By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - ‘You’ve made your choice’: Man shares dad’s brutal letter disowning him for being gay

happydolphin said:
Pimp3k said:
Player1x3 said:


Atheists have killed for irreligious purposes and have persecuted people for following a religion. They didn't do it in the name of atheism, but they did it in the name atheist favourable ideology that persecutes religion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union

And not this was only aimed at christians, which had it easiest of all persecuted groups. Islam and Judism were almost non existent


Since your profile states that you are from Yugoslavia, then I'm really hopeful that you understand that nationalism that happened in 90s was VERY much fueled and supported by both Catholic and Orthodox Churches. How many Serbs were killed in name "Bog i Hrvati" and how many Croats in name "Bog čuva Srbe"?

When will people realize that it's not a matter of numbers, but a matter of, "does it happen or does it not?". As such, if it ever happened even so small a case of people being murdered in the name of non-religion, it would be hypocritical of people to blame evil on religion for other cases, as greater in volume these may be.

Not really complicated guys.

Regardless, if history serves us right there was more death in the name of non-religion than in the name of religion, the holocaust and red russia being the two biggest ones I believe.

That's not even the important part. The part that people should take into into consideration when they pass judgment is ''whether or not the ideology in whose name people committed the crimes actually supports those actions''  Because anyone can kill in name of anything to make anything look bad. Its much easier to kill and die in the name of christianity, than to live by it's principles.  Someone doing something bad in the name of religion doesn't make the religion itself look bad unless it actually supports that deed.

If an atheist ever succeeds in grasping this concept i will personally deep fry my balls tho :/



Around the Network
Pimp3k said:
happydolphin said:

Jay, think bigger picture (bolded above). Apart from technological advancement (which is great), why move forward if there is no end destination. That's basically my question.

If you just move to the next step, you're like an ant. As a human, what's the purpose of moving forward with no end destination in sight?

When you're hiking, and it gets tough, do you tell yourself "oh, it's all good, we'll never get to the end so at least we're going forward". No, rather you say "a few more steps and we're there".

I'm just asking, what is the motivation in a hypothetical case (assuming that's the reality, as it is one of two options really) where there really is no end to the chain of questions.

And you answered it for yourself. We definitely won't reach to top of the mountain in our life, but we'll add few more steps forward the hill for future generations.

Again, the question was specifically directed towards the bigger picture and the quest for answers (see underlined). With no final answer, is the quest legitimate?

This isn't a question I like dodged, since it's an important question to me.



"Regardless, if history serves us right there was more death in the name of non-religion than in the name of religion, the holocaust and red russia being the two biggest ones I believe."

Um, what?  Are you now saying the Nazi Holocaust was not in the name of religion?

 Cause, that doesn’t make any since to me.  Cause Christian Hitler would beg to differ.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

happydolphin said:
Jay520 said:

It would....but I don't think humans would even be able to comprehend such a thing even if it were true. I know I wouldn't. I would probably always say "I don't know" rather than "there is no answer"... because how could you even confirm such a thing? How could you ever confirm that there is No answer? It's not possible to be confirmed. There are an infinite number of ways to try to find an answer to a question. So, even if a question was unanswerable, we humans would never know because we would spend forever trying to find an nonexistent answer.

- - -

For that reason, I think it's always better to take the "There is an answer, but I don't know" route rather than the "There is no answer" route.

Because if you take the second route, there are two possibilities. 1.) You are correct, and there is no answer, or 2.) You are incorrect and you just missed an answer that could have potentially allow for great advancement.

However, if you take the first route, there are two possibilies. 1.) You are incorrect, and there is no answer. This isn't bad, it's a bit disappointing, but humanity doesn't miss anything at least, or 2.) You are correct, and there is an answer. This is great because you're working your way up to make discovering something potentially great.

In terms of progress the first route is better.

To make the dilemma even easier to comprehend. What if there is always an answer, which leads to a question? As such the first route would still be the best, but it still leads the human no a never-ending quest for answers, even more trolling that to hit a dead-end where there literally is no answer.

This is deep stuff but I think you can understand what I mean. Though pragmatically you will tell yourself "I will only concern myself with the questions I face", in the big picture, what is your direction if in the end it's a pursuit towards, ultimately, nothing (as you will never find the root)?

EDIT: To reiterate, this is a hypothetical scenario, and there just may be an answer to end the tumbling down the rabbit hole, in which case a weak atheist would be vindicated. But it's a specific hope.

You two have been having a pretty interesting debate here, I thought I might put in my two cents.

Most atheists would at least claim to follow science or the scientific method; we're always trying to better our knowledge and to be honest, I think most scientists accept that we'll never know everything the universe has to offer (otherwise we'd be out of a job, lol). It's a long and neverending quest to gain as much knowledge and progress our species as much as possible in our lifetime. The hope is that we lay the foundations for another generation to go on further that understanding.

It's sometimes hard for some deists/religious to accept the method as a lot of the answers are set in stone whereas the scientific method is all about disproving something to build the foundations for a greater understanding. It's a dynamic way of thinking that frequently results in fierce debates until enough data has been gathered for a best case scenario to be reached.

Personally, I want to see as much progress for us as a species as is humanly possible.



Player1x3 said:

1.) Glad we agree natural doesn't always mean normal or acceptable

2.) ...I thought he was using the animals argument to prove homosexuality is ok in a society. Me, while never disagreeing homosexuality is ok, quoted him saying that's not a real argument to support the claim.

3.) I don't know what do you expect from me here.. homosexuality is not a normal sexuality. You can call it natural, but certainly not normal


1.) I am also Glad

2.) Fair enough

3.) No comment



Around the Network
happydolphin said:
Pimp3k said:
happydolphin said:

Jay, think bigger picture (bolded above). Apart from technological advancement (which is great), why move forward if there is no end destination. That's basically my question.

If you just move to the next step, you're like an ant. As a human, what's the purpose of moving forward with no end destination in sight?

When you're hiking, and it gets tough, do you tell yourself "oh, it's all good, we'll never get to the end so at least we're going forward". No, rather you say "a few more steps and we're there".

I'm just asking, what is the motivation in a hypothetical case (assuming that's the reality, as it is one of two options really) where there really is no end to the chain of questions.

And you answered it for yourself. We definitely won't reach to top of the mountain in our life, but we'll add few more steps forward the hill for future generations.

Again, the question was specifically directed towards the bigger picture and the quest for answers. With no final answer, is the quest legitimate.

This isn't a question I like dodged, since it's an important question to me.

You're only assuming that there isn't an end to chain of questions. The simple fact that we are capable of formulating a question shows how far have we really  come. After all Scientific method starts with a question!



happydolphin said:
Pimp3k said:
happydolphin said:

Jay, think bigger picture (bolded above). Apart from technological advancement (which is great), why move forward if there is no end destination. That's basically my question.

If you just move to the next step, you're like an ant. As a human, what's the purpose of moving forward with no end destination in sight?

When you're hiking, and it gets tough, do you tell yourself "oh, it's all good, we'll never get to the end so at least we're going forward". No, rather you say "a few more steps and we're there".

I'm just asking, what is the motivation in a hypothetical case (assuming that's the reality, as it is one of two options really) where there really is no end to the chain of questions.

And you answered it for yourself. We definitely won't reach to top of the mountain in our life, but we'll add few more steps forward the hill for future generations.

Again, the question was specifically directed towards the bigger picture and the quest for answers (see underlined). With no final answer, is the quest legitimate?

This isn't a question I like dodged, since it's an important question to me.

If you look at the results of that quest (e.g. vehicles, elimination of disease, antibiotics, life-saving surgery, biro pens, forensics... video games ) then doesn't that make it a legitimate quest?

If the quest continues to help and improve our lives, then I see no reason why the quest couldn't be considerred legitimate or worthwhile.



Player1x3 said:
Kantor said:
Player1x3 said:
Runa216 said:

Atheism isn't that illogical at all.  While we live in a world, where, yes, religion is a thing and therefore it forces people to consider the possibility of a divine creator, the fact of the matter is that there's absolutely no logic backing up the idea that the world, or at least the universe, was created by a higher power.  Science does plenty to support the theory that there is no god by taking away all the things he supposedly did.  While we're still left with a 'beginning' or 'origin' to explain, making a higher power explain it just opens up more questions, such as "If god created the universe, what created God?"  Beliving that the universe was not created by a higher power is not illogical, it makes perfect sense from a scientific standpoint. 

frankly, your crusade agaisnt atheism is really not winning you any favors. 

And what does your picture prove?  It has nothing to do with our argument.  Basically it says that people only believe what's convenient for them at the time, which really isn't an argument in favor of anything you seem to believe in. 



...its so logical i just came xD

I'm trying to get angry about that image, but I honestly can't. It's just so illogical and circular that it's hilarious.


Then you should go and read Runa's post... you'll piss your pants xD

You miss my point.

I'm not attacking atheism. I'm attacking that ridiculous strawman of a picture.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

happydolphin said:

Jay, think bigger picture (bolded above). Apart from technological advancement (which is great), why move forward if there is no end destination. That's basically my question.

If you just move to the next step, you're like an ant. As a human, what's the purpose of moving forward with no end destination in sight?

When you're hiking, and it gets tough, do you tell yourself "oh, it's all good, we'll never get to the end so at least we're going forward". No, rather you say "a few more steps and we're there".

I'm just asking, what is the motivation in a hypothetical case (assuming that's the reality, as it is one of two options really) where there really is no end to the chain of questions.

I don't think the idea of never-ending questions is an easy one to comprehend. It's pretty abstract, but I'll try.

Perhaps, after answering so many questions, we will realize that the questions will never end, so we stop stressing over finding the answers. So I guess, in a way, that's kind of like finding the end. We could one day discover that we'll never know everything - I think that's decent closure in and of itself.

I honestly don't know. I don't think the brain was programmed to understand concepts like never-ending, infinity, etc.



Player1x3 said:

That's not even the important part. The part that people should take into into consideration when they pass judgment is ''whether or not the ideology in whose name people committed the crimes actually supports those actions''  Because anyone can kill in name of anything to make anything look bad. Its much easier to kill and die in the name of christianity, than to live by it's principles.  Someone doing something bad in the name of religion doesn't make the religion itself look bad unless it actually supports that deed.

If an atheist ever succeeds in grasping this concept i will personally deep fry my balls tho :/

A lot of atheists grasp that concept. The fact is that having an organised religion just adds an extra ideology and excuse that people can make. It further adds an extra method to rally and manipulate people to do things that may even be the complete antithesis of that religion's teachings. Religious belief (as well as political belief) is an incredibly powerful motivator for both good and reprehensible deeds. All organised religions are open to this corruption