If that's all you have to add to the discussion, Runa, I suggest you leave the thread, either debate with people or stay our of the thread. Tossing around insults like that doesn't help anything.

Numbers can lie if they are faked. Up to 60 million killed by Stalin? The number is nowhere near close to reality. Even numbers of 15 to 17 million actually include the 10+ million deaths from famine and disease, which is really debatable if it can be attributed to Stalin. Official documents and data does not reveal more than a couple of million dead through direct Stalinist violence (executions). Of course the number is larger because many sent at the gulags also died, and so did many of those deported. However most historians agree that it is unlikely that more than 10 millions were killed as a direct consequence of Stalin's rule -- and as I said roughly 17 million if famine numbers are included. That's less than 3.5 times smaller than the figure in the website quoted.

The other numbers are also horribly exaggerated, and the Christian numbes are extremely underestimated, and several Christian wars are completely left-out (the vast majority of medieval wars for example). Furthermore, the website fails to note that the human population was significantly smaller in the past and that you cannot simply count numbers as if the total human population is stable.

If there are 100 alive humans and someone kills 98, it is actually a greater massacre than someone killing 1000 from a population of 100 million. In the first situation, 98% of the human population is wiped out...

Please tell me you didn't compare homosexuality to being a neo-nazi...

I've added plenty to the thread throughout its duration.  And it's not an insult, it's an observation, and by turning them into a joke, they can't be taken seriously, as they shouldn't be.  by not taking the bigoted seriously, you take away their power.  

Quite true.  In reality all it does is ensure longer homophobia as you end up making people who support gay marriage look bad to someone in the middleground.  Even if someone has a somewhat illogical wrong arguement, they'll win every time if the otherside is resorting to childish trolling and immaturity.

Most arguements on the internet are actually made for the silentless lurkers who read threads.  Something like an average of 90% of most forum readers never actually post on a website... and demographicaly speaking, these people tend to be much more moderate politically then those who post in threads.

Moderate in pretty much every degree really.  Though GTA and CoD are pretty trashed here, and it seems like the majority of the users hate the game.  Chances are, most people who read these forums actually LOVE those games.

That's why internet participation so rarely works... except in niche markets where the active fanbase are the only people likely to buy the game at first anyway.

The silly piling on and graphics you tend to see on such matters, and political matters on both sides actually tend to do nothing but hurt.

No doubt the "Chick Fil-A Apreciation Day" movement that far suprassed the protests was driven in large part by the lurker 90% seeing silly gifs on facebok insulting people and self congradulating calling people stupid comments.

By people who may have been leaning towaads things like gay marriage, but got angry and frustrated that somebody would trivilize their thought process as such.

Hey man, I am all for LGBT rights, and I really appreciate the fact that you have so much passion for such the cause, so I would like to thank you for that... thank you!

I just want to tell you that sometimes we have to be a lot less aggressive when we discuss such sensitive topics, because honestly, the sole reason I discuss these stuff with people is trying to make a change. No matter how right I am, the likelihood of making those changes happen are next to zero if I am being blunt or rude. In the past few years I have managed to change 3 of my religious mates perspective on LGBT rights and toning down my anger was key.

It's all about why we are doing this in the first place, to make the world a better place for everyone, right? I see no harm in discussing these stuff in ways different than the ones you are employing in this thread which I don't think they've served you or your cause well. It's not just about being right, it's about conveying the message in a way that others will accept it.

I am not trying to preach here since I made mistakes in this particular thread myself, so take take it as  friendly advice. :)

You put a quote mark at the beginning and never again.  The second half of the post "I believe" was your words.  If it wasn't, you still are encouraging homophobia.  

Hmmmm.  Did you call me idiotic?  I think that you did.  Guess what that gets you? 

Normally, and ideally, I'd agree.  it doesn't come across well online due to my confrontational nature about certain issues, but I actually hate conflict.  I spent the better part of a quarter century trying to make a difference by passive means, preaching tolerance and love, denouncing bigotry and hatred.  20+ years of trying to do the right thing but never resorting to violence, and you know how much of a change I made in the world?  virtually nothing. just saying "Love and accept those who are different" does nothing but alert the world that you believe in it.  unless you're taking action, by finding ways to actively steal the voice of those who would use it to harm minorities, you're never going to make a difference.  They're still going to do what they can to harm those who think or act differently, or who are part of a minority, and unless you STOP them from doing so, well, the cycle continues and they pass that bigotry on to their children.  

I am so vocal against certain types of bigotry and intolerance not becuase I love conflict (I really, really don't), but becuase I know that the only way I'm going to make the world a better place is to fight back.   you don't win a fight by curling in a ball and waiting  until they're tired, you defend yourself, and sometimes that means throwing a few punches back;  some people won't stop until they are knocked out.  sometimes hate is so strong that no amount of wellwishing and kind words will stop them.  

So yes, sometimes you have to be aggressive.  

Truth be told, I'm actually a pacifist, I hate using violence to solve my problems and I would rather discuss my differences...but sometimes you have no choice.  when it comes down to it and you have to chose between fighting back and dying, you fight back.  

I fight back.  

I've decided to lock this thread because the discussion has run it's course and every time that someone bumps it, problems occur.