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Forums - General - Jesus Christ of Nazareth loves you!

I'm calling it now, this guy isn't serious. Can't be.

On a side note:

Jay520 said:

So, if a virgin woman is raped by a man, then that man has permission from God to marry her for the rest of his life. Let me repeat that...the man that raped the woman is not punished. No...he is ordered to marry the woman...forever.  

I agree with most of what you're saying but really, how is that not punishment?



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ninetailschris said:

1."History can be re-written and/or fabricated, but present can't. Thus, when it comes to the miracles that Jesus supposedly performed, there scientifically is no reason to believe that he actually did perform these miracles. No one can perform miracles nowadays, so why would anyone have been able to do it thousands of years ago? It is physically impossible now, and physics were most likely the very same back then as they are now. For that reason, the Bible, as a source, cannot be trusted. The logic in this source is missing. And claims of a supernatural being cannot be compared to claims of a ruler (Alexander the great). Several discoveries indicates that he indeed did exist and conquered several countries, just like how several discoveries indicates that Jesus indeed did exist. No discoveries other than a book made by unknown authors indicate that Jesus could perform miracles though."

"History can be re-written and/or fabricated, but present can't"

Very invailded argument because we have historians that can tell the difference between someone adding in something and not. There people who take college for 5 years to do this stuff. Your argument is based on ignorance COMPETELY. Do you even know how these people do research? Tell me. Then I will tell you how you have no clue what your talking about because I know how they do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP15Pc2Lljc

"Thus, when it comes to the miracles that Jesus supposedly performed, there scientifically is no reason to believe that he actually did perform these miracles."

This is circular argument. If you're supernatural and you do something beyond science then you are likey false? This is incoherent . If your supernatural you are EXPECTED to do supernatural things. If Jesus didn't do supernatural things than he would just be a human thus how would he taken seriously? I

"No one can perform miracles nowadays, so why would anyone have been able to do it thousands of years ago? "

I'm not going to lie I lol'd at this comment. Because how dumb that came out. Jesus is suppose to be the last in the line so OF COURSE you wouldn't expect other supernatural people walking around. Even during the OT days you didn't see anyone having the supernatural powers only those that were in direct contact with God (Broker).  But again if people were walking around doing supernatural things that would discredit Christianity.

"It is physically impossible now, and physics were most likely the very same back then as they are now. "

Aren't you assuming naturalism against the supernatural? Natural laws ONLY apply you natural things. You can't put natural laws against a supernatural being because by very defintion they are beyond the natural world. This is like you living in a 2d world and saying that there can't be shape in 3d because this world is only in 2d and all laws apply to everything here being in 2d. It's a question-begging assumption that goes against the very foundation of what you are arguing against.

"For that reason, the Bible, as a source, cannot be trusted. "

Nope. Just lot's of question begging.

"The logic in this source is missing."

The thing missing here is yours D:.

"And claims of a supernatural being cannot be compared to claims of a ruler (Alexander the great)."

Has less sources and than Jesus/Bible and even has supernatural stuff in it like witchcraft.

You clearly are haven't done any research it's being obvious.

"Several discoveries indicates that he indeed did exist and conquered several countries, just like how several discoveries indicates that Jesus indeed did exist."

Why don't you tell me about all these sources? Name and tell how old are these documents in comaparision to the date of the events? I'm going to enjoy this because I know the answer.

" No discoveries other than a book made by unknown authors indicate that Jesus could perform miracles though.""

Man you got me there it's not like there are secular sources.....~cough~ Josephus  ~cough~.

For anyone questioning Jesus existence and want to know of other selcular sources on Jesus/miracles.

http://www.tektonics.org/jesusexisthub.html

2."See one thing is true, that if Santa Claus wasn't real, he would have already been disproven many generations ago. But he is real, so you're stuck with him."

Oh man ... you got him. Man we have historians/scholars Christians/Atheist they all agree that Jesus existed and it's not even arguable about it. But man Santa Claus that disproves everything because everyone has historial evidence/ Historial proof from Scholars/Historians. 

Darn you really should how intelligent you really are. Santa Claus WOW didn't exact a 24 grown man to make comeback like that which is fully support by everyone. Here I thought it was 100 percent confirmed with anyone over 14 that Santa didn't exist but apparently no one has discovered this! WOW!  You destroyed his argument and didn't just give a very anti-intelligence response! Hundreds of documents and Secular sources have nothing on that! Darn got a 100 on history didn't you?

3."You can't disprove ghosts either. Nor can you disprove that in a parallell universe there is a being who created God. This is not about the lack of evidence against Jesus as a miracle-performing man, but the lack of evidence supporting these miracles."

First sentence: Yes, you can. Is there only personal experiences? Check. Any documents people having a conversation or interaction with this Ghost with more than 5? Is there constant history of these "ghost". Are these TRUE interactions with this Ghost? Like not some blur or something. Is there historial evidence? 

Second sentence: What the heck does Parallell universe have to do with God? Your just saying something over the top to amke something else seem over the top. No one is claiming something that is  that extreme for God or Jesus. Theis is an obvious red-herring 

Third Sentence: Really seems like the the lack of logic and research on your part.

 


Dear Lord...


Let me ask you this: If we found some old scriptures made by unknown authors which claimed that vampires indeed did exist hundreds or maybe thousands of years ago, would you believe in these scriptures?

Using your twisted definition, those scriptures would contain indesputable facts.



ninetailschris said:
Jay520 said:
DaRev said:

Nope, truth is truth, there cannot be more than one truth, truth either agrees with truth or its not true or all the truth. You don't have to study every religion, pal, just study the true one. If you think the true one is, e.g. Islam, then go study that, which I'm sure if you did, WITH AN OPEN MIND you would run into some untruths. Christianity on the other is truth, study that WITH AN OPEN MIND, and I'm sure if you did you you will only find truth. Truth it is better to love your fellow man, truth!

Now, because Christianity is truth, there is no need study anything else, because you have already found the truth, so why look for it somewhere else? E.g if H2O = Water or E = mc2, why you going to look for that truth again, when you already found it?



Okay, a few questions.

1.) There are untrooths with Islam? How Do you know? Have you studied Islam to know if its true or not?

2.) If you have studied Islam, then what are the untrooths of Islam?

3.) I have studied Christianity with an open-mind and I think its false. Therefore, can I safely say Christianity is false?

4.) What if I study another religion with an open-mind and find that religion is true? How would I be able to know for sure?


1. The problem with Islam unlike The bIble is that it has things that directly go against  historal truths on certain events. For example, in islam it says Jesus didn't die on cross. This is historial proven to not be true by scholars and historians. A man of name Jesus Christ of Nazareth was in fact killed on cross from reports. we even know who was the person that killed him on the cross EXACTLY.

2. The problems is that Islam Scholars themselves will admit that they haven't done any real research into the origins of the Islam. PLUS it known that Islam leader Muhammad got his information on Jesus YEARS LATER from actual events. Muhammad also got his source from third hand person basically hear-say. 

To be fair, similar arguments can be made against Christianity. The bible as it currently is was collated in 325AD. There were many more texts that refered to Jesus but these were disregarded by a group of fallible humans with their own bias 325 years after he died. This is not even taking into account the material that may have been lost in translation. For instance, the virgin birth may not be as miraculous as orginally thought as the Hebrew word translated to "virgin" could also be used to mean "young woman".

The 4 gospels in the bible are also estimated to have been written 60-100 years after Jesus' death meaning a big gap in first hand knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_reliability_of_the_Acts_of_the_Apostles#Historicity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_reliability_of_the_Gospels

Every Religious text has inconsistencies with historical and archaelogical consensus. Singling out Islam when the bible contains inconsistencies is just plain wrong.



Jay520 said:
Player1x3 said:

It's dumb to seek evidence for irrational beliefs such as theism and atheism


atheism is not a belief. it's the opposite.

I disagree. ANY view or perspective (be it belief or disbelief) on the mater is irrational if not supported by reason, knowledge or proof. To hold any absolute view on anything without reason, knowledge or evidence IS irrational. To say with complete confidence that there is no higher power in or outside the universe IS irrational because

1) there's absolutely no reason for us to believe so

2) our knowledge on the matter is still highly limited to conclude anything based on KNOWLEDGE (not belief or disbelief)

3) we can't prove anything because ^^

Exact same thing goes for the opposite side. The only rational view on this mater is the agnostic one.



Slavery was fine? Dafuq.



Disconnect and self destruct, one bullet a time.

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NotStan said:
Slavery was fine? Dafuq.


(If my memory serves me right):  If we go by the Bible, raping the women of countries that you have occupied was fine.

 

Edit - I was kind of right:

10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her,you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife.

Deuteronomy 21:10-13



pezus said:

Against societal norms? 


Uhm, yeah? I'm not sure what you'd take an issue with here. This specific part isn't even condescending, just a description. I mean atheism is against religion and most of society is religious, right?



 

“These are my principles; if you don’t like them, I have others.” – Groucho Marx

Player1x3 said:

I disagree. ANY view or perspective (be it belief or disbelief) on the mater is irrational if not supported by reason, knowledge or proof. To hold any absolute view on anything without reason, knowledge or evidence IS irrational. To say with complete confidence that there is no higher power in or outside the universe IS irrational because

1) there's absolutely no reason for us to believe so

2) our knowledge on the matter is still highly limited to conclude anything based on KNOWLEDGE (not belief or disbelief)

3) we can't prove anything because ^^

Exact same thing goes for the opposite side. The only rational view on this mater is the agnostic one.

All atheists do not hold an absolute view on anything. Atheism does not necessarily say anything with complete confidence. Atheists in general don't have anythnig to prove since they aren't making any claims, in the positive or the negative. A lack of belief in the positive does not always mean a belief in the negative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism 
http://atheists.org/content/about-atheism 
http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism#Atheism_and_why_do_atheists_state_they_disbelieve.3F 
http://www.investigatingatheism.info/definition.html 

The atheism you're referring to is a specific category of atheist. The broadest definition of atheism encompasses all people who don't believe in God. There is a group within that group which asserts that there is no God; this what you're referring to. These people are called strong atheists or hard atheists.

- - - - 

Agnosticism has nothing to with belief. Agnosticism has to do with knowledge. If you're an agnostic, then you assert that you don't know if God exists. If you're a gnostic, then you assert do know if god exists. It has nothing to do with belief. Atheism and theism deals with belief. There's a difference between knowledge and belief.

If you're a theist, then you believe that God exists. If you're an atheist, then you don't beleive God exist. Agnostism and Atheism aren't mutually exclusive. Nor are agnostism and theism. As an atheist, you can be either agnostic or gnostic. Similarly, as a theist, you can be either agnostic or gnostic. You can be one of four categories:

Gnostic Theist: You believe in God, and you know that there's a God.
Agnostic Theist: You believe in God, but you don't know if there's a God.
Agnostic Atheist:  You don't believe in God, but you don't know if there's a God. 
Gnostic Atheist: You don't believe in God, and you know that there is no God.



Immortal said:
pezus said:

Against societal norms? 


Uhm, yeah? I'm not sure what you'd take an issue with here. This specific part isn't even condescending, just a description. I mean atheism is against religion and most of society is religious, right?

Depends on the society.

I'd argue that most of society whilet being a member of a religion, aren't actually religious.

Also, some religious beliefs end up opposing societal norms. The gay marriage issue in the US is an example.



Farmageddon said:

I'm calling it now, this guy isn't serious. Can't be.

On a side note:

Jay520 said:

So, if a virgin woman is raped by a man, then that man has permission from God to marry her for the rest of his life. Let me repeat that...the man that raped the woman is not punished. No...he is ordered to marry the woman...forever.  

I agree with most of what you're saying but really, how is that not punishment?


Man: Hey God, can I go rape a woman?
God: Sure, but...you have to be with her for the rest of your life.
Man: Wait, so if I marry her, I get permission, No ORDERS, to marry this woman?
God: Yup
Man: Yes! Hmmm, let me pick a woman to rape... 

Not too mention the lifetime of pain for the woman who would have to marry the man who raped her.