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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Is the Xbox 360 a Success?

 

Well, answer the damn question.

Yes it is. 333 77.26%
 
No it isn't. 68 15.78%
 
I love it when you recycle, d21! 30 6.96%
 
Total:431

Financially it certainly was; it ate into Sony's marketshare and offset the huge losses of the first Xbox very handily.



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d21lewis said:

halil23 said:
"and tell me if Microsoft and the gaming world are better off with the 360 on the market."
Really? Truth be told: M$ first introduce pay to play on console, first introduce paid dlc, uses own expensive hhd, (notice the trend, m$ loves stealing money and also shows m$ can turn ordinary consumers into idiots that continue to support them, and supporting rrod) money hat reviewers, they even owns cnet which does reviews especially hardware that lowers score that isn't m$, does dirty tactics to get timed exclusives, has the worst failure rate in gaming history, I remember somewhere (consumer affair or some business association, can't remember) said if a hardware company makes product that has a higher failure rate than 10%, then said company has to cease production!! It shows how corrupt business (m$) can get away with it.

Now lewis (ME?), tell me is m$ really better for the gaming world?  It sad to see people continue to support the corrupted instead of the good...    (What the fuck!?  Now, I gotta get ya!)


Poor guy.  No idea what he's up against.......

First off, Sega introduced pay to play on consoles.  Ever hear of Sega Net?  It was for the Dreamcast and it was more expensive than XBL.  M$ used its own expensive HDD but it also came packed with the system for those that wanted one.  It also supports memory cards, external HDDs via USB (Only 16 GB or something, though) and other peripherals.  If memory serves, Sony sold a $99 HDD last gen when all Xbox systems had them for free....and then they released the Slimline PS2 that didn't even support the device.  You speak of hardware reliability but I personally owned two Playstations because the black thingy that held my discs just fell the fuck off for no apparent reason. I owned three Playstation 2's because the first one quit reading discs period.  The second one had disc reading problems and when I opened it to perform a quick fix that I saw on youtube, I broke it.  I owned three Xbox 360's because the first one quit reading discs and then it got the RRoD.  I sold it.  My second one still works.  It's "Kinect-ed" to my TV in the living room.  My second one still works.  It's a 360s in my gaming room and it shares a shelf with my Wii, PC, and PS3.  Sony has hurt me more with their reliability than Microsoft. 

Is Nintendo better for the gaming world?  Remember (you probably don't) when they used to bully third parties?  They used to make them purchase expensive cartridges only from Nintendo and they had to buy a certain number.  If their game was shit, they spent too much on carts.  If their game was awesome, they didn't buy enough carts so they lost out on sales.  Remember how Nintendo wouldn't let companies release more than a certain number of games in a year?  That's why Konami had to create a second company called Ultra Games in the 80's so that they could actually release Metal Gear in the US.  Remember how, if Nintendo was going to releas a game of a certain genre, nobody was allowed to release a game in a competing genre for a certain amount of time?  And yet, Nintendo is good for gaming.  In fact, they're actually gaming's savior after the gaming crash in the early 80's.

Is Sony good for gaming?  Remember how they said consumers would "Get a second job" to pay for the $600 PS3?  Remember how they took features like backwards compatibility from the PS3?  How they refused to allow several 2D games to ever be released on the PS1?  How they made sure that several games were exclusive to their platform and wouldn't allow them to go to Saturn/Xbox during the PS1/PS2 days until MUCH later (GTA)?  The previously mentioned horrifically defective PS1/PS2 consoles ( I remember somewhere (consumer affair or some business association, can't remember) said if a hardware company makes product that has a higher failure rate than 10%, then said company has to cease production!! --sound familiar?)?  And yet, Sony is good for gaming.  In fact, they're actually responsible for gaming going "mainstream" and becoming a more mature form of entertainment.

So Microsoft brings DLC to consoles.  Downloadable games like XBLA, Netflix (almost a year before it came to Wii and PS3--without a disc*), Indie games, Achievements, an amazing web infrastructure that its competitors feed off of, video chat, movies/TV shows that can be purchased, and more.  Features that have become almost standard since Microsoft brought them to market first.  Features that you probably enjoy on your PS3 without a second thought where they originated.....and you question whether Microsoft and its "rivalry" with Sony is good for gaming?  Your PS3 wouldn't exist in its current form if it wasn't for the Xbox 360.  And vice versa.  Microsoft is good for gaming.

Let that soak into your pores.  It's good for the complexion.

 

*I know Microsoft had a deal with Netflix.  That's why Nintendo/Sony had to use discs (I still have the discs!).  It was their way of getting around Microsoft's exclusivity deal.  Still, Microsoft tested the waters and made Netflix a huge success until Netflix screwed it all up by almost doubling their prices.

You pretty much said everything I wanted to say but without the profanity. For that D21 I thank you for saving me from banhood, you are now officially my savior!



                                           

                      The definitive evidence that video games turn people into mass murderers

halil23 said:
"and tell me if Microsoft and the gaming world are better off with the 360 on the market."
Really? Truth be told: M$ first introduce pay to play on console, first introduce paid dlc, uses own expensive hhd, (notice the trend, m$ loves stealing money and also shows m$ can turn ordinary consumers into idiots that continue to support them, and supporting rrod) money hat reviewers, they even owns cnet which does reviews especially hardware that lowers score that isn't m$, does dirty tactics to get timed exclusives, has the worst failure rate in gaming history, I remember somewhere (consumer affair or some business association, can't remember) said if a hardware company makes product that has a higher failure rate than 10%, then said company has to cease production!! It shows how corrupt business (m$) can get away with it.
Now lewis, tell me is m$ really better for the gaming world?
It sad to see people continue to support the corrupted instead of the good...


It's true, Microsoft is evil.

Go open up Microsoft Word and type "Xbox" and type "Playstation". "Playstation" will be identified as a mispelled word while "Xbox" will be identified as correct. What they're doing is corrupting Americans into thinking that Playstation doesn't even exist. Microsoft is brainwashing our youth!



so you think microsoft has to put brand names of other companies in his spell checker? makes sense lol

€dit: that was a joke right? i hope i failed in understanding it first^^



happydolphin said:
brendude13 said:

I would put the Wii ahead of the 360. The only area where I would say Nintendo failed was with 3rd parties, but even then they still have a great relationship with all of the main Japanese 3rd party devs, especially when it comes to handhelds.

Most of the shortcomings you listed like the lack of HD are all down to customer satisfaction, if this list was about how successful the companies have been in terms of customer satisfaction it would be upside down for me.

In terms of business, the Wii has been a phenomenal success. It has sold the most units, it has the highest profit margins, sales have made the biggest improvement over last gen and it has made the most money from both hardware and software.

Well, to be honest, I think Nintendo really fell short of its potential success with the Wii. As awesome as it did, it could have done so much better, as much as a market leader should. I really believe the main reason for that shortcoming is due to its inability to render at least a baseline level of advanced graphics, that simple extra feature making it the goto platform of the generation (above and beyond the casual strategy). Then people would have multiple Wiis in their homes, sales would have exploded imho. But, we weren't there to see it, so noone can know for sure

Again, from a business perspective.

I wouldn't really think it would make a difference. HD would have increased the price of the Wii as well as the production costs, they would sell less and make less money on each system sold, and I doubt the people who would have bought the Wii for HD would have made much difference. I also think that the PS3 and Xbox 360 multiplats would have made their way onto the Wii and ruined its reputation as a family friendly console. Still, I do wonder how Nintendo would have done if the Wii had similar power to the HD twins.



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Pemalite said:
To add to that... Microsoft also had a hand in developing the PS3's graphics chip.
The GPU inside the PS3 is of an nVidia design which actually adheres to the Direct X standard.
AMD, nVidia and other companies actually communicate with Microsoft on various levels about new standards and features that go into Direct X.
In-turn nVidia and AMD get to share each others (And Microsoft's) technologies and make it a standard in their hardware as it's supported in Direct X, the API that 99% of PC games use.

So thank Microsoft for assisting the PS3 in some way for it's graphical capabilities.

As for competition... Hell yes is it good.
The worst thing about these Billion dollar companies is if they have a market cornered... They sit on their lorrels and stagnate with less features, higher prices. Ultimately consumers end up worst off.
No, Sony or Microsoft will not send you flowers and cake if they were the only company in the console market and you bought their products. They would *milk* you for all it's worth.
Why people favor one company over the other... I'll never know, they don't actually care about you as an individual, but they do care about your money.

The Xbox has been a success for Microsoft, it's made them money, they will release a successor, nothing but success for a company where their main goal is to make money and please shareholders. - Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony are exactly the same in that respect.

What nonsense , MS had no hand in the PS3's GPU , the DX argument is irrelevant , for many reasons one being PS3 uses Open GL , that according to nvidia's developer site is the worlds most used api , plus if you used your argument you could say Sony was responsible for the 360's CPU seeing IBM used a variant of the cell architecture to produce its cores , the truth of the matter is MS is responsible for their product , just has Sony is for theirs , I remember bill Gates talking about the success of the PS1 and how the market had grown  and video gaming at that time was well on the way to becoming the biggest thing in entertainment, and since MS was hamstrung with the way the  PC market worked in regards to hardware ownership , becoming a console manufacturer was the best way of getting some of that pie and  with their background , creating a PC in a box was a no brainer , yes they have had the good and bad since becoming a console maker and still haven't made up  completely all their losses from the original X box through , but that doesn't matter any more because that paid for them to now be  entrenched in the business , profitable with a good stable income stream through live, plus anyway  they will eventually see every dollar back and more .



Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot

brendude13 said:

I wouldn't really think it would make a difference. HD would have increased the price of the Wii as well as the production costs, they would sell less and make less money on each system sold, and I doubt the people who would have bought the Wii for HD would have made much difference. I also think that the PS3 and Xbox 360 multiplats would have made their way onto the Wii and ruined its reputation as a family friendly console. Still, I do wonder how Nintendo would have done if the Wii had similar power to the HD twins.

Finally some good points from a sounding board. I've had good retorts, but these are the kind of ideas I wanted to hear these past few days.



mjk45 said:

What nonsense , MS had no hand in the PS3's GPU , the DX argument is irrelevant , for many reasons one being PS3 uses Open GL , that according to nvidia's developer site is the worlds most used api , plus if you used your argument you could say Sony was responsible for the 360's CPU seeing IBM used a variant of the cell architecture to produce its cores , the truth of the matter is MS is responsible for their product , just has Sony is for theirs , I remember bill Gates talking about the success of the PS1 and how the market had grown  and video gaming at that time was well on the way to becoming the biggest thing in entertainment, and since MS was hamstrung with the way the  PC market worked in regards to hardware ownership , becoming a console manufacturer was the best way of getting some of that pie and  with their background , creating a PC in a box was a no brainer , yes they have had the good and bad since becoming a console maker and still haven't made up  completely all their losses from the original X box through , but that doesn't matter any more because that paid for them to now be  entrenched in the business , profitable with a good stable income stream through live, plus anyway  they will eventually see every dollar back and more .


Regardless if the PS3 uses OpenGL or not.
The GPU in the PS3 is a PC part, It's not an actuall Sony design. It came from the PC which adheres to the DirectX standard that nVidia and AMD make great strides into being fully compatible and optimised with, being OpenGL compliant is a side effect of this because that too is a PC technology used by a few game engines, the PS3's GPU is indeed fully Direct X compliant, they just happen to use a different API to access that GPU's features, that is all.

An example of this is 3dc Texture compression that AMD invented, Microsoft adopted it into the Direct X standard in Direct X 10 which then became available in the Geforce 8 series.

If you look back in history every large jump in graphical fidelity in AAA games was because of Microsoft's Direct X, Direct X 7 with TnL, Direct X 8 with programmable shaders, DirectX 9 with more advanced programmable shaders, shadows etc'.
An exception to this is if you go back even farther to the era of 3dfx and their Glide API which was based on OpenGL, but even then their domination in the graphics arena was short lived when they got beaten by nVidia and Direct X.

This generation is a little bit of an oddball, Most developers are targeting the consoles, mostly the xbox 360 then improving them for the PC and Porting them to the PS3, but even the Xbox uses a variation of Direct X which makes porting games to the PC far easier; this is in stark contrast to previous generations where all games were targeted for the PC and then downgraded for the consoles.

OpenGL does not have the penetration like it used to in AAA games on the PC, most AAA developers use Direct X and then port to OpenGL to other platforms.
Which brings up the point that OpenGL used to be a leader in API development, but since probably the release of DirectX 9 has lagged significantly behind Microsoft in feature adoption and market penetration rates.

Sure it might dominate on iOS, Android, Linux, MacOS and other OS's, but those aren't really platforms where you see bleeding edge graphics, it's always on the PC with Microsoft Windows and Direct X.

As for Sony influencing the design of the Xbox CPU, I doubt they would have to any great extent.
IBM was the origional creator of the PowerPC architecture, Sony did collaborate on the design for the Cell processor but mostly it's based on IBM technology at any rate, it's not like Sony made a whole new instruction set, but they may have improved the PowerPC instruction set for all future designs, so next generation may benefit from this. But without more indepth knowledge on PowerPC I can't really say for sure.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

15.94% of VG memebers voted "NO". Is there anyone can explain?



No, cuz of RROD..

I know I am right, I don't have to provide a legitimate explanation.



Disconnect and self destruct, one bullet a time.