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Forums - General - Jesus Christ of Nazareth loves you!

Runa216 on 15 September 2012
DaRev said:
Your point:

1) thats doesn't deny the FACT that there  is a devine father and he had rules in place long before you,...came of age.

2) correct, to an extent. Because god's teaching are both physical and spiritual at the same time. So some can be explained scientifically, like man being created from the Earth, but others like the existance of a Hell, well science might have some trouble sorting that out, for that, my friend, you'll need spiritual discernment.

You are living in a fairly tale right now, if you believe you can look to science for every answer you need, science, which contradicts itself every moment it 'discovers' something new. Oh, and in case you missed the point, Christians believe in science to, so we are complete. People like you on the other hand lack something, non-physical, and thus are incomplete.

1 - There is no evidence or PROOOF that your claim is correct...therefore it is not a fact.  there's hear-say, b ut nothing more. I can SAY I saw a ghost or a gryphon, but that doesnt make it true, just like the bible isn't necesarily true just becuase some people claim it is. 

2 - see #1



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Runa216 on 15 September 2012
Jay520 said:
Player1x3 said:

It's dumb to seek evidence for irrational beliefs such as theism and atheism


atheism is not a belief. it's the opposite.

if atheism is a belief, 'Off" is a TV station.



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Runa216 on 15 September 2012
DaRev said:
Runa216 said:
DaRev said:
Runa216 said:
Raido said:
So Jesus did all the miracles in a time, where people could't record it properly with cameras, etc. And now, where we have all these things, no unexplainable miracles happen... Hmm...

Don't expect logic from religion, that's kind of the point. 


really? religion says don't steal or sleep with another man's wife - is that hard for you to understand why? or do you need a sign as well, on why such is bad?

Decency is not the same thing as logic.  


really? why? I can think logically why decency is a good thing. Is it illogical to do so? Please, explain your wisdom and how you are able to separate decency from logic - the floor is yours, writer.

They're not related.  Kindness, Decency, civility, those things are all tangentially related.  Logic has nothing to do with kindness.  Logic is smart thinking, intelligent courses of action, well thought out decisions.  While it is often logical to be kind to fellow people, the two terms are not synonymous.  Correlation does not equal causality. 



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DaRev on 15 September 2012

@ Jay520
1) No, because Slavery as in the Biblical times, was nothing wrong with it. Like Marriage back then people were married at much younger ages because they followed certain RULES connected with marriage. Today marriage is a joke and not used the way it was intended. Slavery in its modern context is wrong I agree, but the way it was meant in Biblical times where you worked and someone, and a master took CARE of you, there’s nothing wrong in that.
2) – Nothing wrong with that verse from Exodus, remember those were different times. Back then people would have been glad to be slaves. Not in the context Slavery is used today though.

- Now the verse from Deuteronomy I see nothing wrong in that verse either. For it is teaching how you treat a slave once he has worked and is free, how to help him. Again Slavery back then had a different meaning.
3) Now, regarding sending people to hell, God doesn’t send you to Hell, you chose to go there by your disobedience. Like if you live in America and don’t pay your taxes. Is the tax man then wrong for throwing you in jail? You think if you save 10 starving African kids this year and don’t pay your taxes, you can go tell the taxman I’m a good person so don’t penalize me? Well, God is like the taxman, and he wants something from you, you either pay your dues or you don’t it’s up to you, just be assure however, that there are consequences to you disobedience.
Sorry for the indirect reply, I’m on a different PC that doesn’t display this forum properly.



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Jay520 on 15 September 2012
DaRev said:
@ Jay520
1) No, because Slavery as in the Biblical times, was nothing wrong with it. Like Marriage back then people were married at much younger ages because they followed certain RULES connected with marriage. Today marriage is a joke and not used the way it was intended. Slavery in its modern context is wrong I agree, but the way it was meant in Biblical times where you worked and someone, and a master took CARE of you, there’s nothing wrong in that.
2) – Nothing wrong with that verse from Exodus, remember those were different times. Back then people would have been glad to be slaves. Not in the context Slavery is used today though.

- Now the verse from Deuteronomy I see nothing wrong in that verse either. For it is teaching how you treat a slave once he has worked and is free, how to help him. Again Slavery back then had a different meaning.
3) Now, regarding sending people to hell, God doesn’t send you to Hell, you chose to go there by your disobedience. Like if you live in America and don’t pay your taxes. Is the tax man then wrong for throwing you in jail? You think if you save 10 starving African kids this year and don’t pay your taxes, you can go tell the taxman I’m a good person so don’t penalize me? Well, God is like the taxman, and he wants something from you, you either pay your dues or you don’t it’s up to you, just be assure however, that there are consequences to you disobedience.


1.) It doesn't matter. Slavery, whether the slave is happy or not, is wrong. Ownership of another human is wrong if that human has no say in whether he wasnt to be slave. People aren't property. If a person wanted a worker, they could hire someone and they should have the right to leave whenever they want. The fact that you can't see that is really shocking. 

But if you can't see the immoralty in that verse, perhaps you will in this verse:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.


So, if a virgin woman is raped by a man, then that man has permission from God to marry her for the rest of his life. Let me repeat that...the man that raped the woman is not punished. No...he is ordered to marry the woman...forever.  

If you cannot see the immorality in that...then I...I just don't know what to say.

 

3.) Bad analogy. If you live in America and don't want to pay taxes, guess what? You can leave America! You aren't forced to live under America's rule if you don't want to.

Now...look at God. If you live under God's land (which apparently is everything that exists), then you are forced to follow his rules...or you burn in eternity. You don't have the option of going to an alternative land. Not too mention that it was God that created  you. You did not choose to be born. God created you! You don't even have the option of not living. You are forced to live. You are forced to live under his rule. And if you don't, then you are tortured forever and ever and ever. I refuse to believe any God is that despicable.



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richardhutnik on 15 September 2012
DaRev said:
pezus said:
^That's all well and good, but when people go around saying others are going to hell because they don't believe in the same thing they do, that's when I start seeing a problem.


So if you, my friend, are heading towards danger should me being your friend not warn you of that danger? Jesus wanted me, us, Christians, to warn you. You can chose, however, not to accept that warning, but as good Christians we are compelled to warn you. So, please don't be angry about this.

And I can question the basis of your compulsion and leading with Hell on a number of grounds:

* Show one case where you see in Acts, or examples of Christians preaching in the Bible, where hell avoidance is what was preached.  You can see Jesus teach on this, but as a basis of it being preached by Christians?  In short, I challenge you to show the Biblical way to evangelize, and show what it is, and show it is about avoiding hell and not making disciples, or preaching about the resurrection.

* You see a place where Jesus told the Disciples to not preach and wait for the Holy Spirit.

* Jesus said not to throw pearls to pigs or good food to dogs.

Ok, go through the Bible and show where you personally are supposed to go about warning people of Hell.  Yes, YOU personally, not that the teaching is in there, or it is part of it, but that is what you are to preach.  And heck, if you are supposed to personally.



IIIIITHE1IIIII on 15 September 2012
DaRev said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

ha ha, my 3 year old son prays every night and we always take him to church, but I doubt that makes him a Christian, even if he would do that until he is 16 or even 60, and he is a good kid, like many kids. But that doesn't make one a christian or make one fit to debate christianity or religion. Lawyers, teachers, doctors, musician, writers, even GAMERS spend many years at their craft before they can properly debate things - christianity or religion is the same. Go read your bible.

 

What first post? About WiiU being a christian for 16 years?


This post:

IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
DaRev said:
 So because Jesus did something more miraculous than Lincoln, that gives you reason not to believe that he is real? That's why he is God, he was suppose to do things no man could ever do, so that you would believe he was God. Now you say because he did miracles that's why you don't belive in him or that he existed? ha ha, you're really messed up. I suppose then if he didn't do miracles you would believe in him? lol good one.

 

Let me ask you this: Why on Earth would anyone believe that Jesus actually performed these miracles? All we have is a book which was obviously written by one or more people (and not even by Jesus himself), and the writer(s) obviously wanted to carry out a message. So why would we trust anything that is claimed in this book? The writer was the one who claimed that Jesus could perform miracles, not Jesus. You can't trust this source just like you can't trust someone who claims that he saw a ghost.

Like APM said: You would need extraordinary evidence to prove that Jesus could perform miracles. And at this point believing that Jesus can perform miracles is, in my opinion, not too different from believing that Harry Potter is performing magic at Hogwarts as we speak. Or at least the evidence perfectly equal.

 

Don't get me wrong though: Jesus did, according to the book, carry out an extremely valuable message which I wish more people would follow (namely that you should be a better example rather than fighting fire with fire), and I salute anyone, including my religious family, who lives by that message.

 

On another note: Have you ever heard of Russel's teapot? It is never up to non-believers to disprove supernatural events, beings, actions or whatever. The burden of proof is on you.

Edit: Looks like some words went outside the post-window. Hopefully it's still readable. Otherwise you will need to find the original.



DaRev on 15 September 2012
Runa216 said:
DaRev said:
Your point:

1) thats doesn't deny the FACT that there  is a devine father and he had rules in place long before you,...came of age.

2) correct, to an extent. Because god's teaching are both physical and spiritual at the same time. So some can be explained scientifically, like man being created from the Earth, but others like the existance of a Hell, well science might have some trouble sorting that out, for that, my friend, you'll need spiritual discernment.

You are living in a fairly tale right now, if you believe you can look to science for every answer you need, science, which contradicts itself every moment it 'discovers' something new. Oh, and in case you missed the point, Christians believe in science to, so we are complete. People like you on the other hand lack something, non-physical, and thus are incomplete.

1 - There is no evidence or PROOOF that your claim is correct...therefore it is not a fact.  there's hear-say, b ut nothing more. I can SAY I saw a ghost or a gryphon, but that doesnt make it true, just like the bible isn't necesarily true just becuase some people claim it is. 

2 - see #1

1) Eye witness accounts recorded in manucripts, historical accounts, teachings, and even fairy tales, all collected into the BIble are facts. Go into any civil law court room today and see how witness statements as collected in the Bible, not the actual person, are used to determin matters of FACT, yes, FACT. 

2) see #1 



Nintendo Network ID: DaRevren

I love My Wii U, and the potential it brings to gaming.

richardhutnik on 15 September 2012
SecondWar said:
DaRev said:

Your point:

1) thats doesn't deny the FACT that there  is a devine father and he had rules in place long before you,...came of age.

2) correct, to an extent. Because god's teaching are both physical and spiritual at the same time. So some can be explained scientifically, like man being created from the Earth, but others like the existance of a Hell, well science might have some trouble sorting that out, for that, my friend, you'll need spiritual discernment.

You are living in a fairly tale right now, if you believe you can look to science for every answer you need, science, which contradicts itself every moment it 'discovers' something new. Oh, and in case you missed the point, Christians believe in science to, so we are complete. People like you on the other hand lack something, non-physical, and thus are incomplete.

Fact? Just because you believe something to be true doesn't make a fact. I think this clip sums up my point nicely (skip to past 20 seconds).

Why would I listen to anything coming out of Sheldon's mouth relating to things that involve any constructive regarding the human condition?

As this spot points out:



richardhutnik on 15 September 2012
Jay520 said:
Player1x3 said:

It's dumb to seek evidence for irrational beliefs such as theism and atheism


atheism is not a belief. it's the opposite.

Actually agnosticism is the opposite of a belief.  It states that the person forms no opinion, or has no knowledge one way or the other regarding God.    Hard agnosticism projects this on everything and says not only does the person who is agnostic doesn't know, but humans can't never know for sure.

Atheism is a negative belief.  It is a belief there is no God.  Hard atheism says not only does the person who is an atheist believe there is not a God, but there is no God at all.

Now, this doesn't mean that atheism is a belief one can build anything around.  A negative belief calls on a need to find other things to believe in positively.