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Forums - Nintendo - Pachter Says He Isn’t A Fan Of (Cough! Bipolar) Wii U, And Thinks Third-Party Support Will Be Dire

superchunk said:
Ouroboros24 said:

Let me try this.  Let me try to defend Pachter.

Amidst all the success the Wii had garnered, despite all the acclaim, in terms of the Gametrailer crowd and all the 'Core' gamers, it's not lived up to their standards.  Standards from a online point of view, of third party point of view, of the persons who buys 15+ games during a calendar year. 

Wow, this is hard.

What I think Pachter is looking for is the 'oomp', the selling point, the clear cut driving seller for the console.  Given that the Gamepad is far more advanced than a second screen on the DS; it's been done.  I believe that thats the stitch that looms his reasoning.  From an analyst point of view, I think he expects more from a new generation console.  With all the rumors for the Sony and Microsoft next gen consoles, he expects Nintendo to be on par with the possible tech that they'll have--whatever it may be.  He's just not expecting that the 2 screen combo is revolunary as the possible virtual reality Microsoft might have( If you believe in that leaked transcript for the next xbox).

As for Third party support, he has a point.  Nintendo does best because they understand their product.  He's looking back at all the third party developers for the Wii and let's be honest, it was all mostly waggle.   

There's no reason to say that the Gamepad can't be implemented to be a genuine gaming experience, but history shows 3rd parties don't know what to do with it.  Just look at the Wii balance board.

Pachter, despite his tough treatment of Nintendo's Wii U, I think is just simply tough love for Nintendo.  Why, because he's an analyst and he has to be.  Nintendo is the hardest working company at driving the Video game industry.  For him to say that he isn't a Fan of Wii U, is him saying that it won't drive the industry towards higher success.  Of course he's a little more easy on Sony and Microsoft, but that's because they're the younger brothers of the games industry.  They look at Nintendo for guidance(a little too much, but I'm trying to be poetic).  

I'm not a complete fan of Pachter, but I respect his position in the games industry.  Whatever we may think of him, he is a member of that industry and a distinguished member at that.  He comes out every so often and says something about current trends and his opinions of it.  At the moment, he's not a fan, but since he is a fan, things can change. 

What I really want to know is what his opinion on Nintendo TVii.  Quick, someone ask him that question and CC Rohan.

Couple problems with your defense of Pachter.

He's a market analyst and he should not take the 'core' gamer viewpoint but that of the entire market. The entire market overwhelmingly liked the Wii over the others, yet he and 3rd parties picked others solely due to power differences.

The others continue the status quo, Nintendo is the only one that tries to push the audience to new extremes. They try to take gaming past other forms of entertainment and largely succeeded with DS and Wii. The Gamepad is the continuation of that. It takes what is becoming the norm (i.e. slate tablet computing in mobile environments) and puts that in a purely entertainment fashion. It is a big deal and as long as marketed right, should be another boom and another pull for the mass market.

Pachter should be seeing that potential, yet like the Wii before it, he is only looking at it from a core gamer point of view and a irrational need for cutting edge power. Wii and DS should of already proved that this market, this gaming console industry does not need or really want that in a large mass market scenario. All it wants is fun and exciting entertainment. Wii brought that. DS brought that. Wii U has the potential to bring that.

Pachter is not a good analyst. He was wrong day 1 on Wii and DS. He was continuously wrong through Wii's lifetime. But its his push for cutting edge and the narrowmindedness of dev houses that felt they needed that in order to survive which ultimately caused many of them to go out of business as costs ran too high.

Games like COD sell better than BF3 even though BF3 has next-gen graphics, AI, environments, etc on high-end PCs. Games like NSBMWii in 480p sell ten times over nearly any HD game that cost ten times to create. Why? Because its more about the game and the experience than the pretty tech. Same reason Wii was the dominate seller and was sold out for its first two years even though it was by far the lowest powered home console this gen.

Patcher is wrong again. He is blatantly ignoring the mass market for the core... the 10-15% of potential customers. Wii U may or may not hit Wii levels of 20m+ a year in sales, but it will sale well. It will be well received. It will be higher than the average 10m/yr the PS360 did and higher than neXtBox/PS4 if they go the same route of just increasing the power of the console (and price, size, power usage, etc).

Well, it's not a perfet defense, but I already knew that going into this. 



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DélioPT said:
If 3rd parties are going to treat Wii U like Wii, what`s Lego City, Batman, ME 3, Bayonneta 2, Darksiders 2, etc. doing there?

Oh just ignore them - that's what pachters does ;)



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

On the topic of Nintendo innovating controls and developers not knowing what to do with it (wii remote -> waggle, balance board -> wtf is this, etc.), thank god Nintendo decided to do tablet controls this time. Developers have had YEARS to understand and get experimental with tablet controls.

Surely we won't run into the issue of "third parties don't know what to do with this controller."



wfz said:
On the topic of Nintendo innovating controls and developers not knowing what to do with it (wii remote -> waggle, balance board -> wtf is this, etc.), thank god Nintendo decided to do tablet controls this time. Developers have had YEARS to understand and get experimental with tablet controls.

Surely we won't run into the issue of "third parties don't know what to do with this controller."

haha so true!!



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

Pachter can suck on my hairy balls. The man talks so much bollocks. I wish I could get paid for talking crap.



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DanneSandin said:
DélioPT said:
If 3rd parties are going to treat Wii U like Wii, what`s Lego City, Batman, ME 3, Bayonneta 2, Darksiders 2, etc. doing there?

Oh just ignore them - that's what pachters does ;)


:D

I actually think he did!



1. “Nintendo will pioneer, they’ll do a far better job than anybody of exploiting the console and the control scheme, and I think others will learn from them,” he added. “I’m afraid we’re going to have a repeat of the Wii cycle from the publishers’ perspective and the developers’ perspective, where very few people will support it. Then if it’s successful they’ll come in, and they’ll fail. When they fail, they’ll go away again. The reason I think they’ll fail is, I can’t think of a third-party publisher that did well on the DS. I mean, Scribblenauts, so there are a handful games and you can count them. Nobody did very well on the DS, and I don’t think anybody’s going to do very well on the Wii U.”

2. “They sold 90 million Wiis; it’s certainly less than 90 million hardcore fans. I would guess it’s between seven and ten million, and it could be 20 million but they don’t all have $350. When the hardcore fans are satisfied, I think sales are going to drop precipitously because I don’t think the thing is priced competitively with what most people think is a comparable console, Xbox 360 or PS3.

1. It has been apparent for some time that Pachter is just a paid shill for at least one of the major third party developers.  This just confirms it further.

2. So when the next Microsoft and Sony consoles come out for more than $350, is Pachter going to complain about that?  I will be taking your bets now.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Mobile - Yugioh Duel Links (2017)
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PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)
PC - Command & Conquer Remastered Collection (1995/1996/2020)

Gamerace said:

Unique experiences are what I love about my Wii.   I'm not convinced WiiU will be unique though.  With Vita, Smart glass and dual analog Android systems coming out, if WiiU proves sufficiently popular it's games could be (potentially) ported across all systems, even dual screen Android would be within the realm of possibility (iOS too), minus the Nintendo exclusives of course.   Plus we don't know what MS/Sony are doing yet.  Their next systems might be more novel than WiiU.

I'd love to be excited enough to get a WiiU myself but so far, nothing on it has inspired me.

I'll believe that when I see it.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Mobile - Yugioh Duel Links (2017)
Mobile - Super Mario Run (2017)
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)
PC - Command & Conquer Remastered Collection (1995/1996/2020)

never underestimate the selling power of Mario games, and then the 3rd party support would come in



Stefan.De.Machtige said:
Gamerace said:
Mummelmann said:
Gamerace said:
I can't believe that I'm essencially in agreement with the Pachter here. Which is the most convincing argument that I'm wrong that I've seen yet.

But yeah...
1- not powerful enough to pull the core from their existing consoles
2- not novel enough to pull casuals from their ipads


Falling between two chairs, so to speak. I've been saying the same thing for quite some time.

That said, I'm surprisingly excited for the Wii U and will probably end up buying one myself. It will probably offer a lot more unique gaming experiences than the PS4 and 720 anyway.

Unique experiences are what I love about my Wii.   I'm not convinced WiiU will be unique though.  With Vita, Smart glass and dual analog Android systems coming out, if WiiU proves sufficiently popular it's games could be (potentially) ported across all systems, even dual screen Android would be within the realm of possibility (iOS too), minus the Nintendo exclusives of course.   Plus we don't know what MS/Sony are doing yet.  Their next systems might be more novel than WiiU.

I'd love to be excited enough to get a WiiU myself but so far, nothing on it has inspired me.

1- not powerful enough to pull the core from their existing consoles
2- not novel enough to pull casuals from their ipads

1. was tried with the GC -> a rather big fail -> small profit and a big collapse in market size. 

2. was tried with the Wii -> a mixed bag -> great sales, but It proved to be too unique for most developers.

 

Both didn't work out great.  So, Nintendo is now trying 1.5 - a mixture of both. The fact that you can't pin the WiiU down on both points, might be its biggest strengh. Nintendo is clearly aiming for some middle ground here.


I get that.  But I don't believe there's a significant market for it.   Wii was perfect, but even Nintendo themselves said they needed to keep surprising the casual market with new gameplay to keep them involved.  They did that successfully with Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii, stumbled with Wii Music, recovered slightly with Wii Sports Resort (which wasn't really new, more of a sequel to what came before) and then... no innovation.  NSMBW sold great and was great because it allowed four to play but even that wasn't really innovative.  After that.... All standard Nintendo fair and weak attempts - Kirby, DCKR, MoM, Kirby, Z:SS, Kirby, Wii Party (which sold great in Japan and well in Europe but lousy in party-game super saturated NA) Wii Motion Plus (lame).   Really the only innovation in the last few years was Just Dance which sold amazing.

If Nintendo had stayed true to the vision, beyond Wii Music instead of rehashing their old library, Wii would have continued to sell well.  3rd parties would have continued to support and while it would have progressively been a very different system - family/party/casual oriented - it would have stayed a powerful seller.

By 'playing it safe' and trying to please both camps simultaneously while offer nothing really new to either (touch screen is common and dual screen has been done for many years-by Nintendo), Nintendo risks alienating both groups and being left with just the Nintendo core.

At least, that's how I see it.   They've lost me (so far) and I was a huge Wii fan.