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Forums - Nintendo - Wii U's GPGPU Squashes Xbox 360, PS3; Capable Of DirectX 11 Equivalent Graphics

Lusche said:
Crono141 said:

Also, TDP is very similar, and related.  You want low TDP chips in your console to keep it cool and quiet, just like your laptop.  And also just like your laptop, components cost a premium to get that low TDP.  If you want to compare performance cost in a home console with a TDP of 200w max, you need to see what laptop components would cost to get a fair idea.  Home consoles have more in common with Laptops than desktops.  Desktops get their power at a 600W plus cost.


but this is only if you have quadsli or rly old gpu for sli ...

gtx 680 with i7 2600k uses 300w max.

If you use ati you can get away with 200-250w.

I've got a 600W and 2X Geforce GTX 460.  The 600W supply is not sufficient to power both video cards.  Its also loud and hot as all get-out.  Not going to happen with a low TDP.



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Crono141 said:

I've got a 600W and 2X Geforce GTX 460.  The 600W supply is not sufficient to power both video cards.  Its also loud and hot as all get-out.  Not going to happen with a low TDP.


thats why I said old sli cards ... newer nvidia cards dont use that much power and amd even less ... like i said gtx 680 and i7 2600k only 300w

edit:

300w is the max you need for a current gen pc if you use a single core gpu ... (of course you need higher power supply then 300w)



osed125 said:
leo-j said:

if WII U was truely nexgen games would look more than just on par with ps3/360 ip.. also on wii u..

Reason for that it's that games this early won't look as good as games later in the system life cycle, developers are still understanding the system to get the most out of it. Here's Call of Duty 3 for the xbox 360 (which launch on 2006) just to give you the idea of how bad that looks compare to, lets say, Halo 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDfQ18eioM4

The difference it's insane.

That's not a good comparison to compare a current gen against a next gen console.

Check out Burnout Revenge-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX60S6bju_E&hd=1 Xbox and PS2 versions. Current gen at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90CdPPPsF6s&hd=1 - Xbox 360 version. Next gen at the time.

As you can see the 360 version looks far superior. If the Wii U was trully 'next gen' the it should be able to wipe the floor with the 360 and PS3 with no excuses. Truth of the matter is Nintendo has hedged it's bet on the controller again however this time around the control pad is an expensive peripheral and in order to keep costs down they've had to skimp on the Wii U innards. Even so the launch price of the Wii U is noticebly more than that of the Wii. Personally I don't mind too much as finally I get to play Nintendo games in glorious HD without having to mess about with PCs but my issue at the moment is price. For an underpowered system it's quite expensive and that's thanks to the control pad.



Badassbab said:
osed125 said:
leo-j said:

if WII U was truely nexgen games would look more than just on par with ps3/360 ip.. also on wii u..

Reason for that it's that games this early won't look as good as games later in the system life cycle, developers are still understanding the system to get the most out of it. Here's Call of Duty 3 for the xbox 360 (which launch on 2006) just to give you the idea of how bad that looks compare to, lets say, Halo 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDfQ18eioM4

The difference it's insane.

That's not a good comparison to compare a current gen against a next gen console.

Check out Burnout Revenge-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX60S6bju_E&hd=1 Xbox and PS2 versions. Current gen at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90CdPPPsF6s&hd=1 - Xbox 360 version. Next gen at the time.

As you can see the 360 version looks far superior. If the Wii U was trully 'next gen' the it should be able to wipe the floor with the 360 and PS3 with no excuses. Truth of the matter is Nintendo has hedged it's bet on the controller again however this time around the control pad is an expensive peripheral and in order to keep costs down they've had to skimp on the Wii U innards. Even so the launch price of the Wii U is noticebly more than that of the Wii. Personally I don't mind too much as finally I get to play Nintendo games in glorious HD without having to mess about with PCs but my issue at the moment is price. For an underpowered system it's quite expensive and that's thanks to the control pad.


The comparisons between xbox and xbox 360 games isn't really fair, since xbox 360 games ran in HD, and xbox and PS2 games did not.  That's an easy change for the eye to see.  Yes, it takes more power, but its an obvious difference.  There will be no such obvious difference this time around.  That one reason why WiiU looks "about the same" or a little better, there's no easy WOW factor.



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superchunk said:
pezus said:

But like I and others said in that other thread, there's no need for a $599 PS4 for the leap to be substantial. 

1. No expensive blu-ray drive this time around

2. It's coming at least 7 years after PS3 came out (8 years for 720 vs. 360). As a comparison, PS3 came 6 years after the PS2 and 360 came ~4 years after Xbox. People tend to forget this point.

3. Do you know how much tech has advanced in these years? 

Did you actually read Viper's YEN based costs for next-gen? A PS4 cannot be more than 10k over the Wii U without creating a scenario where they are $600 in NA/EU. With that in mind, there is no way Sony will have the tech that will be greatly more powerful than what Wii U already has with only a year difference between launches.

Wii U will be able to have 100% of the same games and game quality as its competitors.

All three next-gen are probably going to be considered around 5-8x more powerful than current gen vs the massive jump from PS2 to PS3.

You're forgetting that PS4 and 720 are unlikely to use a tablet/second screen controller. Considering stand-alone tablet controllers are around $100 for the consumer, even if they only cost Nintendo 50$ to manufacture, that's still an extra $50 Sony can spend on the components. This is on top of the component costs that are likely to decrease over the extra year Sony have before release.



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Badassbab said:

That's not a good comparison to compare a current gen against a next gen console.

Check out Burnout Revenge-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX60S6bju_E&hd=1 Xbox and PS2 versions. Current gen at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90CdPPPsF6s&hd=1 - Xbox 360 version. Next gen at the time.

As you can see the 360 version looks far superior. If the Wii U was trully 'next gen' the it should be able to wipe the floor with the 360 and PS3 with no excuses. Truth of the matter is Nintendo has hedged it's bet on the controller again however this time around the control pad is an expensive peripheral and in order to keep costs down they've had to skimp on the Wii U innards. Even so the launch price of the Wii U is noticebly more than that of the Wii. Personally I don't mind too much as finally I get to play Nintendo games in glorious HD without having to mess about with PCs but my issue at the moment is price. For an underpowered system it's quite expensive and that's thanks to the control pad.

Something that I didn't think about when I made that post (glad I understand it now) it's that the PS2, Xbox and GC games were in SD, while the 360 and PS3 are in HD. Like other users have said the difference in very noticeable in some games (but it really depends in which ones you are trying to compare, some of them looked almost exactly the same).

But now that all games are in HD those differences will be harder to notice with each passing gen, you can still argue about games like Watch Dogs and Star Wars 1313, but I'm pretty confident the Wii U can run those games (maybe not at the same level as the demos but still be able to play them quite nicely), or I can be dead wrong on this one, but it really doesn't matter to me since I have a PC where I can play those games.



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Badassbab said:

 For an underpowered system it's quite expensive and that's thanks to the control pad.


How is it expensive? Here in Australia at least the WiiU is launch below what the PS3 costs atm and that is after 6 years on the market. So unless Sony does a price cut here, the WiiU will be cheaper.



 

 

pezus said:

This is exactly why we should see more of a difference in effects, anti-aliasing and performance from the Wii U. Wii U doesn't have to render more pixels, it's the same amount of pixels as the PS3/360 which means everything else should increase way more than usually. But we aren't seeing it.

I think the problem is most games are direct ports and/or are focusing on input device.   All those early X360 games you have mentioned had their own development team and they focused on pushing the graphics.

Naturally, we won't see a big of a jump from Xbox to X360 with current gen to Wii U simply because diminsihign returns is a factor and the Wii U isn't mean to be as big of a jump.   But a jump does exist.   We simply aren't seeing it because everything is either a direct port or a Wii to Wii U conversion....or simply not designed to be a graphics showcase.

 

When you use the same assets and run largely the exact same code, you can't expect new shaders to simply show up out of nowhere.



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Viper1 said:
pezus said:

This is exactly why we should see more of a difference in effects, anti-aliasing and performance from the Wii U. Wii U doesn't have to render more pixels, it's the same amount of pixels as the PS3/360 which means everything else should increase way more than usually. But we aren't seeing it.

I think the problem is most games are direct ports and/or are focusing on input device.   All those early X360 games you have mentioned had their own development team and they focused on pushing the graphics.

Naturally, we won't see a big of a jump from Xbox to X360 with current gen to Wii U simply because diminsihign returns is a factor and the Wii U isn't mean to be as big of a jump.   But a jump does exist.   We simply aren't seeing it because everything is either a direct port or a Wii to Wii U conversion....or simply not designed to be a graphics showcase.

 

When you use the same assets and run largely the exact same code, you can't expect new shaders to simply show up out of nowhere.

So what you're saying is that devolopers are generally using game engines meant for the PS3/360? I can see that. As for Nintendo, I don't know. Pikmin 3 started as a Wii game, so I don't expect much. Maybe we have to wait for EAD Tokyo's next game to see what the Wii U has in store. After all, it is Nintendo's go-to graphics studio.



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I honestly don't care about PS4/720 ports. If I want a game like Star Wars 1313, I'll just buy it on the PS4.

I'm not buying the Wii U version of Madden NFL 13 because it's missing the physics engine and I'll probably pass on Assassin's Creed 3 because it may not have all the effects of the PS3/360 version (lazy port). So why would I accept lesser versions of PS4/720/PC ports? If I'm paying $50-$60, I'm going to buy the best version available to me.

I would be quite happy with a e6760 GPU as that indicates the Wii U is quite capable on its own and that bodes well for games made from the ground up. That's what's important to me, this would be a decent step up from the 360/PS3 and that's good for games like Super Mario 3D, Bayonetta 2, and whatever other exclusive content other companies want to make.