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Forums - Politics - Israel moves to legalize unauthorized settlements

Player1x3 on 12 April 2012
Kasz216 said:
Player1x3 said:
Kasz216 said:
Player1x3 said:
Kasz216 said:
Mnementh said:
Kasz216 said:
Mnementh said:
killerzX said:

 

,

The large difference currently is that Palestine isn't a nation.  Other nations existence are less disputable because they are currently nations.

An "flipped" example would be something like Kosovo.  Which was disputable as a nation, then became one, and now it a nation.  This is slightly different since more or less Palestine is more of a "no mans land" then it is a part of Israel, but it's closer then compaing Palestine to say Greece, later Kosvo or even something like South Ossetia.

 


Kosovo was never in its entire history of existence even close of becoming anything even remotely related to a nation. The most close it got when it was an autonomous province within Serbia. And no one even referred to it as a province before that. It was just a geographical region, like Rock Mountains.  And even when the war was over, Resolution 1244 assured that Kosovo would remain as a Serbian territory. But of course USA and the other Westerners broke that Resolution (cuz you know, they need to build their bases and feed their paranoia of Russia) and that's why kosovo is considered an independent nation by some people today. Even tho Kosovo  is everything but ''independent''

See... Palestine?  Nothing you said there actually differs from Palestine... well outside of Russia.


It doesn't differ from Israel either...i mean Israel and Palestinia are 2 different names for the same region


Except for the part where Israel's been a legitamite country since 1948... with the "palestinian" parts largely in Israeli hands because Egypt and Jordan didn't want to bother anymore.


I'd hardly call it legitimate. Palestine has as much right to become an independent nation as Israel



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Rath on 12 April 2012

@Kasz. Palestine has broad international recognition as a state - much more than practically any other partially recognized state (for example Kosovo or Taiwan).



menx64 on 12 April 2012

Israel is going to have a bad ending, I can feel it... I hope I am wrong though...



Menx64

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fauzman on 12 April 2012
Slimebeast said:
crissindahouse said:
Slimebeast said:

I would like to add that there's two components in the Israeli-Arab(Palestinian) conflict. One is the legal and moral perspective which we in the West tend to (naively) focus on, but another is the practical struggle for survival and try to win. In the Middle East it's not so much about who is right or who is wrong, it's very much a battle of give and take. The strongest and wittiest simply wins. If you give your finger to your opponent you risk losing your hand. All decisions on both sides of the conflict are more or less based on this practical struggle rather than on morals.

Yes, we can refer to Jewish history in the territory, Arab history in the territory, the British mandate, the UN partition plan, 1948 borders, 1967 borders, Camp David agreements, Oslo accords, secret peace talks, UN resolutions, international law, human rights and bla bla bla. You have so many arguments that everyone values differently, and we can exchange these arguments back and forth, but in the long run what really matters and what will decide the outcome of the conflict is who will outsmart the other, who is the strongest.

i don't believe as example usa would let another country there "outsmart" israel. just look how usa is paying half (or something like that) of  israels iron dome system which is destroying the incoming rockets.

so for me, it's not only who is stronger there, someone will always get the backup from other countries.

Of course the conflict has all sorts of allies and these are all included in the struggle.

Israel gets support from the Jewish diaspora, USA, evangelical christians and conservatives while Palestinians get support from the Arab world, muslims, European media and left-wingers.

You are partially right. Palestinians are supported by the majority of the arab world but not all of it (Jordan and pre-arab spring Egypt were both Israeli allies). Also there is a lot of support for them with muslims, european media and liberals. 

BUT that support is NOT equivalent with the support for Israel. While the support for Palestinians is mostly ideological and is provided in terms of aid and money, the support for Israel (in America) is in terms of money, weapons, cutting-edge tech and political influence. The support America provides for Israel in its influence on the global scene (where they struck down a resolution attempting to pressure Israel), with new tech it provides to no other country and the peace negotiations which it skews in Israels favour all mean that Israels allies have a much much bigger impact on the issue than do the Palestinian allies. 



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fauzman on 12 April 2012

My personal opinion is that Israel is backing itself into a corner. Once it absorbs all the land in the West Bank it wants, which will probably be everything other than the 10% currently controlled by the PA, the only option left will be a one state multi-ethnic and multi-religious state. Anything other than this i.e. the jewish having more rights than the palestinians, would be a state with shades of apartheid and would loose all credibility and would eventually fall. Im not saying that the jewish would die or the palestinians would dominate but the government system would have to change to be more equitable.



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Player1x3 on 12 April 2012
haxxiy said:

They need lebensraum. Praise be to our Holy Western Ways.


LOL



Jumpin on 12 April 2012

I am not sure Jordan is against Palestine. The King of Jordan is a HUGE Star Trek fan. In the Next Generation there was a occupational force called the Cardassians (Israel), whose empire came to cover a region once home to other civilizations (Palestinians). The occupied regions were supported by a force called the Mahki (Hamas) who fought against the Cardassians (Israel) for the freedom of planets such as Bajor and others (Palestine).

The Cardassians were supported by a much stronger foreign force from the Gamma Quadrant (Western continent) who called themselves the Dominion (the US). Eventually the Dominion began attacking the Federation (Islamic nations) with the official reason being because of terrorism against them and the Cardassians; but in reality they wanted to occupy lands and enforce their ideologies (American greed based capitalism).

The King of Jordan is spending billions to build a giant Star Trek meseum/theme park. It is easy to see how the native Middle Easterners will draw connections here and why they would be fans of Star Trek.

The King of Jordan actually appeared in a Star Trek episode as a Mahki crew member of Voyager. In his heart, he supports Palestine.



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Mr Khan on 12 April 2012
fauzman said:
My personal opinion is that Israel is backing itself into a corner. Once it absorbs all the land in the West Bank it wants, which will probably be everything other than the 10% currently controlled by the PA, the only option left will be a one state multi-ethnic and multi-religious state. Anything other than this i.e. the jewish having more rights than the palestinians, would be a state with shades of apartheid and would loose all credibility and would eventually fall. Im not saying that the jewish would die or the palestinians would dominate but the government system would have to change to be more equitable.

That would be the danger of total integration, though i had read that, because of the Orthodox, the Jewish birth rate is up high enough that it wouldn't be a complete democratic swamp if they ran a 1-state solution.



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Turkish on 12 April 2012

I think Turkey should govern the whole Middle east again, during Turkish rule it was the longest time of peace for over 600 years. No problem between the jews, xtians or muslims living in those lands. Just like the Balkans. When Turks retreated, all hell broke lose lol.



Player1x3 on 12 April 2012
Turkish said:
I think Turkey should govern the whole Middle east again, during Turkish rule it was the longest time of peace for over 600 years. No problem between the jews, xtians or muslims living in those lands. Just like the Balkans. When Turks retreated, all hell broke lose lol.


Yeah because all the violence was done by the Turks already so people didn't need extra blood