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Forums - General Discussion - Jesus Christ of Nazareth loves you!

Jay520 said:
DaRev said:

Ok, thanks really for some straight forward questions. Because people in here seem happy to take religian and especially Christianity as a joke.

1) Yes, untruths about Islam I think. How, well, I haven studied it but if it does teach e.g., fundamentally, that its OK to take revenge on people then I think its full of untruth. Christianity on the other hand teaches that revenge is God's alone, and that you should always forgive. That whole revenge killing jihad western war thing, just doesn't sit well with me.

2) Nothing in Christianity is false, if not so, then quote from the BIBLE and lets see what you consider false. What in the Bible you find false?

3) Well, essentially God would tell you, because he loves you and wouldn't want you to make a wrong choice. Seriously. But you need to have an open mind to believe that.

1.) Using your logic, couldn't I just say Christianity is wrong because....well, the whole slavery thing. The whole slavery thing just doesn't sit well with me. Therefore, Christianity isn wrong.

2.) Sorry, I didn't mean false, perhaps immoralities is better. Here are some versus that condone slavery:

Exodus 21:1-4 "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself." 

Deuteronomy 15:12-18 "And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the Lord thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him."

Exodus 21:7 "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do."

 

 

Also, the fact that if you don't believe in God, then you will be tortured for all of eternity. It doesn't matter if you're the most moral person in the world. It doesn't matter if you cured aids. It doesn't matter if you've saved thousands of children from hunger. It doesn't matter if you're an overall good person. If you don't believe in God, then you go to Hell. Not for a short period of time, but forever. That's not moral at all.

3.) I have an open-mind and I don't believe.

Jay520, don't bother wasting your time with him.



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DaRev said:

FACT, yes a FACT, i.e. can be proven. The Bible is, inter alia, a book of historical facts and eye witness accounts of God existing through Jesus. How do you prove somethng in court my friend, one way is with witness statements, and the Bible is full of them. So yes FACT! Conversely, do you know anyone that was there at the 'big bang' to give an accouunt that that is what really happened - or did scientists just pull it out of their butts?

The title of the programme that clip is from actually agrees with you; The Big Bang Theory. I doubt they pulled it 'out of their butts', but based it on what they known about the universe and they did some guesswork. I don't see it as anything more.

Also mental patients and people who take drugs see lots of bizarre things, are they valid eye witnesses? People also lie, they lie everywhere and all the time. Are liars valid eye witnesses? Also, as stories are passed from one person to another they can become altered, both intentially and unintentionally. I find it hard to believe Bible could be immune to these factors.

Followig on from another of your comment "Nothing in Christianity is false, if not so, then quote from the BIBLE and lets see what you consider false. What in the Bible you find false?" Here is one I've always found a bit puzzling. Originally, there were supposedly only two humans in existence; Adam and Eve. They had two children; Cain and Abel. Cain murdered Abel. Where did the rest of humanity come from?




ASStronaut said:

Jay520, don't bother wasting your time with him.


Don't worry, I'm alright. I'm interested in his response.



Jay520 said:
DaRev said:

Is it, really? Well, let's consider the Op shall we? I agree ENTIRELY with the Op, so I don't have to prove anything. Do you agree ENTIRELY with the Op? If not, prove why you don't.


No. Since you and the OP says God exist, then both you and the OP have to prove he exists.

When people believe things, they usually have good reasons behind it. The fact that your only justifucation for your beliefs is  "I can't be proven wrong" is a testament to the fact that you actually don't have any justification.

To prove to you, you'll have to read the source of my proof aka the Bible. But I know you're not going to do that, not now at least. So, who do think created (Wii) U or this world - God did. who else could? There must be a God, as how do you explain such a PERFECT world? You think it's all random, like the computer you're typing on? Did that PERFECT computer just happen without a creator? That's my proof, beyond that lets have a bible study.



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DaRev said:

FACT, yes a FACT, i.e. can be proven. The Bible is, inter alia, a book of historical facts and eye witness accounts of God existing through Jesus. How do you prove somethng in court my friend, one way is with witness statements, and the Bible is full of them. So yes FACT! Conversely, do you know anyone that was there at the 'big bang' to give an accouunt that that is what really happened - or did scientists just pull it out of their butts?

No it's not. It's a collection of stories (many written well after the death of Jesus) put together by Eastern Roman leaders. They decided what gospels and stories to include in their version (and which to call  and chose a small minority that spoke about Jesus' divinity. As you should well know, humans are open to corruption. Now consider that the bible is one text written by humans and collated by humans. Citing the bible as proof is like saying the story of Hercules is proof that Zeus existed.

And witness statements in court are largely unreliable and open to manipulation. It's why it's difficult to convict someone based only on witness testimony. Normally you also need further evidence. So... where is that evidence? If the bible and Jesus' divinity really are true then there should be plenty of evidence.

Lastly, as you don't seem to understand the "Big Bang" or how science works, so maybe you should do some wider reading... here's a starting point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

Scientists don't pull theories "out of their butts", they leave that to the overly religious and ignorant.



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DaRev said:
Jay520 said:
DaRev said:

Is it, really? Well, let's consider the Op shall we? I agree ENTIRELY with the Op, so I don't have to prove anything. Do you agree ENTIRELY with the Op? If not, prove why you don't.


No. Since you and the OP says God exist, then both you and the OP have to prove he exists.

When people believe things, they usually have good reasons behind it. The fact that your only justifucation for your beliefs is  "I can't be proven wrong" is a testament to the fact that you actually don't have any justification.

To prove to you, you'll have to read the source of my proof aka the Bible. But I know you're not going to do that, not now at least. So, who do think created (Wii) U or this world - God did. who else could? There must be a God, as how do you explain such a PERFECT world? You think it's all random, like the computer you're typing on? Did that PERFECT computer just happen without a creator? That's my proof, beyond that lets have a bible study.

That post seems imply that you believe God may not be a physical entity but more of an force or energy that is responsible for shaping the universe.



Jay520 said:
ASStronaut said:

Jay520, don't bother wasting your time with him.


Don't worry, I'm alright. I'm interested in his response.

Yeah but his responses are doo-doo.



Wii U Nintendo Network ID, Borode

XBOX Live ID, Borode

DaRev said:

To prove to you, you'll have to read the source of my proof aka the Bible. But I know you're not going to do that, not now at least. So, who do think created (Wii) U or this world - God did. who else could? There must be a God, as how do you explain such a PERFECT world? You think it's all random, like the computer you're typing on? Did that PERFECT computer just happen without a creator? That's my proof, beyond that lets have a bible study.


I've read enough and I've already discovered some untrooths.

As for who/what created the universe? The way I see it: The Universe creating itself is just as bizarre as a God creating Himself. Except the difference is...we know the universe exists, but we don't know God exists. The only reasno people suggests that God does exist is because they say the Universe creating itself is too bizarre, but again...God creating Himself is just as bizarre. Why assume that God can create Himself when the Universe can't?

And assuming God did somehow "bring" himself into existence, there's also infinitely more questions: Is God a male or female? Genderless? Is God the Universe itself? Is He an object? Is he conscious? Does he care about anything? Are there multiple Gods? One? Two? Three? Fifteen? Thirty? Five Hundred Gods? Is every human on Earth a small fragment of God himself? How could God create the universe? The Universe is EVERYTHING. If God wasn't in the Universe...then how could he even exists? Because he's God...oh yeah. Did God create more universe? How many? Is our Universe just the remains of what happens when God takes a leak? Is God in our universe? Does God have a purpose? No, well why is he going through all this trouble? He does have a purpose? Well what is his purpose? And Why has it taken him billions of years to accomplish his purpose? Surely, he could have accomplished his goal within all this time. Why did it take God so long to create our Earth? Why didn't he just snap the Earth into existence the moment he existed? Does God go from universe to universe every few billion years just to check up on his creation? Why doesn't God prove to people that he exists? Surely, he can realize that some people have mistakenly chose to worship the wrong God? Why does God make us live on Earth? Why does he not just send us to Heaven or Hell when we're first born? Surely, He will know if we're good or evil? And if someone thinks God made a mistake, he can just say "I'm God, I don't make mistakes. You were going to be evil, I know it". And then the person will be like, "You're right, I would have been evil, send me to Hell". Why does He put us through test if he knows very well if we will fail or pass? Does God want us to be evil? Then why did he give us free will? He created billions and billions of IMPERFECT humans ALL with free will AND an infinite amount of oppurtunities to become evil. Andyone with a decent knowledge of statistics knew that AT LEAST some of them would have turned out evil. And I'm pretty sure God has a decent knowledge of stastics. wait...God knew beforehand that a lot of people would have turned out evil. Why did he just let it happen? Is God a dick? Will I go to Hell for that? If I go to Hell, why must I go for an eternity? Surely, I can change to be good, right? wait, I can't change to be good? So, I'm stuck evil? So why am I being punished for something I'm stuck with? AND for an eternity? Really?....

etc, etc... And there's infinitely more questions....all unanswerable...and all based on a premise that might be true. 

Just because you don't know the answer to something doesn't mean you should automatically conclude "GOD DID IT!!" Using that logic, we would have never learned anything! There are things we don't know, true. But all that means is we have a lot to learn. A long time ago, people said the Sun went down because God pushed it down. Now we know that it wasn't God pushing the Sun. In fact, the sun wasn't even moving; the Earth was actually just rotating. We may one day discover why/how everything started. But until then, just accept that we don't know. We shouldn't be close-minded and assume God if the answer.



DaRev said:
Jay520 said:
DaRev said:

Is it, really? Well, let's consider the Op shall we? I agree ENTIRELY with the Op, so I don't have to prove anything. Do you agree ENTIRELY with the Op? If not, prove why you don't.


No. Since you and the OP says God exist, then both you and the OP have to prove he exists.

When people believe things, they usually have good reasons behind it. The fact that your only justifucation for your beliefs is  "I can't be proven wrong" is a testament to the fact that you actually don't have any justification.

To prove to you, you'll have to read the source of my proof aka the Bible. But I know you're not going to do that, not now at least. So, who do think created (Wii) U or this world - God did. who else could? There must be a God, as how do you explain such a PERFECT world? You think it's all random, like the computer you're typing on? Did that PERFECT computer just happen without a creator? That's my proof, beyond that lets have a bible study.

haha nonsense.

1. The Bible is as reliable as Wikipedia. I.e. not at all.
2. This world is far from perfect.
And even if it was it doesn't need a supercomputer to do all that. It's just probability calculus.
There are billion upon billion of planets in our universe. The likelyhood that one of them looks just like ours is extremely high. So high that there are most likely multiple thousands of earth like planets with intelligent life on it.

You claim it perfect because you can live on it. If it was any other planet that you could live on, it would be perfect as well in your eyes. Even though it might be completely different to Earth.
Then there comes evolution which explains why you think it's so perfect. Because the humans have just like all living things adjusted to this very planet and its environment. If you didn't you'd be dead and you couldn't think how perfect it is.



Jay520 said:
DaRev said:

To prove to you, you'll have to read the source of my proof aka the Bible. But I know you're not going to do that, not now at least. So, who do think created (Wii) U or this world - God did. who else could? There must be a God, as how do you explain such a PERFECT world? You think it's all random, like the computer you're typing on? Did that PERFECT computer just happen without a creator? That's my proof, beyond that lets have a bible study.


I've read enough and I've already discovered some untrooths.

As for who/what created the universe? The way I see it: The Universe creating itself is just as bizarre as a God creating Himself. Except the difference is...we know the universe exists, but we don't know God exists. The only reasno people suggests that God does exist is because they say the Universe creating itself is too bizarre, but again...God creating Himself is just as bizarre. Why assume that God can create Himself when the Universe can't?

And assuming God did somehow "bring" himself into existence, there's also infinitely more questions: Is God a male or female? Genderless? Is God the Universe itself? Is He an object? Is he conscious? Does he care about anything? Are there multiple Gods? One? Two? Three? Fifteen? Thirty? Five Hundred Gods? Is every human on Earth a small fragment of God himself? How could God create the universe? The Universe is EVERYTHING. If God wasn't in the Universe...then how could he even exists? Because he's God...oh yeah. Did God create more universe? How many? Is our Universe just the remains of what happens when God takes a leak? Is God in our universe? Does God have a purpose? No, well why is he going through all this trouble? He does have a purpose? Well what is his purpose? And Why has it taken him billions of years to accomplish his purpose? Surely, he could have accomplished his goal within all this time. Why did it take God so long to create our Earth? Why didn't he just snap the Earth into existence the moment he existed? Does God go from universe to universe every few billion years just to check up on his creation? Why doesn't God prove to people that he exists? Surely, he can realize that some people have mistakenly chose to worship the wrong God? Why does God make us live on Earth? Why does he not just send us to Heaven or Hell when we're first born? Surely, He will know if we're good or evil? And if someone thinks God made a mistake, he can just say "I'm God, I don't make mistakes. You were going to be evil, I know it". And then the person will be like, "You're right, I would have been evil, send me to Hell". Why does He put us through test if he knows very well if we will fail or pass? Does God want us to be evil? Then why did he give us free will? He created billions and billions of IMPERFECT humans ALL with free will AND an infinite amount of oppurtunities to become evil. Andyone with a decent knowledge of statistics knew that AT LEAST some of them would have turned out evil. And I'm pretty sure God has a decent knowledge of stastics. wait...God knew beforehand that a lot of people would have turned out evil. Why did he just let it happen? Is God a dick? Will I go to Hell for that? If I go to Hell, why must I go for an eternity? Surely, I can change to be good, right? wait, I can't change to be good? So, I'm stuck evil? So why am I being punished for something I'm stuck with? AND for an eternity? Really?....

etc, etc... And there's infinitely more questions....all unanswerable...and all based on a premise that might be true. 

Just because you don't know the answer to something doesn't mean you should automatically conclude "GOD DID IT!!" Using that logic, we would have never learned anything! There are things we don't know, true. But all that means is we have a lot to learn. A long time ago, people said the Sun went down because God pushed it down. Now we know that it wasn't God pushing the Sun. In fact, the sun wasn't even moving; the Earth was actually just rotating. We may one day discover why/how everything started. But until then, just accept that we don't know. We shouldn't be close-minded and assume God if the answer.

You can throw as many words as you like at him but he will still keep coming like the Terminator.

I guess "GOD DID IT" is enough for him.



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