I agree with the first part (more or less), but animals make also decisions. They are not simply instinct-machines.

Basically, we humans and the animals MOSTLY decide for what was most successful in our evolution (and that's not always about maximizing our personal profit), so the free will might be an illusion from this point of view. But mostly our options are plenty and it's hard to predict how someone will decide and decisions will differ between people. So the assumption of free will is a good explanation for our behaviour anyways.

This thread is less profound than it is attempting to be. What you are doing is simply defining choice through the guise of someone who just finished a psychology class in college. Choice is still the same to me as it was yesterday, the word is what you attempt to enlighten us about, not the actual action.

now that I am awake again:

Here is a scenario that happened to me.


A job in my team come up at my new place of work. At my previous job I use to work with my best mate, We do everything together, sports, gaming and go out. Since the new job has created a bit of a distance between use, we now spend less time together. I asked him to apply for the job and even recommended him to my manager directly so he could once again work with me and we could hang out more and do the stuff we love doing.

I wrote the technical questions for the interview. However I chose not to give them to my mate as I thought he would know the answers. In the interview he messed up one very important question as he was nervous and english is not his native language, which made my manager question his ability to handle himself. In the end he did not get the job.

Most people in this case would do everything in their power to help a friend get in the door.

Now if I given him the answers there would be no doubt thart he would have been less nervous and gotten the job.

How did I profit from this scenario?
I am pissed of with myself for leaving it to chance and now have to wait for more applicants to be interviewed, meaning at the same time I am doing extra person's work and not being paid for it. This also means that my mate might have to move to another state for a job as his current contract is expiring. So then I will get to see him even less. More dissapointment for me. Ontop of that my manager is probbably thinking why did I recommend him in the first place, so makes me look bad.

Please note that in my short working career thi sis the first time I have ever recommended anyone. So not like I had previous personal preferences on what I would do in this scenario.

The1 how many times have you created a thread with this same topic and how many times did countless number of people prove you wrong?? Seriously, just let it go already.

Just because you expect or hope for profit when making a decision doesn't mean you'll receive it. People (and not to mention: companies) regret decisions every day because of lost profits or greater losses than expected.

You simply lost a bet with yourself.

(sorry, by the way)

@Player_ If you have nothing to add there is no reason to post.

Nope, I don't agree.

@bold. For decisions that are made earlier in a muderer's lifetime, I believe, before his past decisions forged his destiny, his decision making isn't as simple as you put it.

For example, a murderer may have the option to satisfy a temporary craving to kill, or resist the craving and suffer withdrawal temporarily.

For example, if he chooses to resist, he may suffer withdrawal and doubt his decision. He may or may not be aware of this phenomenon, and his awareness to the inconvenience of not satisfying a temporary pleasure may be the outcome of previous choices. At some point in his life he made choices over which he also did not know the consequences exactly, but someone told him "this you shouldn't do" or "this you should do". Ultimately the person made choices that formed their identity, and they may or may not have resisted the need to satisfy a temporary pleasure instead of resisting and obeing the best practice of a parent or mentor.

As such, a person may go through this situation educated or not, but ultimately the person can choose one or the other, they are never forced. It's as simple as rolling a dice really, not as deterministic as you say.

Even, I dare you to base some decisions on the roll of a dice, it could be interesting.

That's just the psychologists approximation to behavioural science. Psychology, like every other science, is merely physics with limitations and approximations. If you want to be right, as opposed to just getting a useful approximation, you need to look at the physics of the situation.

The fact is, you are (in the consensus of scientists) quite incorrect, when stating that the person would always have bought the coke. The universe is not predetermined, according to our best theories. The state of the universe is indeterminable. When we measure a particle's position, it's velocity is not only unknown, but also impossible to know. It is possible (if exceedingly unlikely) that your entire body could spontaneously teleport a short distance, and there is no way of predicting this. A tiny change to our brain chemistry is entirely possible.

So we have a situation where no-one, no matter how intelligent they are, and how much data/time they have, can predict what we will do with 100% accuracy, and it is because of the building blocks that make up our body/brain that we can make one decision or another. Is that not the exact definition of free will?

tl;dr, Your argument is as useful, and as true as F=Ma. That is to say, very useful, but completely, provably incorrect.

And whether he chose to resist the need to satisfy a temporary pleasure or not depended on two things:

1. His will-power

2. The amount of pleasure gained by not resisting

And he cannot control any of those. Different persons means different values on those two which is why people choose differently even if they are in the exact same scenario. Though I must admit that this is extremely simplified.

Your humility is refreshing. Yes, it is extremely simplified.

What if someone made the individual curious by telling them "have you tried making a different choice? if you never know what's out there, how will you ever find out?". Next time the person chooses, they will maybe, out of curiosity, try the other option.

Edit: Did you  read the dice part of my post?