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richardhutnik on 13 May 2012
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Slimebeast said:

That applies to an atheist person just as well, you just haven't thought about all the implications it has to realize that your choices don't matter, that you have no free will.

Do you realize the implications? Don't you see how radically it would change an atheist if he truly started to live as if everything is pre-determined.

You would stop thinking "Dammit, Person X why did you make Y decision", because Person X could only have made that decision and not anything else.

"Maybe I shouldn't condemn that racist, rapist or murderer and make him feel bad, his opinion is just as well based as mine is".

"Wow, maybe I should start questioning my own morals and my own instincts - because there exists no moral choices, no right and wrong! Everything just happens and everything could just happen in one certain way and never end up in any other way, so what does it matter what my opinion is, what my instincts tell me (or whatever it is that pops up in my mind, all these opinions)? Maybe I shouldn't bother with other people's business at all, because what they do, they couldn't have done any other way, and what they will do in the future they wouldn't be able to have done in any other way - and it's all independent of what I do or don't do".

See? See how radical that is?

And impossible. Because no matter what you claim to believe in theory ("I do not believe in free will, I'm just a biological machine") you do not practice that in real life. No one does.


I am reminded of a story connected to followers of Zeno.  In this, Zeno argued that it is impossible to get anywhere because you can always half the distance when you travel, so you never reach any destination.  In response to one of the followers breaking his arm, the doctor said he couldn't help him, because he could never reach him.  The followed supposedly cursed the doctor and told him to just come over and help him.

Ivory towers of ideological purity will fall to the wayside when faced with the reality of practicality in life.  

Determinism, as you looked at there, does have consequences, on a personal level, and also collectively, which has been seen by political parties who subscribe and take over totalitarian style societies.  Those who believe in no free will will end up governing like tyrants and rationalize away bad behavior as necessity.  Standards do drop in this, with the belief that it will work out in the end.

And you also did touch on the determinist argument against sin, with sin being defined as violation of a code of conduct.  That being if no one has a choice, then how can you fault them for what they do?  You actually can't.  Thus, with the disappearance of a code of conduct, you also do away with the violation of this code of conduct, or sin.  And I commend you for going here, because I find it more interesting than what the original poster wrote on this.