| theprof00 said:
It is important for yout o answer the question that I put to you. Why did you bring that case up? Were you trying to defend the idea that he has some sense in saying that a woman's body has ways of "shutting it down"? I can only imagine you were, especially given that you danced around answering that question. I'm going to go slowly because I believe you might not understand terminology. Relationship here refers to correlation, meaning that as stresses in the four categories listed increase "pre conception mental/preconception physical/postconception mental/postconception physical", so does miscarriage. It further says in your own link "it is not understood exactly how a woman's stress could cause a misconception". Correlation does not equal causation. It simply points out that one factor exists concurrently with the other. It even says in plain English "Stress has long been suspected...but while a relationship has been noted, researchers didn't know exactly how a woman's stress could cause miscarriage." |
I understand all this. In the very last para, your quote says "how", not "that". I.e. it doesn't say "researchers didn't know exactly that a woman's stress could cause miscarriage.", theyre just unsure of the how, ie the exact workings.
@it being important for me/trying to defend. Yes, I was! I certainly was because it makes sense to me what he says and I suspect people bashed him not because of what he said, but because he stands for a side that is against their political alignments.
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If that's not enough I'll point out that your study does not specifically correlate rape of any kind to miscarriage. The results are specifically broad: physical or emotional trauma both post conception and pre conception. It is phrased this way because it needs to cast as wide a net as possible for the correlation to be statistically significant. Trauma in this sense literally and specifically refers to all the various types of anguish present. Accidental injury, assault, falling down stairs, depression, organ failure, domestic abuse, job loss...the list goes on and on. To try and select a specific instance and say that it applies goes directly against the study results. As someone who has done studies, each variable is tested individually and then together as well. Had relationships existed for specific instances, they would have been mentioned, and explained, yet they themselves admit they cannot. Saying "trauma leads to miscarriage" is like saying "walls are hard". It is in the benefit of the researcher to be as specific in correlation as possible, so that something new can be "discovered", like for example, rape leads to miscarriage. It is niether my own nor the study's responsibility to tell you everything that is not specifically unique. You are the one using a specific example. |
I understand this. I used the broad correlation and applied it to a specific instance of trauma to say that rape falls in line with the term trauma used. The study did not specify that the trauma they were referring to was a specific type, so why discard rape as a possibility?
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If you are not saying this, then I apologize for misconstruing your argument, but I would then have to assume that you simply and specifically meant to express the extremely superficial comment that "trauma is correlated to miscarriage". I would then have to remind you that this in no way helps whatever it is the rep meant, and is even less necessary to link a study to it. |
It does, because rape is a type of trauma, and as such it's not inconceiveable to think that it could, as other forms of trauma, lead to miscarriage. The study is not specific, but neither does it eliminate rape as a possibility.
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Look Happy, my point simply is that you cannot prove that a woman can shut down her body in response to rape. Everyone is different and can handle levels of stress differently. Everyone has different tolerance levels, and coping emchanisms. Even desire plays a part. Because there is such variation in how people can handle stress, you will never be able to sufficiently prove that women can shut themselves down, and rightly so. This is exactly why your study doesn't say that it can. Stress is PRESENT among miscarriages, but is it not also the threat of miscarriage or first time pregnancy that can also cause the stress? I would point out that the example is self-fulfilling. Knowing that stress can miscarry can raise stress and miscarry. Doubly so, perhaps a body that KNOWS a miscarriage is happening (sub-conscious) can create cortisol. You can likely have both stress affecting miscarriage and miscarriage affecting stress. |
Where did I say I proved anything. I was just saying that his comment wasn't crazy as some would like to portray it... It made sense to me, and I'm not saying it's always true I'm not an idiot. I just wouldn't be surprised if it were true a good deal of the cases. Rape is traumatic, regardless. I don't disagree at all with your stress-awareness stress theory, and I don't see how it affects the point I brought forward to originally.
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I don't know what else I can say. Perhaps I am a complete retard and cannot explain myself or the evidence properly. Nothing in that study proves your point. It simply says that events that CAN SOMETIMES cause stress, can cause miscarriage. Miscarriage happens all the time, even without stress. |
You're not a complete retard, and nothing proves my point, but it gives evidence for a likelihood which is favorable to the politician's PoV. You just need to see it from my perspective for a moment. I see that what he said makes some sense, and I see people jumping on him simply because of political bias, it's my honest opinion.
@stress/miscarriage. If miscarriage happens even without stress, even more so would it occur with trauma, as this study would indicate, and rape being an obvous and potent form of trauma.
| There is probably only one possible thing that he's saying that makes sense. In "legitimate rape" where a female is very violently assaulted and beaten, miscarriage is likely to occur. And it's not related to stress, it's related to internal injuries. However, the majority of rape is more along the lines of drugging, or threat of violence, or peer pressure/blackmailing, wherein violence almost never occurs, the liklihood does not increase unless the rape is a more persistent ongoing ritual. |
Yeah, that makes sense too because
1) The trauma is lesser in illegitimate rape and
2) Legitimate rape involves physical abuse and trauma which
a) can hurt the fetus in certain areas and
b) causes miscarriage (per the article).
I write all this to show that it's important to not be biased and just see things as they are. I haven't changed my opinion once since the start of stating my PoV, so I was being balanced. I'm hoping more people would do the same honestly, and I'm really not bragging.
