The reason I brought up third parties is because Microsoft would rather just rake in the money they make from third parties and not risk a new IP. Sony is the only console brand with this mentality. New experiences.

Uncharted: 2.6 M

Uncharted 2: 5.6 M

Uncharted 3: 4.5 M

God of War 3: 4.3 M

Littlebigplanet: 4.96 M

Littlebigplanet 2:  2.61 M

Motorstorm: 3.74 M

InFamous: 2.23 M

Gran Turismo prologue: 5.34 M

Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of Patriots: 5.66 M

Gran Turismo 5: 7.79 M

Resistance: 4.7 M

Resistance 2: 2.33 M

Killzone 2: 2.86 M

Killzone 4: 2.31 M

Yeah...the community doesn't support them. You're so right.

I know. In fact, halfing the die size rarely results in being able to deliver twice the power with the same tech.

As for the chips. The Wii U gpu will be based on an entirely different architecture than the Xenos or RSX. That's why I keep saying it's perfectly capable to deliver 3 or 4 times the power of the 360 or PS3 gpu. Just as the 5570 is perfectly capable of outperforming the 2600 XT even if it had the same maufacturing proces.

Using much more transistors and much more power if both were made on the same node. That's is the difference. 5570 use 627 million transistors. 2600 XT use 390 millions. That's why.

Just wanted to point out the PS3 CECH-30xxB model uses ~76 watts.  Current X360's are closer to your figure at 88 watts.

I'd also like to point out that an HD 2600 XT provides ~3.8 Gflops per watt while an HD 5570 provides ~13.3 Gflops per watt.

The current model X360 may provide ~4.8 Gflops per watt.

So you REALLY believe there's no difference in technology. Than arguing with you is pointless.

Of course there is a difference in technology, you can improve your graphics pipeline in the years between Xenos (2005) and RV770 (2008), but in your comparison between 2600 and 5570 there is also a huge difference in fabrication nodes and transistor count. You can't say "look, this graphics card is much faster than this other one and has similar power consumption", of course it is going to be a much improved graphics card, it's a three generations later card, with 60% more transistors, made in a much improved fabrication node. It would say horrible things of the AMD and TSMC engineers if the chip isn't faster.

Now compare two graphics chip made on the same process: 5870 and 6970. One has 2.15 billion transistors, the other 2.89 billions. 6970 has an improved technology on the VLIW4 design instead of VLIW5 design (ATI said their ALU usage was 3.8 on the VLIW5 design, so most of the time the 5th ALU was unused) and it consumed much more power, 188W versus 250W. 6970 should be much faster than 5870, right? No, 6970 is faster, but most of the time on the 10-15% ballpark. This is a valid comparison, two chips made on the same node, not your 65 vs 40nm comparison. It doesn't matter that PS3 and 360 were designed with 90nm on mind, they had huge power consumptions then, but they have shrunk their chips now, and power consumption is still high. WiiU can't have a huge power consumption with the size it has, and you know it.

This time WiiU won't have that advantage, as the chips of the three consoles will be made on the same node, so the transistor count and/or frequency won't be much higher than X360 and PS3 chips if they want to have power consumption controlled.

Even if the Wii U's GPU was based on the RV740 (Radeon HD 4770) rather than the rumoured RV770 (Radeon HD4850/HD4870) the Wii U's GPU would have almost three times as many transistors as the XBox 360 GPU or the PS3 GPU  ( 826 million for RV740 vs. 337 million for the Xenos and 300.2 million for the RSX).

I guess these pointless argugments up because I got tired of the anti-Wii U crowd completely dismissing or ignoring facts and details while begging the same question that were already answered by those same facts and details.

The logic that I see sometimes, or lack thereof, is astounding across the internet.

Its clear that there devs no what they are doing and the one who had problem "don't". At least SEGA still has some good devs left.

All this tech talk is worth it ?

Can we actually reverse engineer the Wii U to get the specific details ?

Like, do we even know the exact 3DS specs ?

I think the rumors talk about the R700 family, not of a concrete chip. I think RV730 is a more reasonable alternative, or a very underclocked RV740. 4770, made on 40nm, had a TDP of 80W