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Forums - Nintendo - REAL official specs are here. Lets dissect !GPGPU! !2GB RAM!

disolitude said:

Yeah, its so rediculous reading some of these RAM expectations. I've benched current top games on PC and even with Windows 7 running along with browsers, anti virus stuff and many other processes, I've never seen RAM usage go over 6 gigs. And that is with 3 monitors. Games on consoles won't need more than 2 GB of ram next gen.

Regarding Nintendo, I hope the GPU has some dedicated RAM as well. Maybe 500 MB on the GPU and 1 GB for system. If so, WiiU is in great shape.


Hopefully that will change as we finally move to 64BIt games, aparently going forward some Frosbyte engine games will require 64Bit for example. Once we get past the 32Bit wall I imagine that we will easily shoot past 4GB RAM+VRAM and get more seemless worlds with no loading and a lot less popin. Consoles that are not limited to less than 512MB should help move it along a lot. 

OT: There is no real new information other than 1GB of RAM for the OS and the speed of the disc drive which is very nice, power draw and internal storage.

Everything else was already pretty heavily rumoured or already confirmed, 25GB discs, 1GB RAM for games, semi modern customised AMD GPU bassed on R700 with GPGPU, 3 core custom IBM CPU with some form of Power 7 tech. 

There is no way of gauging how performance stacks up at all without architecture and clock speed details.



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CGI-Quality said:
errorpwns said:
CGI-Quality said:
errorpwns said:
Do you people really expect the 720 and PS4 to have 8GB of memory? Oh wow haha. Most desktops don't have 8gb right now. You can game perfectly fine on 4gb even on Windows 7. 8Gb just adds more room for comfort. Heck 16gb of ram in a desktop has been shown to REDUCE fps in certain situations. When the desktop has too much memory than it needs. Higher speed memory > Amount usually. 4gb of high speed memory will go a long way over 8gb of slower memory. Of course there's a huge difference between 512mb and 2gb of memory. Next gen consoles will be fine with 2-3gb. Even 4 might be overkill.

It has? Where can I see that? 


Well mileage will vary of course, but as of now there is no noticable difference between 8gb of ddr3, 12gb of ddr3, and 16gb of ddr3 at the same speed.  Heck in some test 16gb has been shown to get a frame or two less.  For gaming I'd rather have 8gb of 2133 instead of 16gb of 1600 or 1333.  Since going from 1600 to 2133 makes a huge speed impact.  Even if it is less overall memory. For gaming it just simply isn't required. All about bottlenecks.  If you're working on 3d modeling and heavy particle testing, etc then you want 16gb of memory. Other than that not needed.  Faster memory instead.  

No notable difference is believable. More than 2-4GB probably isn't required. However, areduction in performance with more RAM, is not something I've heard of nor seen.

For a guy like me who will be gaming on a rig with 32GB of RAM @ 1600MHz, I don't expect to see a loss in fps. In fact, the GPU and CPU combo will impact that much more than RAM (some place else I don't expect to be lacking), and in any case that I've seen, the extra RAM will only help. Even for threading and rendering (stuff I do as a game developer / graphic designer), that depends greatly on your CPU, with the GPU picking up of the slack for anti-aliasing and smoothing.

RAM will hardly, if ever, be an issue if there's more than needed. In a gaming console, I agree that 2-4GB is sufficient right now, though.

Likely he means that beyond a certain point, more RAM is so utterly negligible that normal performance-margin-of-error factors can cause it to perform slightly slower than systems with 75% of the RAM.



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zarx said:
disolitude said:

Yeah, its so rediculous reading some of these RAM expectations. I've benched current top games on PC and even with Windows 7 running along with browsers, anti virus stuff and many other processes, I've never seen RAM usage go over 6 gigs. And that is with 3 monitors. Games on consoles won't need more than 2 GB of ram next gen.

Regarding Nintendo, I hope the GPU has some dedicated RAM as well. Maybe 500 MB on the GPU and 1 GB for system. If so, WiiU is in great shape.


Hopefully that will change as we finally move to 64BIt games, aparently going forward some Frosbyte engine games will require 64Bit for example. Once we get past the 32Bit wall I imagine that we will easily shoot past 4GB RAM+VRAM and get more seemless worlds with no loading and a lot less popin. Consoles that are not limited to less than 512MB should help move it along a lot. 

OT: There is no real new information other than 1GB of RAM for the OS and the speed of the disc drive which is very nice, power draw and internal storage.

Everything else was already pretty heavily rumoured or already confirmed, 25GB discs, 1GB RAM for games, semi modern customised AMD GPU bassed on R700 with GPGPU, 3 core custom IBM CPU with some form of Power 7 tech. 

There is no way of gauging how performance stacks up at all without architecture and clock speed details.

For sure if we count VRAM as well. Hell I've seen benches of games that go over 2 GB of VRAM alone. Metro 2033 maxed on 3 screens is doing 2.5 GB of VRAM. 

But GPU RAM aside,  I doubt games will ever use more than 4 GB of system RAM. Hell even 2 GB seems like a strech for next gen. 



haxxiy said:
About 40-45W of actual power consumption then? Assuming around 25W for graphical purposes and the same efficiency of current 28nm GPU/GPGPUs (15 GFLOPS/W) we should have around 375 GFLOPS for the GPU, about 1.5 times the X360's Xenos (but some 20-25% more efficient factoring optimizations in?). That's consistent with a RV770 chip operating at about 300 MHz. Mmm....

5x Blu-Ray drive then? Fair enough I guess.

Also, RAM ended up being a good surprise. Like it was mentioned, probably we're going to see some extra ~500MB being available to games during the console's life cycle.


Well Nintendo usally use a fab one step behind the latest for yeild reasons so the GPU is probably 40nm not 28nm. Also there is  decent chance that the Wii U uses some form of SoC/APU design considering the size of the console, so could be the same 45nm as the CPU in theory (that is what AMD does for their APUs). 

lilbroex said:
With the 45 out of 75 watts thing. I wonder if it is intentionally clocked lower than what is can actually do like the PSP was.

It would be interesting if Nintendo opens the valve's later.

Doubt it, power supplies generally lose efficiency beyond 50-60% load. So 45w peak load is about ideal for a 75w peak power supply. The PS3 phats had a 380w powersuply but under load it only consumed around 200w, for example.



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disolitude said:

For sure if we count VRAM as well. Hell I've seen benches of games that go over 2 GB of VRAM alone. Metro 2033 maxed on 3 screens is doing 2.5 GB of VRAM. 

But GPU RAM aside,  I doubt games will ever use more than 4 GB of system RAM. Hell even 2 GB seems like a strech for next gen. 

Well for consoles we are talking combined and as far as memory addressing goes in applications it's all takes up address space. In a 32Bit game if it chewed through 2GB of VRAM then it would technically only be able to address 2GB of system RAM, hence why most games today (which are mostly 32Bit) won't go past ~3GB of RAM usage.



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errorpwns said:
crissindahouse said:
 

you can buy a new 250gb hdd for 360 for $50 or 320gb for $58, just as info, no clue where some people buy their stuff to pay the same for a used product with half the space...

but i also like if you can use every hdd, it's still cheaper then but i still think there should be one console with at least 250gb or so, not so beautiful to have a hdd on your console in your living room which will be needed for me.


It is, you can hide the HDD wherever you want.  And if you're that crazy about looks just buy an SSD or a laptop sized drive and hide it behind the console.  If you get a decent looking enclosure I don't see the darn problem.  You people just want to find every little thing to knit pick don't you.  60 dollars is the cheapest I can find a new 250 xbox HDD.  Which is still overpriced.  Seeing as I can find a new 500gb HDD for that price.  The HDD in the Wii-U isn't probably a physical drive even.  It's a nand flash chip I'm guessing.  Which means it's a lot faster than a physical HDD.  To put 250GB of flash memory inside the Wii-U it would jack the price of the console up by at least 100 dollars.  And that 100 dollars is factoring in bulk prices. Since a 250GB ssd on the consumer level is 170 at the cheapest. 

"nitpicking" said the guy from the the last of us pax demo thread searching for every small thing which wasn't perfect...

and no, i don't try to do that, i just want to buy a wii u and i would prefer one with a hdd in the console even if i would have to pay 50 bucks more for a 250gb hdd console or so instead of hiding a hdd anywhere behind anything. and i wouldn't need  flash memory for that. i would be totally fine to get what i already have in two other consoles and my hdd i will have to use now for the wii u is also no flash memory so why do you think the 250gb drive had to be one then?

and that's obviously only what i would prefer and would like to see, not what i say nintendo should have done for everyone, for me it would be better, maybe for most it wouldn't.

btw it still stands that i can buy a 250gb new for 50 bucks (just check amazon as example, 50 for 250gb and 58 for 320gb) or even less for the 360 and don't have to buy a 120gb refurbished for that price. that's what you said to compare it with "120gb sata for 20 bucks" and there is a little difference between 120gb refurbished for 50 bucks or 250gb new for 50 bucks. it's still more expensive like i already said but that makes it double the gb for the same price and new instead of refurbished, i would say that makes at least 50% difference to what you said first^^

and i didn't want to make more out of it as it reall yis, i just wanted to say that you can get it way cheaper as you said and that i would prefer a hdd, not more and it was nothing against nintendo or whatever.



Viper1 said:
the2real4mafol said:
Viper1 said:

You can use SD cards and USB HDD's to increase the storage.

You can use any standard USB hard drive?

Yes.

Cool, i'll probably get a 500 gb hard drive for it then, when I get my Wii U. I should never need to expand my memory ever again then



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zarx said:
disolitude said:

For sure if we count VRAM as well. Hell I've seen benches of games that go over 2 GB of VRAM alone. Metro 2033 maxed on 3 screens is doing 2.5 GB of VRAM. 

But GPU RAM aside,  I doubt games will ever use more than 4 GB of system RAM. Hell even 2 GB seems like a strech for next gen. 

Well for consoles we are talking combined and as far as memory addressing goes in applications it's all takes up address space. In a 32Bit game if it chewed through 2GB of VRAM then it would technically only be able to address 2GB of system RAM, hence why most games today (which are mostly 32Bit) won't go past ~3GB of RAM usage.

Yeah, but there is a big difference between 32 bit and 64 bit games performance. If this benchmark is any indication http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ram-memory-upgrade,2778-8.html  Look at HL2 32bit vs 64bit.



crissindahouse said:
errorpwns said:
crissindahouse said:
 

you can buy a new 250gb hdd for 360 for $50 or 320gb for $58, just as info, no clue where some people buy their stuff to pay the same for a used product with half the space...

but i also like if you can use every hdd, it's still cheaper then but i still think there should be one console with at least 250gb or so, not so beautiful to have a hdd on your console in your living room which will be needed for me.


It is, you can hide the HDD wherever you want.  And if you're that crazy about looks just buy an SSD or a laptop sized drive and hide it behind the console.  If you get a decent looking enclosure I don't see the darn problem.  You people just want to find every little thing to knit pick don't you.  60 dollars is the cheapest I can find a new 250 xbox HDD.  Which is still overpriced.  Seeing as I can find a new 500gb HDD for that price.  The HDD in the Wii-U isn't probably a physical drive even.  It's a nand flash chip I'm guessing.  Which means it's a lot faster than a physical HDD.  To put 250GB of flash memory inside the Wii-U it would jack the price of the console up by at least 100 dollars.  And that 100 dollars is factoring in bulk prices. Since a 250GB ssd on the consumer level is 170 at the cheapest. 

"nitpicking" said the guy from the the last of us pax demo thread searching for every small thing which wasn't perfect...

and no, i don't try to do that, i just want to buy a wii u and i would prefer one with a hdd in the console even if i would have to pay 50 bucks more for a 250gb hdd console or so instead of hiding a hdd anywhere behind anything. and i wouldn't need  flash memory for that. i would be totally fine to get what i already have in two other consoles and my hdd i will have to use now for the wii u is also no flash memory so why do you think the 250gb drive had to be one then?

and that's obviously only what i would prefer and would like to see, not what i say nintendo should have done for everyone, for me it would be better, maybe for most it wouldn't.

btw it still stands that i can buy a 250gb new for 50 bucks (just check amazon as example, 50 for 250gb and 58 for 320gb) or even less for the 360 and don't have to buy a 120gb refurbished for that price. that's what you said to compare it with "120gb sata for 20 bucks" and there is a little difference between 120gb refurbished for 50 bucks or 250gb new for 50 bucks. it's still more expensive like i already said but that makes it double the gb for the same price and new instead of refurbished, i would say that makes at least 50% difference to what you said first^^

and i didn't want to make more out of it as it reall yis, i just wanted to say that you can get it way cheaper as you said and that i would prefer a hdd, not more and it was nothing against nintendo or whatever.


I can get a 1tb drive for 70 dollars. A 320gb new xbox drive is around 60 dollars.  How is that not insanely overpriced?  I paid 50 for my 750GB desktop drive a year ago and 50 for my 500gb 2 years ago.  So you're saying I should have to pay the same price for half th espace?  Also the 250gb in the Wii-U would have to be nand due to the way the console was designed.  There is no place for a physical drive.  That's why.



errorpwns said:
 

I can get a 1tb drive for 70 dollars. A 320gb new xbox drive is around 60 dollars.  How is that not insanely overpriced?  I paid 50 for my 750GB desktop drive a year ago and 50 for my 500gb 2 years ago.  So you're saying I should have to pay the same price for half th espace?  Also the 250gb in the Wii-U would have to be nand due to the way the console was designed.  There is no place for a physical drive.  That's why.

i said now two times that it still costs more as a normal hdd but is way cheaper as you said first. what's the problem to understand there? i did never say that it isn't maybe still overpriced.

and yes, it wouldn't fit in a wii u, if it would be like i want the whole console would look different then which i obviously would accept then...

so, i would like to have a wii u with hdd even if the console would look different then. it was just about what would be perfect for me, not what other people want or if this would be worse for 95% of people so no, i don't say you should pay the same for half the space, no clue why you think i talk about you or others. i would prefer a console with hdd so i wouldn't have to hide one anywhere even if it would cost me more then because it would look better to me. i also pay more for a clock if i like the look more even if the time isn't more accurate and it is only a design aspect to pay more.

on average i buy maybe 50 new games per console + all the other stuff in the lifespan of the console. 50€ more or less aren't really what i care about.