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Forums - Nintendo - Wii U specs are surprising, says Sonic developer, specifically the GPU and memory

S.T.A.G.E. said:
phenom08 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


The reason I brought up third parties is because Microsoft would rather just rake in the money they make from third parties and not risk a new IP. Sony is the only console brand with this mentality. New experiences.

Uncharted: 2.6 M

Uncharted 2: 5.6 M

Uncharted 3: 4.5 M

God of War 3: 4.3 M

Littlebigplanet: 4.96 M

Littlebigplanet 2:  2.61 M

Motorstorm: 3.74 M

InFamous: 2.23 M

Gran Turismo prologue: 5.34 M

Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of Patriots: 5.66 M

Gran Turismo 5: 7.79 M

Resistance: 4.7 M

Resistance 2: 2.33 M

Killzone 2: 2.86 M

Killzone 4: 2.31 M

Yeah...the community doesn't support them. You're so right.

This weak list proves what?


Bias with a capital B. This is not an argument so I'll just end this now.


While I would disagree with the claim that the games are weak, I do notice that a large portion of the games were heavily bundled, and I think it demonstrates that Sony is willing to support quality new franchises even if they do not perform well on their own. With Resistance, Uncharted, Little Big Planet and Motorstorm all being given away millions of times Sony was able to build a fan base for these games that otherwise wouldn't have existed.



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HappySqurriel said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
phenom08 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


The reason I brought up third parties is because Microsoft would rather just rake in the money they make from third parties and not risk a new IP. Sony is the only console brand with this mentality. New experiences.

Uncharted: 2.6 M

Uncharted 2: 5.6 M

Uncharted 3: 4.5 M

God of War 3: 4.3 M

Littlebigplanet: 4.96 M

Littlebigplanet 2:  2.61 M

Motorstorm: 3.74 M

InFamous: 2.23 M

Gran Turismo prologue: 5.34 M

Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of Patriots: 5.66 M

Gran Turismo 5: 7.79 M

Resistance: 4.7 M

Resistance 2: 2.33 M

Killzone 2: 2.86 M

Killzone 4: 2.31 M

Yeah...the community doesn't support them. You're so right.

This weak list proves what?


Bias with a capital B. This is not an argument so I'll just end this now.


While I would disagree with the claim that the games are weak, I do notice that a large portion of the games were heavily bundled, and I think it demonstrates that Sony is willing to support quality new franchises even if they do not perform well on their own. With Resistance, Uncharted, Little Big Planet and Motorstorm all being given away millions of times Sony was able to build a fan base for these games that otherwise wouldn't have existed.

Most of those bundles didnt happen at launch. If they were bundled at all they were not bundled heavily. If they were bundled heavily the sales would've been way higher like Kinect sports, Wii Sports and others whose numbers match the total of consoles or peripherals sold.



How can a new console with 4x the RAM ( wii u) be only on par on just above a console seven years older ( x360 )?

RAM isn't the defining factor for a consoles power.  But I agree, it's very unlikely the Wii U will only be just above the 360 and PS3. If we go by the latest rumors the Wii U gpu is gonna be an Evergreen based gpu. Just looking at the architecture alone means the Wii U gpu is gonna be far more efficient than the Xenos or RSX. But if Nintendo wants to keep the Wii U cheap and profitable then it could well be just above the 360 and PS3.

Is Nintendo releasing very outdated technology in regards to the chips in the wii u? Are we going to see a wii situation all over again when Sony and MS eventually launch their beasts, with developers dropping the wii u regardless of the promises they make now, claiming it to be underpowered?

I doubt it. The Wii was based on the same architecture as the GC, only with a smaller fabrication process and a 50% clock speed increase. The Wii U hardware is gonna be based on recently released hardware. Also, the XBox 8 and PS4 won't be expensive consoles so I doubt the hardware of that console will be much faster than the Wii U. 1.5 to 2 times the Wii U? Possibly. More than that would mean they will have to either release their consoles with a much higher price point or make a considerable loss per unit sold. I don't see that happen.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
HappySqurriel said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
phenom08 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


The reason I brought up third parties is because Microsoft would rather just rake in the money they make from third parties and not risk a new IP. Sony is the only console brand with this mentality. New experiences.

Uncharted: 2.6 M

Uncharted 2: 5.6 M

Uncharted 3: 4.5 M

God of War 3: 4.3 M

Littlebigplanet: 4.96 M

Littlebigplanet 2:  2.61 M

Motorstorm: 3.74 M

InFamous: 2.23 M

Gran Turismo prologue: 5.34 M

Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of Patriots: 5.66 M

Gran Turismo 5: 7.79 M

Resistance: 4.7 M

Resistance 2: 2.33 M

Killzone 2: 2.86 M

Killzone 4: 2.31 M

Yeah...the community doesn't support them. You're so right.

This weak list proves what?


Bias with a capital B. This is not an argument so I'll just end this now.


While I would disagree with the claim that the games are weak, I do notice that a large portion of the games were heavily bundled, and I think it demonstrates that Sony is willing to support quality new franchises even if they do not perform well on their own. With Resistance, Uncharted, Little Big Planet and Motorstorm all being given away millions of times Sony was able to build a fan base for these games that otherwise wouldn't have existed.

Most of those bundles didnt happen at launch. If they were bundled at all they were not bundled heavily. If they were bundled heavily the sales would've been way higher like Kinect sports, Wii Sports and others whose numbers match the total of consoles or peripherals sold.

Kinect sports isn't bundled with kinect, kinect adventures is, this is more proof of you not knowing what you are talking about. You claim you pay attention and yet make silly mistakes like this. Have you realized Sports Champion is bundled with Move and yet still flopped. Why are Sony fans so stuck on, if something is bundled its going to sell. The game still has to be appealing. Thats the point of what i have been saying this entire time. Sony cant make an appealing game. Their highest selling game hasnt even cracked 8 million, which is also theyre only franchise that can hit 6 million.



S.T.A.G.E. said:

Most of those bundles didnt happen at launch. If they were bundled at all they were not bundled heavily. If they were bundled heavily the sales would've been way higher like Kinect sports, Wii Sports and others whose numbers match the total of consoles or peripherals sold.


Sony generally has multiple bundles being sold at the same time, many of which are promotions that are only available in certain stores, but most of these bundles include 1 Sony published game. Right now there are official Infamous and an Uncharted 3 bundles that are being sold. On top of that, Sony also sells controller+game bundles (sometimes multiple-game bundles like Resistance 1&2 + controller) for $10 more than a controller; and almost all of the bundled games are games from your list.

This isn't a "bad" thing that Sony is doing, it is actually something all the manufacturers should be doing, but you have to realize that many of these games were bought because they were a good deal not because the gamers desperately wanted to play them.

Personally, I'm debating buying a PS3 to hook American Netflix up to my TV, and if I bought it I would likely buy a 2 game bundle and then pick up one of the controller bundles; but I wouldn't be buying any particular game, and it would be difficult to say that I was all that interested in the IP.



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HappySqurriel said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Most of those bundles didnt happen at launch. If they were bundled at all they were not bundled heavily. If they were bundled heavily the sales would've been way higher like Kinect sports, Wii Sports and others whose numbers match the total of consoles or peripherals sold.


Sony generally has multiple bundles being sold at the same time, many of which are promotions that are only available in certain stores, but most of these bundles include 1 Sony published game. Right now there are official Infamous and an Uncharted 3 bundles that are being sold. On top of that, Sony also sells controller+game bundles (sometimes multiple-game bundles like Resistance 1&2 + controller) for $10 more than a controller; and almost all of the bundled games are games from your list.

This isn't a "bad" thing that Sony is doing, it is actually something all the manufacturers should be doing, but you have to realize that many of these games were bought because they were a good deal not because the gamers desperately wanted to play them.

Personally, I'm debating buying a PS3 to hook American Netflix up to my TV, and if I bought it I would likely buy a 2 game bundle and then pick up one of the controller bundles; but I wouldn't be buying any particular game, and it would be difficult to say that I was all that interested in the IP.

HappySqurriel he knows all of this, he just ignores it and claims every high selling game Ninty makes gets its sells from bundles.



phenom08 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
HappySqurriel said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
phenom08 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


The reason I brought up third parties is because Microsoft would rather just rake in the money they make from third parties and not risk a new IP. Sony is the only console brand with this mentality. New experiences.

Uncharted: 2.6 M

Uncharted 2: 5.6 M

Uncharted 3: 4.5 M

God of War 3: 4.3 M

Littlebigplanet: 4.96 M

Littlebigplanet 2:  2.61 M

Motorstorm: 3.74 M

InFamous: 2.23 M

Gran Turismo prologue: 5.34 M

Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of Patriots: 5.66 M

Gran Turismo 5: 7.79 M

Resistance: 4.7 M

Resistance 2: 2.33 M

Killzone 2: 2.86 M

Killzone 4: 2.31 M

Yeah...the community doesn't support them. You're so right.

This weak list proves what?


Bias with a capital B. This is not an argument so I'll just end this now.


While I would disagree with the claim that the games are weak, I do notice that a large portion of the games were heavily bundled, and I think it demonstrates that Sony is willing to support quality new franchises even if they do not perform well on their own. With Resistance, Uncharted, Little Big Planet and Motorstorm all being given away millions of times Sony was able to build a fan base for these games that otherwise wouldn't have existed.

Most of those bundles didnt happen at launch. If they were bundled at all they were not bundled heavily. If they were bundled heavily the sales would've been way higher like Kinect sports, Wii Sports and others whose numbers match the total of consoles or peripherals sold.

Kinect sports isn't bundled with kinect, kinect adventures is, this is more proof of you not knowing what you are talking about. You claim you pay attention and yet make silly mistakes like this. Have you realized Sports Champion is bundled with Move and yet still flopped. Why are Sony fans so stuck on, if something is bundled its going to sell. The game still has to be appealing. Thats the point of what i have been saying this entire time. Sony cant make an appealing game. Their highest selling game hasnt even cracked 8 million, which is also theyre only franchise that can hit 6 million.

I have a point, you just don't want to see it. As I said you have a major bias and I wont fuel it. Just because I mixed up Kinect Sports and Kinect adventures bundle sales doesn't mean I don't know what I am talking about. If you didnt understand my point you wouldn't have responded with the correct game which was bundled with the Kinect to begin with. And your reasoning as to why Sony isn't hitting large numbers is because? My guess is because Sony themselves are out of touch with casuals and their marketing was never great to begin with. Again...this argument is over since a sensible answer cannot be achieved from you. Its obvious you have a bias against Sony. 



HappySqurriel said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Most of those bundles didnt happen at launch. If they were bundled at all they were not bundled heavily. If they were bundled heavily the sales would've been way higher like Kinect sports, Wii Sports and others whose numbers match the total of consoles or peripherals sold.


Sony generally has multiple bundles being sold at the same time, many of which are promotions that are only available in certain stores, but most of these bundles include 1 Sony published game. Right now there are official Infamous and an Uncharted 3 bundles that are being sold. On top of that, Sony also sells controller+game bundles (sometimes multiple-game bundles like Resistance 1&2 + controller) for $10 more than a controller; and almost all of the bundled games are games from your list.

This isn't a "bad" thing that Sony is doing, it is actually something all the manufacturers should be doing, but you have to realize that many of these games were bought because they were a good deal not because the gamers desperately wanted to play them.

Personally, I'm debating buying a PS3 to hook American Netflix up to my TV, and if I bought it I would likely buy a 2 game bundle and then pick up one of the controller bundles; but I wouldn't be buying any particular game, and it would be difficult to say that I was all that interested in the IP.


Bundles aren't generally always about the title (even though established titles often are a draw). When my mother bought me the Donkey Kong bundle when I was younger it's not because she knew who Donkey Kong was, it's because its there and she didnt need to think about what game to buy me. Thats why Motorstorm sold 4 million copies in the beinning. Sony bundled a lot of their new IP's but it was much later than expected. The IP is essentially just an icing on the cake to the consumer but to the publisher its about making their titles known. After the first Mario /Duck Hunt bundle, Mario became a household name. Today a Halo, Mario or GT5 bundle is a huge thing, but of course the more casual experiences will win out in the end because of proper marketing. Even after having over 150 million consoles sold Sonys sales have always been spread out more amongst numerous games rather than focused on a select few. If you look at Sonys sales last gen and this gen it serves as the answer that their titles value is more sporadic. The timing for most of Sonys exclusives are usually between first and second quarter which is pretty much retarded.



Viper1 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

As I wrote, exclusives should have no problems, rather devs used to Wii's 90-100MB total RAM should feel like in Heaven (so we should expect wonders from those that already did them with far less RAM). I should add some things: graphics should be OK, GPU is more powerful and feature-rich, so just reserving 0.5GB to graphics should make them noticeably better than current gen. And about system RAM and multiplats, those originally developed on Wii U or systems with even less RAM should be fine too, and even games developed for PCs with 2GB RAM should be fine, as those 2GB take into account that Windows can easily eat 1GB. So the only problems could arise on games with huge levels and large numbers of interactive objects if originally developed on systems with more main RAM. About PC games ports, troubles could start for those with 3GB or more MINIMUM RAM requirements. So we talk about quite a narrow subset of all the possible games, as such PC games would have the PC as their main platform anyway, while for games developed on consoles, Wii U, being released first could be often the original platform of multiplats, while in other cases, devs could probably take into account WiiU limits to maximize their game audience. And for graphics, no problem at all again, as engines are scalable widely enough up and down, graphics RAM size difference between WiiU and competitors will be a lot smaller in percentage than the one between Wii and HD twins, not to mention that 1080p will be the target res of the vast majority of TVs next gen, higher res will be niche for years, so it will be at most optional for games, if considered at all.
So yes, small RAM could surely create some problems, requiring additional work for porting some multiplats, but in a very limited number of cases.

Part of the reason I made my statement is because too few of us are considering the advances in features like Texture Streaming and Sparse Voxel Octree.   Texture Streaming greatly reduces the need for RAM to store lots of textures locally.  They get dumped onto a faster medium like a hard drive (a flash based scratch pad is even better and the Wii U has 8 GB of flash memory), are decompressed and them streamed into the scene as needed.  SVO is an Level Of Detail system that generates not just textures but geometry in real time based on distance from view.

Yes, and this makes a lot of sense, as even with huge video RAM, large worlds could have more textures overall than what can be loaded at a time. Anyhow, I'm not a graphics whore, 0.5GB video RAM is fine for me, I was a lot more worried for main RAM, as it could affect gameplay (dynamic loading can almost do miracles in this case too, but sometimes it isn't enough, particularly if resources and/or dev time are scarce), but 1GB on platforms with lean OS' like consoles should be fine in most cases too. Then there are wizards like those at CDProjekt RED that can squeeze a game like The Witcher 2 in a 512MB total RAM console, and well, for them it looks like 1.5GB total RAM should be vast and comfortable like a royal palace.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Alby_da_Wolf said:
Viper1 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

As I wrote, exclusives should have no problems, rather devs used to Wii's 90-100MB total RAM should feel like in Heaven (so we should expect wonders from those that already did them with far less RAM). I should add some things: graphics should be OK, GPU is more powerful and feature-rich, so just reserving 0.5GB to graphics should make them noticeably better than current gen. And about system RAM and multiplats, those originally developed on Wii U or systems with even less RAM should be fine too, and even games developed for PCs with 2GB RAM should be fine, as those 2GB take into account that Windows can easily eat 1GB. So the only problems could arise on games with huge levels and large numbers of interactive objects if originally developed on systems with more main RAM. About PC games ports, troubles could start for those with 3GB or more MINIMUM RAM requirements. So we talk about quite a narrow subset of all the possible games, as such PC games would have the PC as their main platform anyway, while for games developed on consoles, Wii U, being released first could be often the original platform of multiplats, while in other cases, devs could probably take into account WiiU limits to maximize their game audience. And for graphics, no problem at all again, as engines are scalable widely enough up and down, graphics RAM size difference between WiiU and competitors will be a lot smaller in percentage than the one between Wii and HD twins, not to mention that 1080p will be the target res of the vast majority of TVs next gen, higher res will be niche for years, so it will be at most optional for games, if considered at all.
So yes, small RAM could surely create some problems, requiring additional work for porting some multiplats, but in a very limited number of cases.

Part of the reason I made my statement is because too few of us are considering the advances in features like Texture Streaming and Sparse Voxel Octree.   Texture Streaming greatly reduces the need for RAM to store lots of textures locally.  They get dumped onto a faster medium like a hard drive (a flash based scratch pad is even better and the Wii U has 8 GB of flash memory), are decompressed and them streamed into the scene as needed.  SVO is an Level Of Detail system that generates not just textures but geometry in real time based on distance from view.

Yes, and this makes a lot of sense, as even with huge video RAM, large worlds could have more textures overall than what can be loaded at a time. Anyhow, I'm not a graphics whore, 0.5GB video RAM is fine for me, I was a lot more worried for main RAM, as it could affect gameplay (dynamic loading can almost do miracles in this case too, but sometimes it isn't enough, particularly if resources and/or dev time are scarce), but 1GB on platforms with lean OS' like consoles should be fine in most cases too. Then there are wizards like those at CDProjekt RED that can squeeze a game like The Witcher 2 in a 512MB total RAM console, and well, for them it looks like 1.5GB total RAM should be vast and comfortable like a royal palace.

Agreed.

Too many of us are equating their home computer RAM to console RAM and thinking all factors are equal and a new console in this day and age should come with no less than 6 GB because that'w what the average PC comes with now.

You could almost analogize the situation with a sports car's top speed.   It may be able to hit 200 MPH (6 GB) but you'll never take it there.  Not even close.   If, according to local traffic laws, 75 MPH (1.5 GB) is all you are legaly allowed to travel....then 200 MPH (6 GB) is irrelevant for practical usage.



The rEVOLution is not being televised