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Forums - General Discussion - ‘You’ve made your choice’: Man shares dad’s brutal letter disowning him for being gay

Pimp3k said:
Player1x3 said:


Atheists have killed for irreligious purposes and have persecuted people for following a religion. They didn't do it in the name of atheism, but they did it in the name atheist favourable ideology that persecutes religion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union

And not this was only aimed at christians, which had it easiest of all persecuted groups. Islam and Judism were almost non existent


Since your profile states that you are from Yugoslavia, then I'm really hopeful that you understand that nationalism that happened in 90s was VERY much fueled and supported by both Catholic and Orthodox Churches. How many Serbs were killed in name "Bog i Hrvati" and how many Croats in name "Bog čuva Srbe"?

When will people realize that it's not a matter of numbers, but a matter of, "does it happen or does it not?". As such, if it ever happened even so small a case of people being murdered in the name of non-religion, it would be hypocritical of people to blame evil on religion for other cases, as greater in volume these may be.

Not really complicated guys.

Regardless, if history serves us right there was more death in the name of non-religion than in the name of religion, the holocaust and red russia being the two biggest ones I believe.



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happydolphin said:

In terms of progress the first route is better.

To make the dilemma even easier to comprehend. What if there is always an answer, which leads to a question? As such the first route would still be the best, but it still leads the human no a never-ending quest for answers, even more trolling that to hit a dead-end where there literally is no answer.

This is deep stuff but I think you can understand what I mean. Though pragmatically you will tell yourself "I will only concern myself with the questions I face", in the big picture, what is your direction if in the end it's a pursuit towards, ultimately, nothing (as you will never find the root)?

EDIT: To reiterate, this is a hypothetical scenario, and there just may be an answer to end the tumbling down the rabbit hole, in which case a weak atheist would be vindicated. But it's a specific hope.

So you are saying that we should accept religious dogmas and stop our pursuit after knowledge?

This is kinda hypocritical to say... Because you are using your PC to post this messages, you use your cell phone on daily basis, you use electricity to power up things, when you are sick you go to physician to get some medicine, you use a car to get there... Everything was made possible by human pursuit after knowledge and understanding. We don't have answers to everything right now, but should we stop because of it? Definitely not. If anything we should work harder. On the bright side at least scientists aren't branded as heretics at burned now.



happydolphin said:

In terms of progress the first route is better.

To make the dilemma even easier to comprehend. What if there is always an answer, which leads to a question? As such the first route would still be the best, but it still leads the human no a never-ending quest for answers, even more trolling that to hit a dead-end where there literally is no answer.

This is deep stuff but I think you can understand what I mean. Though pragmatically you will tell yourself "I will only concern myself with the questions I face", in the big picture, what is your direction if in the end it's a pursuit towards, ultimately, nothing (as you will never find the root)?

EDIT: To reiterate, this is a hypothetical scenario, and there just may be an answer to end the tumbling down the rabbit hole, in which case a weak atheist would be vindicated. But it's a specific hope.


Sorry, I forgot to get this post

If there is always an answer which leads to another question, I still beleive we should keep searching. Because with each question we answer, we become smarter and more knowledgable and we can use that knowledge for good things.



Pimp3k said:
happydolphin said:

In terms of progress the first route is better.

To make the dilemma even easier to comprehend. What if there is always an answer, which leads to a question? As such the first route would still be the best, but it still leads the human no a never-ending quest for answers, even more trolling that to hit a dead-end where there literally is no answer.

This is deep stuff but I think you can understand what I mean. Though pragmatically you will tell yourself "I will only concern myself with the questions I face", in the big picture, what is your direction if in the end it's a pursuit towards, ultimately, nothing (as you will never find the root)?

EDIT: To reiterate, this is a hypothetical scenario, and there just may be an answer to end the tumbling down the rabbit hole, in which case a weak atheist would be vindicated. But it's a specific hope.

So you are saying that we should accept religious dogmas and stop our pursuit after knowledge?

This is kinda hypocritical to say... Because you are using your PC to post this messages, you use your cell phone on daily basis, you use electricity to power up things, when you are sick you go to physician to get some medicine, you use a car to get there... Everything was made possible by human pursuit after knowledge and understanding. We don't have answers to everything right now, but should we stop because of it? Definitely not. If anything we should work harder. On the bright side at least scientists aren't branded as heretics at burned now.

No, that's not at all what I said, and further proves the ignorance and readiness to label (see bold) on the side of certain secularists.

If you have a question, just ask, there is no need to jump to conclusions. What I was asking Jay was a complex question, one that would take you time to understand, but if we go at it slowly you might be able to understand it too. And no, it's not at all what you thought I was trying to say.



Jay520 said:
Player1x3 said:


1) So being born with 1 arm and 3 eyes could also be considered natural ?

2) I never made an argument that homosexuality isn't ok in society. I was just pointing out the fallacy in that guy's logic. 

3.) But very fact that the society made out of homosexuals of one gender would go extinct while the heterosexual one would continue to live tells you that homosexuality isn't normal


1.) You realize that natural has multiple definitions. Natural can be a synonym for innate. So yes, someone born with such a disorder would have an innate, or natural, disorder. I advice you to not use ambigious words to prevent confusion.

Glad we agree natural doesn't always mean normal or acceptable

2.) Let's go back to this post this post

Jay520 said: 
Player1x3 said: 

Mnementh said:

Bolded is debatable. Homosexuality is obviously something natural, as it is observed for many mammals and is far too common to be a mutation or a fuckup in the recombination of genes. So it's probably of some evolutionary benefit amnd very likely our genes hold a usual preference for the other gender but ALSO a preference for the same gender. Which gene is expressed decdes if you are heterosexual, homosexual or even bisexual.

So small percent of animals doing something = completely natural and ok in human society ? So i guess child murder and cannibalism are also ok and natural ?  The very fact that homosexual couples can't reproduce ( the main purpose and goal of sex ) should tell you something

Firstly, he wasn't using animals to prove that homosexuality was okay in society. He was using homosexuality to prove that homosexuality natural among some beings and is not the result of people deliberately forcing themselves to be gay. Secondly, homosexuality is okay in society because it does not harm people's health - very different from murder or cannibalism. 

You're right, you didn't make that argument. But you did misunderstand Mnementh's post. He was never proving that homosexuality is ok in society. But you seemed to think he was, as evidenced by the bolded. I was correcting you and then I later said why he didn't need to explain why homosexuality is ok in human society - by making the argument that homosexuality is okay in society.

...I thought he was using the animals argument to prove homosexuality is ok in a society. Me, while never disagreeing homosexuality is ok, quoted him saying that's not a real argument to support the claim.

3.)  Also, if everyone remained abstinent, the human race would go extinct, so what? 

Normal is an ambigious word. Be more precise. 

I don't know what do you expect from me here.. homosexuality is not a normal sexuality. You can call it natural, but certainly not normal

 

Again, what is your point? That hetersexuality is the extremely prevalent sexuality? We all know that





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Jay520 said:
happydolphin said:

In terms of progress the first route is better.

To make the dilemma even easier to comprehend. What if there is always an answer, which leads to a question? As such the first route would still be the best, but it still leads the human no a never-ending quest for answers, even more trolling that to hit a dead-end where there literally is no answer.

This is deep stuff but I think you can understand what I mean. Though pragmatically you will tell yourself "I will only concern myself with the questions I face", in the big picture, what is your direction if in the end it's a pursuit towards, ultimately, nothing (as you will never find the root)?

EDIT: To reiterate, this is a hypothetical scenario, and there just may be an answer to end the tumbling down the rabbit hole, in which case a weak atheist would be vindicated. But it's a specific hope.


Sorry, I forgot to get this post

If there is always an answer which leads to another question, I still beleive we should keep searching. Because with each question we answer, we become smarter and more knowledgable and we can use that knowledge for good things.

Jay, think bigger picture (bolded above). Apart from technological advancement (which is great), why move forward if there is no end destination. That's basically my question.

If you just move to the next step, you're like an ant. As a human, what's the purpose of moving forward with no end destination in sight?

When you're hiking, and it gets tough, do you tell yourself "oh, it's all good, we'll never get to the end so at least we're going forward". No, rather you say "a few more steps and we're there".

I'm just asking, what is the motivation in a hypothetical case (assuming that's the reality, as it is one of two options really) where there really is no end to the chain of questions.



Lol at posters defending the Dad. He's just told his son he doesn't want anything to do with him ever again just because he's gay. He even 'hints' at not wanting him at his funeral. And then he calls his son's natural sexuality a 'lifestyle choice' and not 'natural' according to 'God'.

Yeah good luck defending that letter.



I swear, sometimes on vgc, I read shit, that makes me facepalm in real life.



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happydolphin said:

Jay, think bigger picture (bolded above). Apart from technological advancement (which is great), why move forward if there is no end destination. That's basically my question.

If you just move to the next step, you're like an ant. As a human, what's the purpose of moving forward with no end destination in sight?

When you're hiking, and it gets tough, do you tell yourself "oh, it's all good, we'll never get to the end so at least we're going forward". No, rather you say "a few more steps and we're there".

I'm just asking, what is the motivation in a hypothetical case (assuming that's the reality, as it is one of two options really) where there really is no end to the chain of questions.


And you answered it for yourself. We definitely won't reach to top of the mountain in our life, but we'll add few more steps forward the hill for future generations.

 



That's very upsetting
Being gay is definitely not a choice. The only "choice" you make is to either accept it or live a lie.