currently suffering 1).

No it hasn't. MS is now the minority in Japan, both video game consoles and system software. What has greatly happened is the east and west have split, Sony winning the east and MS winning the west. That's not what MS wanted (or Sony for that matter). MS is certainly preventing it from worsening, but they're not regaining ground in the east like they wanted. That's why they're failing. Even more, MS's greatest failure this generation was what no one expected. MS wasn't simply targeting Sony, it was more Japan (because Japan is replacing MS Windows software). MS doesn't care if they buy Sony computers, as long as it runs on MS software. Sony was just the link to Japan. As MS greatly succeeded in bringing down PS sales, what they never expected happened. Nintendo took the lead. Although that is not as bad for MS as Sony holding the lead (because of various Sony products), it is still a Japanese company, which is preventing MS from regaining ground in Japan, both hardware and software.

Monopolizing--if you will--gaming through Xbox Live makes perfect sense. It was originally working. Remember how many games and DLC they used to get exclusively because of XBox Live?

Also, you're taking the word monopoly too literally. If we always did, the word would never apply. Technically, MS never had a monopoly, but they were to some extent close to it. People always referred to them as having a monopoly, even though it was metaphorical. I was speaking metaphorically when I said "more or less monopolize". MS's goal was to bring it back to what it was, which was the closest to monopoly a world company had the 20th century. MS wants people to, by default, choose Xbox Live over PSN (hence, monolopy metaphore). It used to be that way, but not so much any more. That's how Xbox Live is failing.

Failing: to fall short of success or achievement in something expected, attempted, desired, or approved