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Forums - Gaming - I wanna program a game and put it onto a NES/Genesis cartridge. Please Help.

kain_kusanagi said:

You don't know enough right now to do it. First learn to program something simple like Python. Then learn to program something more complex like C++ or Visual C. Then if yous till want to make a Genesis game you will need to find a Genesis home brew community and find out from them what it will take to program a game, for example the specific machine/assembly code.

It won't be easy and you may even need a natural programing talent to do it successfully. Even if you do learn to program and get the resources you need to program a Genesis game, you will need more than code to complete the game. I've made several games, (see: www.2bitproductions.org ), and I can tell you that even making simple games takes tons of art and sound assets. It takes a tremendous amount of planing and troubleshooting.

Don't put the cart before the horse. You will fail. But if you learn the basics, build on that knowledge with more knowledge, and are driven you will meet your goal. Whether the game will be good or not doesn't matter.

This. What you're asking is not good for a first or even a tenth project. And even then please settle for it working in an emulator rather than a real cart.



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HappySqurriel said:
 

I know that ...

I was simply commenting on his edit (where he is talking about bizzarre ascii characters, which is often the result of binary data being displayed in text)

Edit: Looks like I just got confused by the entire block, I wasn't responding to you, sorry 'bout that.



HappySqurriel said:
I don't want to be condescending but if you have to ask you probably shouldn't be doing it ...

Developing a game for these platforms is not for the faint of heart and, unless you already have substantial low level development experience in assembly language, you probably start somewhere else. The only exception I would make to this is if you're already an experienced (professional) developer and have a high threshold for frustration.


Man, I'm glad someone is finally being the voice of reason.  If you have to ask what Assembly is, you aren't ready to program in assembly language. I know that sounds like some sort of joke but it very much isn't. Assembly can make even the best programmers out there scratch their heads. The type of people that write game engines in assembly are people like Carmack. 

Like someone else said, start small. If you set out to make yor own engine or hardware from the get-go you will fail miserably. If you want to make your own hardware, I don't really know where to start but it isn't by trying to create a SNES. Try creating the logic for stop light using circuits.  If you want to be a designer, pick an established engine and knock yourself out. If you want to be a programmer, learn C++. If you want to be an artist, take a life drawing and a sculpting class. 

Dont set out to create a console, engine, and game on your first go. 



Mnementh said:

cloud1161 said:

I really want to get into doing my own gaming hardware stuff.  Are there any other recommendations for uploading a game to a popular system like NES or Genesis?   I would like to build a completely homegrown 8 or 16 bit console to play my own games and stuff on.  Do either of you know if it is possible to get a NES or Genesis or SNES or some other popular old school console schematic?   I would like to build one on my own if possible.   


Not an easy task you have chosen. Do you want to emulate an old console and add own games, or do you want to build a new console with modern tech? The second task may be much easier to pull off. Today there are many chips, that can be easily used. Most common used are ARM-processors (that also is used in the DS for example).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture

Another option to build an own project on is Arduino. That is a complete board.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arduino

That modern tech is not compatible with the old consoles though. The NES used a Ricoh 2A03 as processor, the Genesis a Motorola 68000. I don't believe the Ricoh is produced anymore. The Motorola-chip was very popular, it was also used in the some Apple machines. So someone may produce clones of this chip. But the complete setup of the old consoles may contain even more old chips, that are hard to obtain these days.


I was probably going to use more modern technology.   I was actually thinking about using my Arduino Uno board in some way but wasn't sure excactly how to incorporate it in there.  I also have a Velleman K8055 board that I built, but I found it is not very user friendly.    My idea was to use the Arduino to act something like an expansion bus and just access different parts of the console such as power and reset and to access the main processor.   



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He who hesitates is lost

KungKras said:
cloud1161 said:
darkknightkryta said:
KungKras said:
cloud1161 said:
KungKras said:
You'll have to use Assembly I believe. And you'll need the documentation for the all the chips.

Is Assembly a language or script or something like that?  And do you know how to go about getting the documentation for the chips?   And I am not sure if this is possible, but if is it possible to make your own cartridge if you got all the parts?

The cartridge is not a problem. You can buy a special cartridge that you can load files into from a docking station connected to your PC. I don't know where but I know they exist.

The Sega2.doc has info on the megadrive, but it's incomplete. I've found a few guides about programming the megadrive by googling "Programming the MegaDrive" I'm sure the NES homebrew community has info about the NES components, but I've never looked it up.

Assembly is basically as close as you can get to machine code without it being unreadable to all but very few programmers. It's basically direct commands for telling the processor to move, compare, add or subract, etc etc. It's very tedious to program, but other people have done it so you can too!

Machine code isn't all that hard to read :D.  Both consoles don't have a C compiler, everything is done through assembly.

NES tutorials: http://www.patater.com/nes-asm-tutorials

Genesis Start (Not necessarily a tutorial, but will give you a start for searching): http://www.gamedev.net/topic/575801-making-a-game-for-the-sega-genesis/

Thanks a bunch you guys.  I really want to get into doing my own gaming hardware stuff.  Are there any other recommendations for uploading a game to a popular system like NES or Genesis?   I would like to build a completely homegrown 8 or 16 bit console to play my own games and stuff on.  Do either of you know if it is possible to get a NES or Genesis or SNES or some other popular old school console schematic?   I would like to build one on my own if possible.   

For processor, I recommend the Motorola 6800 since it's still in use today, they're probably easy to find on Ebay or some other place that sells IC chips.

For sound, I'd use a Yamaha 2612. I bought one on Ebay myself, so probably easy to find. I think there is info about how it should be hooked up on the cirquit board and how to program it on its wikipedia page. But be warned, I find the schematic kinda hard to read even though I study electrical engineering.

I don't have any knowledge about any graphics chips.

That is, if you want to be realy old school. There are modern processors that can do simple graphics, audio playback and processing in one. If you want to make it easy for you, you should buy one of them.

Yea, I think I will probably just get one of the all-in-one processors.  I don't really want an exact replica of any of those older systems, I just want to build a console for some reason.



Check out my video game music blog:

http://games-and-guitars.synergize.co/

 

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He who hesitates is lost

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kain_kusanagi said:

You don't know enough right now to do it. First learn to program something simple like Python. Then learn to program something more complex like C++ or Visual C. Then if yous till want to make a Genesis game you will need to find a Genesis home brew community and find out from them what it will take to program a game, for example the specific machine/assembly code.

It won't be easy and you may even need a natural programing talent to do it successfully. Even if you do learn to program and get the resources you need to program a Genesis game, you will need more than code to complete the game. I've made several games, (see: www.2bitproductions.org ), and I can tell you that even making simple games takes tons of art and sound assets. It takes a tremendous amount of planing and troubleshooting.

Don't put the cart before the horse. You will fail. But if you learn the basics, build on that knowledge with more knowledge, and are driven you will meet your goal. Whether the game will be good or not doesn't matter.

I am actually a fairly avid programmer thank you very much.  I honestly am not worried about the programming part for the type of games I want to do.  That will be the easy (I should say easier because the whole project will be a pain) part for me I think.  The hard part is finding a means to upload it to a cartridge or some other medium.



Check out my video game music blog:

http://games-and-guitars.synergize.co/

 

 PROUD MEMBER OF THE PLAYSTATION 3 : RPG FAN CLUB

 

He who hesitates is lost

twesterm said:
HappySqurriel said:
I don't want to be condescending but if you have to ask you probably shouldn't be doing it ...

Developing a game for these platforms is not for the faint of heart and, unless you already have substantial low level development experience in assembly language, you probably start somewhere else. The only exception I would make to this is if you're already an experienced (professional) developer and have a high threshold for frustration.


Man, I'm glad someone is finally being the voice of reason.  If you have to ask what Assembly is, you aren't ready to program in assembly language. I know that sounds like some sort of joke but it very much isn't. Assembly can make even the best programmers out there scratch their heads. The type of people that write game engines in assembly are people like Carmack. 

Like someone else said, start small. If you set out to make yor own engine or hardware from the get-go you will fail miserably. If you want to make your own hardware, I don't really know where to start but it isn't by trying to create a SNES. Try creating the logic for stop light using circuits.  If you want to be a designer, pick an established engine and knock yourself out. If you want to be a programmer, learn C++. If you want to be an artist, take a life drawing and a sculpting class. 

Dont set out to create a console, engine, and game on your first go. 

Lmao, I really didn't plan to do all this all at once.   I do have a modest amount of game programming experience.  Pretty much a few simple games in Python/Pygame and C++.  The whole reason why I want to get into this really is to learn more than anything.  In all honestly, I have no means of full out learning Assembly, but I would like to get some simple concepts out of it (if there even are any).  I have alot more experience in the digital electronics side of things though.  I mean I am only 21 so there is alot out there I want to explore before I start specializing and this is is just one of those things.



Check out my video game music blog:

http://games-and-guitars.synergize.co/

 

 PROUD MEMBER OF THE PLAYSTATION 3 : RPG FAN CLUB

 

He who hesitates is lost

cloud1161 said:
kain_kusanagi said:

You don't know enough right now to do it. First learn to program something simple like Python. Then learn to program something more complex like C++ or Visual C. Then if yous till want to make a Genesis game you will need to find a Genesis home brew community and find out from them what it will take to program a game, for example the specific machine/assembly code.

It won't be easy and you may even need a natural programing talent to do it successfully. Even if you do learn to program and get the resources you need to program a Genesis game, you will need more than code to complete the game. I've made several games, (see: www.2bitproductions.org ), and I can tell you that even making simple games takes tons of art and sound assets. It takes a tremendous amount of planing and troubleshooting.

Don't put the cart before the horse. You will fail. But if you learn the basics, build on that knowledge with more knowledge, and are driven you will meet your goal. Whether the game will be good or not doesn't matter.

I am actually a fairly avid programmer thank you very much.  I honestly am not worried about the programming part for the type of games I want to do.  That will be the easy (I should say easier because the whole project will be a pain) part for me I think.  The hard part is finding a means to upload it to a cartridge or some other medium.


Ask this guy http://www.gamereproductions.com/ about flashing eprom. I sent him an English patched Monster World IV rom and he burned it onto a chip for me. He knows what he's doing



cloud1161 said:
twesterm said:
HappySqurriel said:
I don't want to be condescending but if you have to ask you probably shouldn't be doing it ...

Developing a game for these platforms is not for the faint of heart and, unless you already have substantial low level development experience in assembly language, you probably start somewhere else. The only exception I would make to this is if you're already an experienced (professional) developer and have a high threshold for frustration.


Man, I'm glad someone is finally being the voice of reason.  If you have to ask what Assembly is, you aren't ready to program in assembly language. I know that sounds like some sort of joke but it very much isn't. Assembly can make even the best programmers out there scratch their heads. The type of people that write game engines in assembly are people like Carmack. 

Like someone else said, start small. If you set out to make yor own engine or hardware from the get-go you will fail miserably. If you want to make your own hardware, I don't really know where to start but it isn't by trying to create a SNES. Try creating the logic for stop light using circuits.  If you want to be a designer, pick an established engine and knock yourself out. If you want to be a programmer, learn C++. If you want to be an artist, take a life drawing and a sculpting class. 

Dont set out to create a console, engine, and game on your first go. 

Lmao, I really didn't plan to do all this all at once.   I do have a modest amount of game programming experience.  Pretty much a few simple games in Python/Pygame and C++.  The whole reason why I want to get into this really is to learn more than anything.  In all honestly, I have no means of full out learning Assembly, but I would like to get some simple concepts out of it (if there even are any).  I have alot more experience in the digital electronics side of things though.  I mean I am only 21 so there is alot out there I want to explore before I start specializing and this is is just one of those things.


In assembly, nothing is simple.  



kain_kusanagi said:

You don't know enough right now to do it. First learn to program something simple like Python. Then learn to program something more complex like C++ or Visual C. Then if yous till want to make a Genesis game you will need to find a Genesis home brew community and find out from them what it will take to program a game, for example the specific machine/assembly code.

It won't be easy and you may even need a natural programing talent to do it successfully. Even if you do learn to program and get the resources you need to program a Genesis game, you will need more than code to complete the game. I've made several games, (see: www.2bitproductions.org ), and I can tell you that even making simple games takes tons of art and sound assets. It takes a tremendous amount of planing and troubleshooting.

Don't put the cart before the horse. You will fail. But if you learn the basics, build on that knowledge with more knowledge, and are driven you will meet your goal. Whether the game will be good or not doesn't matter.

Actually I disagree. Learning the stuff from the assembly side is not that hard - if you have a simple machine. A Raspberry Pi or an old console is not that complicated, learning Assembly for that is doable.



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