It isn't, because the person having the miscarriage has nothing to desire, the trauma is so aweful. It's my understanding that if a miscarriage did ensue, it would in fact be the will of that person naturally acting. As such, a form of self-destruction occurs I would believe. Desireable has a positive connotation. As such the person likely wills the miscarriage, but it is not desireable as such. Nothing about the situation is positive.

Nobody can judge situations like these, and I'll veer off a little here khan, but for anyone to advocate for abortion in general for exceptional and dire cases as these is purely running off agenda, imho.

So many abortions happen as a result of irresponsible sex, and wether it's abortion or single-motherhood, the end result generally is undesirable in cases where it could be avoided.

To add insult to injury, most of these cases happen in social contexts where people are ill educated and have weak social structure. This may sound prejudiced, but it's just how I see it, unadulterated.

If anything, it's a prompter that we should provide broader sex education, to encourage the idea that if you're going to have sex, you do so responsibly.

The funny thing i note about the conservative platform (which is an aside to this particular conversation) is that conservatives will fight like hell to make sure the baby comes to term, and then refuse to allow the government to do spit to help that baby after it's out.

And that's where I lean liberal, personally, despite my conservative values. If I were american I would probably vote democrat, despite my conservative values.

It is important for yout o answer the question that I put to you. Why did you bring that case up? Were you trying to defend the idea that he has some sense in saying that a woman's body has ways of "shutting it down"?

I can only imagine you were, especially given that you danced around answering that question.

I'm going to go slowly because I believe you might not understand terminology.

Relationship here refers to correlation, meaning that as stresses in the four categories listed increase "pre conception mental/preconception physical/postconception mental/postconception physical", so does miscarriage. It further says in your own link "it is not understood exactly how a woman's stress could cause a misconception".

Correlation does not equal causation. It simply points out that one factor exists concurrently with the other. It even says in plain English "Stress has long been suspected...but while a relationship has been noted, researchers didn't know exactly how a woman's stress could cause miscarriage."

If that's not enough I'll point out that your study does not specifically correlate rape of any kind to miscarriage. The results are specifically broad: physical or emotional trauma both post conception and pre conception. It is phrased this way because it needs to cast as wide a net as possible for the correlation to be statistically significant. Trauma in this sense literally and specifically refers to all the various types of anguish present. Accidental injury, assault, falling down stairs, depression, organ failure, domestic abuse, job loss...the list goes on and on. To try and select a specific instance and say that it applies goes directly against the study results. As someone who has done studies, each variable is tested individually and then together as well. Had relationships existed for specific instances, they would have been mentioned, and explained, yet they themselves admit they cannot. Saying "trauma leads to miscarriage" is like saying "walls are hard". It is in the benefit of the researcher to be as specific in correlation as possible, so that something new can be "discovered", like for example, rape leads to miscarriage. It is niether my own nor the study's responsibility to tell you everything that is not specifically unique. You are the one using a specific example.

If you are not saying this, then I apologize for misconstruing your argument, but I would then have to assume that you simply and specifically meant to express the extremely superficial comment that "trauma is correlated to miscarriage". I would then have to remind you that this in no way helps whatever it is the rep meant, and is even less necessary to link a study to it. 

Look Happy, my point simply is that you cannot prove that a woman can shut down her body in response to rape. Everyone is different and can handle levels of stress differently. Everyone has different tolerance levels, and coping emchanisms. Even desire plays a part. Because there is such variation in how people can handle stress, you will never be able to sufficiently prove that women can shut themselves down, and rightly so. This is exactly why your study doesn't say that it can. Stress is PRESENT among miscarriages, but is it not also the threat of miscarriage or first time pregnancy that can also cause the stress? I would point out that the example is self-fulfilling. Knowing that stress can miscarry can raise stress and miscarry. Doubly so, perhaps a body that KNOWS a miscarriage is happening (sub-conscious) can create cortisol. You can likely have both stress affecting miscarriage and miscarriage affecting stress.

I don't know what else I can say. Perhaps I am a complete retard and cannot explain myself or the evidence properly. Nothing in that study proves your point. It simply says that events that CAN SOMETIMES cause stress, can cause miscarriage. Miscarriage happens all the time, even without stress.

There is probably only one possible thing that he's saying that makes sense. In "legitimate rape" where a female is very violently assaulted and beaten, miscarriage is likely to occur. And it's not related to stress, it's related to internal injuries. However, the majority of rape is more along the lines of drugging, or threat of violence, or peer pressure/blackmailing, wherein violence almost never occurs, the liklihood does not increase unless the rape is a more persistent ongoing ritual.

I understand all this. In the very last para, your quote says "how", not "that". I.e. it doesn't say "researchers didn't know exactly that a woman's stress could cause miscarriage.", theyre just unsure of the how, ie the exact workings.

@it being important for me/trying to defend. Yes, I was! I certainly was because it makes sense to me what he says and I suspect people bashed him not because of what he said, but because he stands for a side that is against their political alignments.

I understand this. I used the broad correlation and applied it to a specific instance of trauma to say that rape falls in line with the term trauma used. The study did not specify that the trauma they were referring to was a specific type, so why discard rape as a possibility?

It does, because rape is a type of trauma, and as such it's not inconceiveable to think that it could, as other forms of trauma, lead to miscarriage. The study is not specific, but neither does it eliminate rape as a possibility.

Where did I say I proved anything. I was just saying that his comment wasn't crazy as some would like to portray it... It made sense to me, and I'm not saying it's always true I'm not an idiot. I just wouldn't be surprised if it were true a good deal of the cases. Rape is traumatic, regardless. I don't disagree at all with your stress-awareness stress theory, and I don't see how it affects the point I brought forward to originally.

You're not a complete retard, and nothing proves my point, but it gives evidence for a likelihood which is favorable to the politician's PoV. You just need to see it from my perspective for a moment. I see that what he said makes some sense, and I see people jumping on him simply because of political bias, it's my honest opinion.

@stress/miscarriage. If miscarriage happens even without stress, even more so would it occur with trauma, as this study would indicate, and rape being an obvous and potent form of trauma.

Yeah, that makes sense too because 

1) The trauma is lesser in illegitimate rape and

2) Legitimate rape involves physical abuse and trauma which

  a) can hurt the fetus in certain areas and

  b) causes miscarriage (per the article).

I write all this to show that it's important to not be biased and just see things as they are. I haven't changed my opinion once since the start of stating my PoV, so I was being balanced. I'm hoping more people would do the same honestly, and I'm really not bragging.

Apparently the GOP now wants him to step down. This was one race the GOP was favored to pick a seat up in. As it is now, it isn't as likely, but may happen. It could end up happening that he loses and that enables the Democratic party to control the senate still come next year.

I don't know what else I can possible explain to you happy.

Your study evidences that the two factors exist concurrently, not that one causes the other.
Your study involves ALL forms of trauma, AND no study exists that shows rape trauma is related to miscarriage. Therefore, while rape is certainly a portion of the cases they analyzed regarding trauma, it itself is not capable of being correlated with miscarriage. I feel like this is a metaphysical debate. The evidence doesn't exist specifically, therefore it is not proven.

You think that because the study says stress is correlated to miscarriage then rape is correlated to miscarriage because it is a form of stress. That is, and I can't stress (lol) this enough, a baseless extrapolation that you have decided on using warped logic. I could similarly say that cracked nail paint or "lolguys" cause miscarriage. However, I would be wrong because it is only a portion of women whom would think of such things as being entirely stressful, or unable to cope.

It may sound like mockery, but I'm trying to point out the flaws in simply deciding what causes stress.

Also, I don't know what gives you the idea that people disagree with him for political reasons. It seems like another misunderstanding in the line of logic.

That is, what he just said was reminiscent of 1950s psychology mixed with a heap of social injustice. Women do not have power over their miscarriages, but he's saying so because he wants to deny women who are raped the ability to abort. His goal is to say, "well, a woman who is LEGITIMATELY RAPED, would naturally miscarry, and if not, then they likely were NOT LEGITIMATELY RAPED". Rape is a serious issue happy, and one that this man obviously did not understand.

Nobody disagreed with him because it's political. We disagree because he's wrong. It then becomes a political thing because it's a women's rights issue. None of us say "oh that's women's rights, he's automatically wrong".

that guy sounds like an idiot/fool and definitely not worthy of becoming a Congressman. The quality of Congressman/politicians in America must be very low.

Facts are not what matters.  What matters is to appear genuine and pander to the belief of your target demographic, in sufficient numbers to get elected.  Currently there is ire being raised because it looks like it costs votes.

How is it an unfair position on his views?  At the end of the day it's the decision he wants taken.  I basically boiled away everything else including the reasoning and arguments and then asked the reader to decide for themselves who the decision should be left to.  I mentioned the emotional trauma of the woman because there would be many nameless women out there that would be forced to endure this that this politician won't even know exists.