Well, as I see it that's a very great reason to question the "sense" of Abrahamic religions.

I don't expect all to question their beliefs when reading the OP though, but it's one of the main reasons to why I started doing that 2/3 years ago. Insert science into religion and suddenly  the "sense" starts to decrease, and you'll have to find more illogical/scientifically unproven ways to defend your beliefs (like Sal.Paradise did on the first page of this thread, and thetonestarr a few posts ago).

Why don't you get it? It's not about just religion and sin, it's that all moral choices make no sense, regardless if you're religious or an atheist. Morals cease to exist when you have no free will.

Yes, but that is unrelated to the discussion:

Free will: God is not almighty.

No free will: God is almighty, but sins don't exist. Or sins do exist, but people are born to commit them and to go to hell.

This thread is not about questioning the existence of morals.

But I will tell you what I currently understand. (Please dont mock me, I gave you my oppinion as you have asked. Lets respect one another)

We currently see in three dimentions. We smell,we  feel, we sence all the dimentions up to the third. And can only get a little taste of the 4th dimention (Hyper cube skeleton). However, I do believe that God exists beyond the third dimention and becuse of this that he is able to have unimaginary abilities that we can never comprehend. This was proven in the bible when Jesus was able to Heal some one in a distance (As opposed to his deciples healing someone with touching them) And being able to travel distances outside of time (Teleportation). 

This teleportation can be easily explained.

For example: Take a 2d drawing. Draw one wall with one box and one stick figure on each side of that wall. Now erase that one box on either side and draw it on the other side of the wall. Easy 2-d teleportation done by a higher dimentional being.

The stick figures that you have drawn can a representation of humans. They have no comprehension of what has just happened. Therefore they often doubt. 

However as a being only limited to only three dimentions and simply trying to fully comprehend God who exists on higher dimentions is like limiting him to human knowledge. The human knowlegde which is LIMITED to the 3rd dimention which in fact God exists in more than that. Which therefore has the reasons that no human can either guess or answer. 

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Ok as for your free will question.

Why give us free will if God already knows what our final fate is? 

Think about this for a second. One man chooses to steal from a store. The shop keeper reacts violently. Does the man in turn reacts violently and accidentally kills him? Intentionally kills him? Severely injusres him? Lightly injures him? Or does the man simply runs away?

What about the shop keeper? If the man who stole runs away.. Whill the store keeper runs after him? Calls 911? Or sit in the corner trying to comprehend what has just happened? What if the man Severely injures him?  Will the shop keeper try to further defend the shop? Will he Lay there as the man continues on with his business?

What I believe the answer is that Yes free will does do exist and yes God knows if we are to go in hell or not. However, this is where you should stop for a second and think. Knowing that God is almighty. He knows our fate. But how does our free will co-exists? Think about it. What if God knows every "Path". Man chooses to kill the shop keeper (more likely hell) one web, one path, one tangle  Man chooses to run away (More likely heaven) one web, one path, one tangle. What if we have free will but it exists at a vast and unimaginable tangles of web. (Tangles which represents the inteferrence of other people in our lives).

These tangles do exists if our free will were co-exist with God's almghty ability of limitless knowledge. We choose to keep going straight and someone else interferes and turns us to the right. 

Imagine this. The web is fibre optic. As photons each pass its very fibres. One string of fibre is a corridor of SET conseqnces of a descision already set in motion. However theres this photon refelctor at the end of this "fibre" . This reflectoris your "freewill". YOU get to choose. You chose path left which is path NO. 12874930 while you chose not to enter the path to the right which is coded NO.93745606. God then knows what your faith is gonna be. Then theres this other Photon that interferes with you. (Another human whose free will has set his or her fibre to fate to collide with you at the same time) And this other photon makes you turn 38 degrees to the left which is called the path NO.8757495. See where im going?

(The other photon colliding with the photon represents that Free will can exist on multiple players. THEIR free will descision has caused us to collide. If the other person has never chosen that path, I could have continued down the end of the tunnel.)

God already KNOWS our fate. But as soon as we take another free willed turn, our fates couldpossibly have changed, as God exists on all dimentions he practically knows our immedite change of faith in which didnt take him any "time" at all to realize. So technically He does know our faith as he exists out of time. There are potentially limitless "paths" out there. However, as you have said, God is almighty. This then means God has limitless knowlenge right?

Its 12:16 am. Im sorry If I didnt make my grammar clear enough. 

I know but it should be, you should have incorporated it there, because the (non)sense of Abrahamic religions and sinning gets dwarfed by the fact that morals don't exists.

It's the same. The dilemma and lack of sense is the same!

* The religious walks around and believes his choices in life matter for his own salvation or damnation - when in fact no choices exist because everything is already pre-determined and known by God.

* The atheist (or anybody, really) walks around and believes his choices in life matter and tries to do right instead of wrong with the assumption that his choices and behaviour will be judged by himself and anybody around him - when in fact no choices exist because everything is already pre-determined by the construction of your biological machine and external input.

Both of these persons walk around in an illusion thinking morals exist and that personal choices matter. One with the goal to end up in Heaven, the other with the goal to make his life enjoyable or to make the world a better place - but both walk around in an illusion that makes no sense (the illusion that your choices matter).

You shouldn't only adress the (non-)sense of the former but also the (non-)sense of the latter. Else you are intellectually dishonest.

You make a good point.

The thing is though that when an atheist get the idea that everything is determined, then he won't really change a lot as a person. His opinions will pretty much stay the same. A religious person on the other hand would have to question his entire lifestyle and go: "Hmm... Maybe there is no reason to look down on homosexual people? Maybe circumcision should be up to the child to decide once it grows up, since it doesn't really matter to God anyway? Maybe I shouldn't look down on people who has sex before marriage? Maybe it's okay to file for divorce if the couple is unhappy?" (Those questions obviously differ from person to person.)

After all, the purpose of this thread is to stop unnecessary pain which is caused by unjustified religious rituals, which does not apply to atheists.

That applies to an atheist person just as well, you just haven't thought about all the implications it has to realize that your choices don't matter, that you have no free will.

Do you realize the implications? Don't you see how radically it would change an atheist if he truly started to live as if everything is pre-determined.

You would stop thinking "Dammit, Person X why did you make Y decision", because Person X could only have made that decision and not anything else.

"Maybe I shouldn't condemn that racist, rapist or murderer and make him feel bad, his opinion is just as well based as mine is".

"Wow, maybe I should start questioning my own morals and my own instincts - because there exists no moral choices, no right and wrong! Everything just happens and everything could just happen in one certain way and never end up in any other way, so what does it matter what my opinion is, what my instincts tell me (or whatever it is that pops up in my mind, all these opinions)? Maybe I shouldn't bother with other people's business at all, because what they do, they couldn't have done any other way, and what they will do in the future they wouldn't be able to have done in any other way - and it's all independent of what I do or don't do".

See? See how radical that is?

And impossible. Because no matter what you claim to believe in theory ("I do not believe in free will, I'm just a biological machine") you do not practice that in real life. No one does.

I am well aware of that there is not a single reason to be angry at anything, which is why I don't divide people between good and evil. I say people are fortunate or unfortunate. A criminal is unfortunate to meet with such fate, a child is unfortunate to fall victum for a pedophile, a pedophile is unfortunate to be born/raised as a sexually twisted person, and so on. Things that happens do happen, which is sad oftentimes. But you also get to enjoy certain things more since it makes you realize how fortunate you are.

Of course, the animal inside me still mekes me angry sometimes, but the very same animal is what makes the enjoyment in life possible as well. And I don't want some, by humans, made up rules about homosexuality being wrong to stand in their way.

But yeah, my morals still stands, as they are a part of who I have become. But that still has nothing to do with this thread.

I am reminded of a story connected to followers of Zeno.  In this, Zeno argued that it is impossible to get anywhere because you can always half the distance when you travel, so you never reach any destination.  In response to one of the followers breaking his arm, the doctor said he couldn't help him, because he could never reach him.  The followed supposedly cursed the doctor and told him to just come over and help him.

Ivory towers of ideological purity will fall to the wayside when faced with the reality of practicality in life.  

Determinism, as you looked at there, does have consequences, on a personal level, and also collectively, which has been seen by political parties who subscribe and take over totalitarian style societies.  Those who believe in no free will will end up governing like tyrants and rationalize away bad behavior as necessity.  Standards do drop in this, with the belief that it will work out in the end.

And you also did touch on the determinist argument against sin, with sin being defined as violation of a code of conduct.  That being if no one has a choice, then how can you fault them for what they do?  You actually can't.  Thus, with the disappearance of a code of conduct, you also do away with the violation of this code of conduct, or sin.  And I commend you for going here, because I find it more interesting than what the original poster wrote on this.

Considering how veiled you have been with your intentions in regards to the purpose of this thread, it is getting to a place where anything posted in it will have nothing to do with this thread at all.  Apparently, it isn't about determinism, nor is it really about sin either (any discussion about whether sin is or is not, is going to have to discuss what one sins against), outside of the wish that there wasn't any.  You should really come out and say it is about your support for gay marriage, and be done with it.  It would be a lot simplier, and posts in it have a shot at having something to do with it.