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Forums - Nintendo - Wii U specs are surprising, says Sonic developer, specifically the GPU and memory

Baron on 29 August 2012
Now compare two graphics chip made on the same process: 5870 and 6970.

Why? The Wii U gpu is a lot newer than the R500 based Xenos. Also, the 6970's only a slightly improved 5870. Not an entirely new architecture.

If you want to compare different architectures than compare the 3870 with the 4850. Same manufacturing process of 55nm and almost the same TDP (106 for 3870, 110 for 4850). DIfference? About 1.5 to 2 times the 3870. And that's just one step up on the architectural ladder.



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Kynes on 29 August 2012
lilbroex said:
I guess these pointless argugments up because I got tired of the anti-Wii U crowd completely dismissing or ignoring facts and details while begging the same question that were already answered by those same facts and details.

The logic that I see sometimes, or lack thereof, is astounding across the internet.

Its clear that there devs no what they are doing and the one who had problem "don't". At least SEGA still has some good devs left.


I'm not a WiiU hater, nothing further than that. I think some people here have very unreasonable expectations based on the manufacturing technology of the console, and the size of the WiiU. If explaining why I have lower expectations than some of you guys makes me a hater, then I can only say that some of you behave like a zealot.

WiiU will be more powerful than this gen consoles? Absolutely. Will it be much more powerful? I don't think so, I think a reasonable ballpark is 40% to 80% more performance, with more detailed textures due to much more RAM, but some people here behave like it will be three or more times more powerful, and that's a deception waiting to happen.



Kynes on 29 August 2012
Baron said:
Now compare two graphics chip made on the same process: 5870 and 6970.

Why? The Wii U gpu is a lot newer than the R500 based Xenos. Also, the 6970's only a slightly improved 5870. Not an entirely new architecture.

If you want to compare different architectures than compare the 3870 with the 4850. Same manufacturing process of 55nm and almost the same TDP (106 for 3870, 110 for 4850). DIfference? About 1.5 to 2 times the 3870. And that's just one step up on the architectural ladder.


The 3870 had a huge bug in the AA resolve, as they had to use the shader cores to do it, instead of fixed function hardware.



lilbroex on 29 August 2012

Nobody is saying you have to have low or high exceptions. Nobody is questioning it. At least I'm not.

I just do not understand why I keep seeing the exact same questions asked that have been answered so many time. It makes no sense.



Baron on 29 August 2012
Kynes said:
Baron said:
Now compare two graphics chip made on the same process: 5870 and 6970.

Why? The Wii U gpu is a lot newer than the R500 based Xenos. Also, the 6970's only a slightly improved 5870. Not an entirely new architecture.

If you want to compare different architectures than compare the 3870 with the 4850. Same manufacturing process of 55nm and almost the same TDP (106 for 3870, 110 for 4850). DIfference? About 1.5 to 2 times the 3870. And that's just one step up on the architectural ladder.


The 3870 had a huge bug in the AA resolve, as they had to use the shader cores to do it, instead of fixed function hardware.

Even without AA the 4850 smashes it. Your just looking for excuses and quick escapes now.



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HappySqurriel on 29 August 2012
Kynes said:
HappySqurriel said:
...

Even if the Wii U's GPU was based on the RV740 (Radeon HD 4770) rather than the rumoured RV770 (Radeon HD4850/HD4870) the Wii U's GPU would have almost three times as many transistors as the XBox 360 GPU or the PS3 GPU  ( 826 million for RV740 vs. 337 million for the Xenos and 300.2 million for the RSX).


I think the rumors talk about the R700 family, not of a concrete chip. I think RV730 is a more reasonable alternative, or a very underclocked RV740. 4770, made on 40nm, had a TDP of 80W

But you're looking at it as "Nintendo had to take a stock GPU and run it at the same clock rate as when it was released for the PC" ...

We don't know what was really done, Nintendo could have taken the RV790 XT modified it, swiched it to the 40nm manufacturing process, and under clocked it to 650MHz resulting in a GPU that has 75% of the performance of its PC counterpart while consuming 20% as much energy.



phenom08 on 29 August 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
phenom08 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
phenom08 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
 


PS3 exclusives are far from overhyped. If you pay attention you know just as well as any that Sonys achilles heel is their marketing. Xbox 360 exclusives are the most hyped as far as commercialization in the west. Be my guest if you can show me a game that has had more air time than Halo and Gears this gen. Super Mario sold extremely well because it and Duck Hunt were bundled with the original SNES and continued to be bundled with the consoles. Eventually it stuck and could sell regardless of bundles or not. I dont know if they did but when Uncharted launched I never saw special edition PS3's with Uncharted, InFamous 2, GOW or anything like it during the launch of these games. Usually its a little after when they get their initial sales. Sonys exclusives are quality, you don't have to like them, but they are KNOWN for making quality titles that are highly rated and endorse high amounts of creativity. The only place Sony has fallen behind is in multiplayer experience. if you want to compete against Xbox exclusives which majorly depend on online gameplay Sony's exclusives must do the same on par with them. The only company STILL continuing to make great core and indy exclusives into 2014 without stopping is Sony. You don't have to like them...just deal with the existence of those truths.

How bout actually prove Sony's achilles heel is marketing lol. Excuses is all you have. But i love pointing out the flaws in your argument so here we go. First off you say Halo and Gears have alot of air time, which doesnt make a difference lol, you make it sound as if games need alot of air time to sell super well. Gears and Halo do have alot of air time (which you cant prove either) but Mario and Pokemon still outsell them so what exactly is Sony's excuse. Whats so different about Sony's marketing now compared to the past lol. Not much, its just you cant get over the fact that nobody wants their games. Its not a lack of marketing its a lack of appeal. Do some research, Sony bundles way more different games then Ninty, its just Sonys tend to fail. The rest of your post is just full of how much i love Sony so no need to even respond. "Sonys exclusives are quality, you don't have to like them, but they are KNOWN for making quality titles that are highly rated and endorse high amounts of creativity.""The only company STILL continuing to make great core and indy exclusives into 2014 without stopping is Sony. You don't have to like them...just deal with the existence of those truths."  Wow this is why you cant come up with good responses. You love Sony so much you dont want to see the truth of how they cant make a decent selling game to save their lives, just ask the Vita and its dire situation.


Your bias blinds you. Sony cant make a decent selling game? Of course they can. Most people don't even know about InFamous, Mod Nation Racers, Starhawk and the like. Most PS3 exclusives sell over an extended period of time. All the games you've ignored have sold more than decent which are over 1-7 million in copies including third parties which on both the 360 and PS3 are the highest. The smartest bundle Sony has ever used was in the creation of the Motorstorm bundle during the PS3 launch. New IP, new game....easiest way to endear people to your product. The problem is they should've started with Uncharted

What do third parties have to do with our discussion? Wow please stop just grasping for straws and actually tell me what a decent selling game is. Sony has one game that can reach 7 million why even include that one franchise, its called an outliner. 99% of Sony's games cant even crack 4 million lol. How about this, if Sony's games sell decent then Cod, GTA, Mario, Pokemon, etc must be godly to you. That was a horrible bundle, nobody wants Motorstorm like the rest of Sony's exclusives. Sony should bundle games people want, not just bundle just to bundle. You can expose a turd all you want, at the end of the day it will still sell like a turd.


The reason I brought up third parties is because Microsoft would rather just rake in the money they make from third parties and not risk a new IP. Sony is the only console brand with this mentality. New experiences.

Uncharted: 2.6 M

Uncharted 2: 5.6 M

Uncharted 3: 4.5 M

God of War 3: 4.3 M

Littlebigplanet: 4.96 M

Littlebigplanet 2:  2.61 M

Motorstorm: 3.74 M

InFamous: 2.23 M

Gran Turismo prologue: 5.34 M

Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of Patriots: 5.66 M

Gran Turismo 5: 7.79 M

Resistance: 4.7 M

Resistance 2: 2.33 M

Killzone 2: 2.86 M

Killzone 4: 2.31 M

Yeah...the community doesn't support them. You're so right.

This weak list proves what?



oniyide on 29 August 2012
Kynes said:
lilbroex said:
I guess these pointless argugments up because I got tired of the anti-Wii U crowd completely dismissing or ignoring facts and details while begging the same question that were already answered by those same facts and details.

The logic that I see sometimes, or lack thereof, is astounding across the internet.

Its clear that there devs no what they are doing and the one who had problem "don't". At least SEGA still has some good devs left.


I'm not a WiiU hater, nothing further than that. I think some people here have very unreasonable expectations based on the manufacturing technology of the console, and the size of the WiiU. If explaining why I have lower expectations than some of you guys makes me a hater, then I can only say that some of you behave like a zealot.

WiiU will be more powerful than this gen consoles? Absolutely. Will it be much more powerful? I don't think so, I think a reasonable ballpark is 40% to 80% more performance, with more detailed textures due to much more RAM, but some people here behave like it will be three or more times more powerful, and that's a deception waiting to happen.

This 



S.T.A.G.E. on 30 August 2012
phenom08 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
phenom08 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
phenom08 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
 


PS3 exclusives are far from overhyped. If you pay attention you know just as well as any that Sonys achilles heel is their marketing. Xbox 360 exclusives are the most hyped as far as commercialization in the west. Be my guest if you can show me a game that has had more air time than Halo and Gears this gen. Super Mario sold extremely well because it and Duck Hunt were bundled with the original SNES and continued to be bundled with the consoles. Eventually it stuck and could sell regardless of bundles or not. I dont know if they did but when Uncharted launched I never saw special edition PS3's with Uncharted, InFamous 2, GOW or anything like it during the launch of these games. Usually its a little after when they get their initial sales. Sonys exclusives are quality, you don't have to like them, but they are KNOWN for making quality titles that are highly rated and endorse high amounts of creativity. The only place Sony has fallen behind is in multiplayer experience. if you want to compete against Xbox exclusives which majorly depend on online gameplay Sony's exclusives must do the same on par with them. The only company STILL continuing to make great core and indy exclusives into 2014 without stopping is Sony. You don't have to like them...just deal with the existence of those truths.

How bout actually prove Sony's achilles heel is marketing lol. Excuses is all you have. But i love pointing out the flaws in your argument so here we go. First off you say Halo and Gears have alot of air time, which doesnt make a difference lol, you make it sound as if games need alot of air time to sell super well. Gears and Halo do have alot of air time (which you cant prove either) but Mario and Pokemon still outsell them so what exactly is Sony's excuse. Whats so different about Sony's marketing now compared to the past lol. Not much, its just you cant get over the fact that nobody wants their games. Its not a lack of marketing its a lack of appeal. Do some research, Sony bundles way more different games then Ninty, its just Sonys tend to fail. The rest of your post is just full of how much i love Sony so no need to even respond. "Sonys exclusives are quality, you don't have to like them, but they are KNOWN for making quality titles that are highly rated and endorse high amounts of creativity.""The only company STILL continuing to make great core and indy exclusives into 2014 without stopping is Sony. You don't have to like them...just deal with the existence of those truths."  Wow this is why you cant come up with good responses. You love Sony so much you dont want to see the truth of how they cant make a decent selling game to save their lives, just ask the Vita and its dire situation.


Your bias blinds you. Sony cant make a decent selling game? Of course they can. Most people don't even know about InFamous, Mod Nation Racers, Starhawk and the like. Most PS3 exclusives sell over an extended period of time. All the games you've ignored have sold more than decent which are over 1-7 million in copies including third parties which on both the 360 and PS3 are the highest. The smartest bundle Sony has ever used was in the creation of the Motorstorm bundle during the PS3 launch. New IP, new game....easiest way to endear people to your product. The problem is they should've started with Uncharted

What do third parties have to do with our discussion? Wow please stop just grasping for straws and actually tell me what a decent selling game is. Sony has one game that can reach 7 million why even include that one franchise, its called an outliner. 99% of Sony's games cant even crack 4 million lol. How about this, if Sony's games sell decent then Cod, GTA, Mario, Pokemon, etc must be godly to you. That was a horrible bundle, nobody wants Motorstorm like the rest of Sony's exclusives. Sony should bundle games people want, not just bundle just to bundle. You can expose a turd all you want, at the end of the day it will still sell like a turd.


The reason I brought up third parties is because Microsoft would rather just rake in the money they make from third parties and not risk a new IP. Sony is the only console brand with this mentality. New experiences.

Uncharted: 2.6 M

Uncharted 2: 5.6 M

Uncharted 3: 4.5 M

God of War 3: 4.3 M

Littlebigplanet: 4.96 M

Littlebigplanet 2:  2.61 M

Motorstorm: 3.74 M

InFamous: 2.23 M

Gran Turismo prologue: 5.34 M

Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of Patriots: 5.66 M

Gran Turismo 5: 7.79 M

Resistance: 4.7 M

Resistance 2: 2.33 M

Killzone 2: 2.86 M

Killzone 4: 2.31 M

Yeah...the community doesn't support them. You're so right.

This weak list proves what?


Bias with a capital B. This is not an argument so I'll just end this now.



justinian on 30 August 2012
Kynes said:
lilbroex said:
I guess these pointless argugments up because I got tired of the anti-Wii U crowd completely dismissing or ignoring facts and details while begging the same question that were already answered by those same facts and details.

The logic that I see sometimes, or lack thereof, is astounding across the internet.

Its clear that there devs no what they are doing and the one who had problem "don't". At least SEGA still has some good devs left.


I'm not a WiiU hater, nothing further than that. I think some people here have very unreasonable expectations based on the manufacturing technology of the console, and the size of the WiiU. If explaining why I have lower expectations than some of you guys makes me a hater, then I can only say that some of you behave like a zealot.

WiiU will be more powerful than this gen consoles? Absolutely. Will it be much more powerful? I don't think so, I think a reasonable ballpark is 40% to 80% more performance, with more detailed textures due to much more RAM, but some people here behave like it will be three or more times more powerful, and that's a deception waiting to happen.

I totally agree with you. I too hope that it is suprisingly powerful but I don't expect it to be.

But the questions that won't go away are:

How can a new console with 4x the RAM ( wii u) be only on par on just above a console seven years older ( x360 )? This is based on the supposed rapid growth of processor technology. Prices are also relatively steady. What I paid for a top end gaming card in 2006 is about what I paid for one in 2012 (based on tom's hardware list of top cards both times).

Is Nintendo releasing very outdated technology in regards to the chips in the wii u? Are we going to see a wii situation all over again when Sony and MS eventually launch their beasts, with developers dropping the wii u regardless of the promises they make now, claiming it to be underpowered?

Don't get me wrong, I'll be supporting Nintendo all the way but I can't help but think that launching an underpowered console again is going to repeat the same problems, again. This is of course assuming that the new consoles from the other two will be all conquering.

Developers want to show off they work on consoles that make it work and look best. I don't blame them for this.

I am hoping for a more powerful console than many predict.