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Forums - Politics Discussion - What do you think of wikileaks?

Kantor said:
RedInker said:

Assange is a prick and should stop cowering in an embassy and go to Sweden to face trial. Innocent people dont seek asylum in foreign embassies. We dont need this site anyway as all documents will eventually get made public under the freedom of information act. Goverments do need to keep some secrets in the same way business' do.

The hundreds of people who seek asylum in Europe and America from the middle east aren't innocent?

He didn't sexually assault anybody. The crimes with which he is charged are not a part of any sensible definition of sexual assault.

Actually, if you read the actual sweedish police reports they are.

The police reports state that he violently tore her clothes and held her down and penetrated her as she tried to escape and said she didn't want to have sex.

If that isn't a sensible definition of sexual assault i'd like to ask what the fuck is a sensible definition of sexual assault.

The "in sweeden rape isn't really rape" comments were nothing but a blatant sexist propagana smokescreen to blame the victims and get public support on his side because he knew the police records couldn't be released unless leaked.


And then when said police reports WERE leaked and did show that... he threw a fit, cause you know.  He's all about not having transparency when it involves rape I guess.



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Here's an interesting 4 part documentary on wikileakd


http://www.ps3youtube.com/v/wikirebels-the-documentary-1-4-NhTfOL9_HBE



 

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Oh, also mischaracterized is the "Not wearing a condom in Sweden is illegal and is rape."

It's actually "Not wearing a condom when you told a woman you were wearing one is illegal... and considered molestation."

You know. Which it should be... since outside pregnancy there are also all kinds of diseases to worry about.

In technical terms such a case is part of many that would be referred to as "Rape by deception" but no jurisdiction treats it as rape... and I believe isn't even a crime in Sweden in general... and just in that case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception



I support wikileaks. No way we'll get government transparency. The only means we have of obtaining documents and the goings on of government behind the scenes are Freedom of Information Act requests - which take forever.

I'm all for leaks, especially when it exposes the wrongdoing of those in charge.



Kantor said:

He didn't sexually assault anybody. The crimes with which he is charged are not a part of any sensible definition of sexual assault. But that's not the point. Sweden and Britain would not be this obsessive about prosecuting a low level sexual assault. They would not threaten to storm an embassy. On top of that, Sweden refuses to guarantee that no further extradition will take place. Sweden has not refused an American extradition request for 12 years.

You're probably right about the rest of it, but what Assange is accused of doing is pretty serious. If he really tried to deceive the woman into thinking he was wearing a condom when he wasn't or intentionally tore it because he was so desperate to shoot it off inside of her even though she'd told him not to, that is a rather sensible definition of sexual assault, actually.



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Wiileaks is a great thing and helped the democracy and transparency.

Here in germany it lead to the demission of the former minister of defense Franz Josef Jung. The situation was, that some hundred civilists were killed in a bombing of german road-tankers, that were stuck in a riverbed. Our government denied, that it was as bad as it seemed. Wikileaks later opened the report from the soldiers, that was the main information available to the minister. The people from neighboring villages were stealing the fuel. The germans ordered some american bombers. The bomber-pilots asked, if they should scare away the people first to reduce the number of victims, but the german wanted the instant bombing. The minister Jung knowed that, but in the public he denied that something was going wrong. Without Wikileaks we may have believed him.

In Iceland the TV wanted to make a report on the people that were responsble for the financial crash. The banks got a judge to forbid that. The TV instead showed the address of Wikileaks, where this information was published.

It's a shame for the USA, how Bradley Manning is treated. That's more suited to a totalitarian country, than a democracy.

Julian Assange is a shady guy, but his creation is very useful and important for the world.

And yes, the name is silly, but OpenLeaks may have the better name, but as it never leaked anything I go with the working project, even it has a silly name.



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Kantor said:
RedInker said:

Assange is a prick and should stop cowering in an embassy and go to Sweden to face trial. Innocent people dont seek asylum in foreign embassies. We dont need this site anyway as all documents will eventually get made public under the freedom of information act. Goverments do need to keep some secrets in the same way business' do.

The hundreds of people who seek asylum in Europe and America from the middle east aren't innocent?

He didn't sexually assault anybody. The crimes with which he is charged are not a part of any sensible definition of sexual assault. But that's not the point. Sweden and Britain would not be this obsessive about prosecuting a low level sexual assault. They would not threaten to storm an embassy. On top of that, Sweden refuses to guarantee that no further extradition will take place. Sweden has not refused an American extradition request for 12 years.

And no, not all government documents will become public. The trend in western society is very much away from government accountability and towards a powerful, clandestine and authoritarian government that monitors your Internet use and throws you in jail for four months on end without trial, on charges of "terrorism".

Couldn't have said this better myself...



HappySqurriel said:
100% against wikileaks ...

You don't promote a free an open society by leaking information, which ultimately will require the government to be far less open; you promote a free and open society by demanding transparancy from your government.


So I guess that makes freedom of the press close to obsolete...



Support Wikileaks, but I'm against Assange.

Also, I'm totally against the Ecuadorian embassy sheltering him. Gosh, stop trying to get negative attention from the stronger countries for once. >_>



RedInker said:

Assange is a prick and should stop cowering in an embassy and go to Sweden to face trial. Innocent people dont seek asylum in foreign embassies. We dont need this site anyway as all documents will eventually get made public under the freedom of information act. Goverments do need to keep some secrets in the same way business' do.

What about Chen Guangcheng? Is he innocent?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/china-reels-as-blind-dissident-flees-house-arrest-and-seeks-refuge-with-the-us/story-e6frg6so-1226341915863

And let's be clear here. Assange has yet to be charged by Sweden. They wish to question him against sexual allegations. Those are two completely different things. In fact:

- Assange's lawyers offered Swedish authorities to question him in London about the alleged rape. They refused.

- Ecuadrian officials stated that they would not grant Assange asylum if Sweden cold assure them that they would not extradite Assange to the US. Sweden could not make that assurance.

- British officials seem rather intent to storm a a foreign embassy, all in the name of sending some guy to Sweden for QUESTIONING (once again, not charges).

 

So yeah, anyone who has been keeping up with this story can see that this is not just some simple "he's running away" thing. Foreign countries are deeply interested in getting him to Sweden for mere questioning.