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Slimebeast on 13 May 2012
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IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
Slimebeast said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Well, as I see it that's a very great reason to question the "sense" of Abrahamic religions.

I don't expect all to question their beliefs when reading the OP though, but it's one of the main reasons to why I started doing that 2/3 years ago. Insert science into religion and suddenly  the "sense" starts to decrease, and you'll have to find more illogical/scientifically unproven ways to defend your beliefs (like Sal.Paradise did on the first page of this thread, and thetonestarr a few posts ago).

Why don't you get it? It's not about just religion and sin, it's that all moral choices make no sense, regardless if you're religious or an atheist. Morals cease to exist when you have no free will.

Yes, but that is unrelated to the discussion:

Free will: God is not almighty.

No free will: God is almighty, but sins don't exist. Or sins do exist, but people are born to commit them and to go to hell.

 

This thread is not about questioning the existence of morals.

I know but it should be, you should have incorporated it there, because the (non)sense of Abrahamic religions and sinning gets dwarfed by the fact that morals don't exists.

It's the same. The dilemma and lack of sense is the same!

* The religious walks around and believes his choices in life matter for his own salvation or damnation - when in fact no choices exist because everything is already pre-determined and known by God.

* The atheist (or anybody, really) walks around and believes his choices in life matter and tries to do right instead of wrong with the assumption that his choices and behaviour will be judged by himself and anybody around him - when in fact no choices exist because everything is already pre-determined by the construction of your biological machine and external input.

Both of these persons walk around in an illusion thinking morals exist and that personal choices matter. One with the goal to end up in Heaven, the other with the goal to make his life enjoyable or to make the world a better place - but both walk around in an illusion that makes no sense (the illusion that your choices matter).

You shouldn't only adress the (non-)sense of the former but also the (non-)sense of the latter. Else you are intellectually dishonest.