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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Pachter Says He Isn’t A Fan Of (Cough! Bipolar) Wii U, And Thinks Third-Party Support Will Be Dire

Gamerace said:
I can't believe that I'm essencially in agreement with the Pachter here. Which is the most convincing argument that I'm wrong that I've seen yet.

But yeah...
1- not powerful enough to pull the core from their existing consoles
2- not novel enough to pull casuals from their ipads


Falling between two chairs, so to speak. I've been saying the same thing for quite some time.

That said, I'm surprisingly excited for the Wii U and will probably end up buying one myself. It will probably offer a lot more unique gaming experiences than the PS4 and 720 anyway.



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I love it when this guy is wrong... a biased opinion isn't a real opinion. People need to ignore him so he will go away!



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Well I don't know where this gentleman has been, but 3rd parties are already taking advantage of the touchscreen.

The most honorable mentions go to NBA2K13, Batman, ZombiU and Scribblenauts.



Mummelmann said:
Gamerace said:
I can't believe that I'm essencially in agreement with the Pachter here. Which is the most convincing argument that I'm wrong that I've seen yet.

But yeah...
1- not powerful enough to pull the core from their existing consoles
2- not novel enough to pull casuals from their ipads


Falling between two chairs, so to speak. I've been saying the same thing for quite some time.

That said, I'm surprisingly excited for the Wii U and will probably end up buying one myself. It will probably offer a lot more unique gaming experiences than the PS4 and 720 anyway.

Unique experiences are what I love about my Wii.   I'm not convinced WiiU will be unique though.  With Vita, Smart glass and dual analog Android systems coming out, if WiiU proves sufficiently popular it's games could be (potentially) ported across all systems, even dual screen Android would be within the realm of possibility (iOS too), minus the Nintendo exclusives of course.   Plus we don't know what MS/Sony are doing yet.  Their next systems might be more novel than WiiU.

I'd love to be excited enough to get a WiiU myself but so far, nothing on it has inspired me.



 

Gamerace said:
Mummelmann said:
Gamerace said:
I can't believe that I'm essencially in agreement with the Pachter here. Which is the most convincing argument that I'm wrong that I've seen yet.

But yeah...
1- not powerful enough to pull the core from their existing consoles
2- not novel enough to pull casuals from their ipads


Falling between two chairs, so to speak. I've been saying the same thing for quite some time.

That said, I'm surprisingly excited for the Wii U and will probably end up buying one myself. It will probably offer a lot more unique gaming experiences than the PS4 and 720 anyway.

Unique experiences are what I love about my Wii.   I'm not convinced WiiU will be unique though.  With Vita, Smart glass and dual analog Android systems coming out, if WiiU proves sufficiently popular it's games could be (potentially) ported across all systems, even dual screen Android would be within the realm of possibility (iOS too), minus the Nintendo exclusives of course.   Plus we don't know what MS/Sony are doing yet.  Their next systems might be more novel than WiiU.

I'd love to be excited enough to get a WiiU myself but so far, nothing on it has inspired me.

1- not powerful enough to pull the core from their existing consoles
2- not novel enough to pull casuals from their ipads

1. was tried with the GC -> a rather big fail -> small profit and a big collapse in market size. 

2. was tried with the Wii -> a mixed bag -> great sales, but It proved to be too unique for most developers.

 

Both didn't work out great.  So, Nintendo is now trying 1.5 - a mixture of both. The fact that you can't pin the WiiU down on both points, might be its biggest strengh. Nintendo is clearly aiming for some middle ground here.



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Gamerace said:

Unique experiences are what I love about my Wii.   I'm not convinced WiiU will be unique though.  With Vita, Smart glass and dual analog Android systems coming out, if WiiU proves sufficiently popular it's games could be (potentially) ported across all systems, even dual screen Android would be within the realm of possibility (iOS too), minus the Nintendo exclusives of course.   Plus we don't know what MS/Sony are doing yet.  Their next systems might be more novel than WiiU.

I'd love to be excited enough to get a WiiU myself but so far, nothing on it has inspired me.

Thing is: Nintendo is doing it now, while others will adapt and catch up much later.

Just take a look at move and kinect. Too little too late. There is about 1 or 2 games worth playing for those devices, that actually work ok without waggle. 



Gamerace said:
Mummelmann said:
Gamerace said:
I can't believe that I'm essencially in agreement with the Pachter here. Which is the most convincing argument that I'm wrong that I've seen yet.

But yeah...
1- not powerful enough to pull the core from their existing consoles
2- not novel enough to pull casuals from their ipads


Falling between two chairs, so to speak. I've been saying the same thing for quite some time.

That said, I'm surprisingly excited for the Wii U and will probably end up buying one myself. It will probably offer a lot more unique gaming experiences than the PS4 and 720 anyway.

Unique experiences are what I love about my Wii.   I'm not convinced WiiU will be unique though.  With Vita, Smart glass and dual analog Android systems coming out, if WiiU proves sufficiently popular it's games could be (potentially) ported across all systems, even dual screen Android would be within the realm of possibility (iOS too), minus the Nintendo exclusives of course.   Plus we don't know what MS/Sony are doing yet.  Their next systems might be more novel than WiiU.

I'd love to be excited enough to get a WiiU myself but so far, nothing on it has inspired me.

Cross connection with handhelds could be what the market needs right now, especially Japan, which has seen the steepest decline in home console sales. The whole region could become irrelevant in the 8th generation unless something happens to turn things around.

If, and that's a big if, the Wii U gets the same 3rd party titles as the PS4 and 720, that will only make the console appear less different, the one good thing that came from the Wii's lack of proper 3rd party initiative was the oringinality and guts some of the smaller developers and 2nd party houses as well as some trailblazing 1st party quality (as per usual with Nintendo).

I think ZombiU shows the near perfect implementation of the Gamepad and I hope for more of the same! I'm afraid most developers won't put that much effort into it though, which would be a real shame.



You can say good things about things you don't like. I think Adele is ugly as hell and I don't care for her music at all but that doesn't mean I can't say she's got good vocals. I don't like the PsVita but I can say the graphics are phenomenal. I still will never buy a Vita and if someone did give it to me as a gift I'd sell that thing quick.

I've heard Pachter say that the WiiU has good launch line up which is true. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional. I've also heard him say he loves Bayonetta and will buy a wiiu specifically for it. I did the same thing when I bought a psp to play FF7 crisis core. You don't have to be in love with something to praise an aspect of it. That is what separates fanboys from true gamers.



GianCarmen said:
I just dont understand the hate from Michael Pachter. Its like Nintendo did something so awful to him that he will never forgive them.


I think he created Great Giana Sisters back in the 80s...



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Ouroboros24 said:

Let me try this.  Let me try to defend Pachter.

Amidst all the success the Wii had garnered, despite all the acclaim, in terms of the Gametrailer crowd and all the 'Core' gamers, it's not lived up to their standards.  Standards from a online point of view, of third party point of view, of the persons who buys 15+ games during a calendar year. 

Wow, this is hard.

What I think Pachter is looking for is the 'oomp', the selling point, the clear cut driving seller for the console.  Given that the Gamepad is far more advanced than a second screen on the DS; it's been done.  I believe that thats the stitch that looms his reasoning.  From an analyst point of view, I think he expects more from a new generation console.  With all the rumors for the Sony and Microsoft next gen consoles, he expects Nintendo to be on par with the possible tech that they'll have--whatever it may be.  He's just not expecting that the 2 screen combo is revolunary as the possible virtual reality Microsoft might have( If you believe in that leaked transcript for the next xbox).

As for Third party support, he has a point.  Nintendo does best because they understand their product.  He's looking back at all the third party developers for the Wii and let's be honest, it was all mostly waggle.   

There's no reason to say that the Gamepad can't be implemented to be a genuine gaming experience, but history shows 3rd parties don't know what to do with it.  Just look at the Wii balance board.

Pachter, despite his tough treatment of Nintendo's Wii U, I think is just simply tough love for Nintendo.  Why, because he's an analyst and he has to be.  Nintendo is the hardest working company at driving the Video game industry.  For him to say that he isn't a Fan of Wii U, is him saying that it won't drive the industry towards higher success.  Of course he's a little more easy on Sony and Microsoft, but that's because they're the younger brothers of the games industry.  They look at Nintendo for guidance(a little too much, but I'm trying to be poetic).  

I'm not a complete fan of Pachter, but I respect his position in the games industry.  Whatever we may think of him, he is a member of that industry and a distinguished member at that.  He comes out every so often and says something about current trends and his opinions of it.  At the moment, he's not a fan, but since he is a fan, things can change. 

What I really want to know is what his opinion on Nintendo TVii.  Quick, someone ask him that question and CC Rohan.

Couple problems with your defense of Pachter.

He's a market analyst and he should not take the 'core' gamer viewpoint but that of the entire market. The entire market overwhelmingly liked the Wii over the others, yet he and 3rd parties picked others solely due to power differences.

The others continue the status quo, Nintendo is the only one that tries to push the audience to new extremes. They try to take gaming past other forms of entertainment and largely succeeded with DS and Wii. The Gamepad is the continuation of that. It takes what is becoming the norm (i.e. slate tablet computing in mobile environments) and puts that in a purely entertainment fashion. It is a big deal and as long as marketed right, should be another boom and another pull for the mass market.

Pachter should be seeing that potential, yet like the Wii before it, he is only looking at it from a core gamer point of view and a irrational need for cutting edge power. Wii and DS should of already proved that this market, this gaming console industry does not need or really want that in a large mass market scenario. All it wants is fun and exciting entertainment. Wii brought that. DS brought that. Wii U has the potential to bring that.

Pachter is not a good analyst. He was wrong day 1 on Wii and DS. He was continuously wrong through Wii's lifetime. But its his push for cutting edge and the narrowmindedness of dev houses that felt they needed that in order to survive which ultimately caused many of them to go out of business as costs ran too high.

Games like COD sell better than BF3 even though BF3 has next-gen graphics, AI, environments, etc on high-end PCs. Games like NSBMWii in 480p sell ten times over nearly any HD game that cost ten times to create. Why? Because its more about the game and the experience than the pretty tech. Same reason Wii was the dominate seller and was sold out for its first two years even though it was by far the lowest powered home console this gen.

Patcher is wrong again. He is blatantly ignoring the mass market for the core... the 10-15% of potential customers. Wii U may or may not hit Wii levels of 20m+ a year in sales, but it will sale well. It will be well received. It will be higher than the average 10m/yr the PS360 did and higher than neXtBox/PS4 if they go the same route of just increasing the power of the console (and price, size, power usage, etc).