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Forums - General Discussion - Is evolution based on empirical science?

OoSnap said:

Absolutely not! Have we ever observed bacteria evolve into something else other than bacteria? Nope.

What about fruitflies? Nope. Still the same even after decades of fruitfly experiments. Sure the mutants have a different form and such (albeit more sickly and less fit) but they are still fruitflies.

Have we ever observed a reptile evolve into a bird? Have we ever observed molecules evolve into a life form? Nope and nope.

Evolution is not based on hard science but made up stories by people who spent thousands of dollars to get a title on their name. Don't be deceived. You are not the result of billions of years of evolution.

That said there are hardcore skeptics who say they only believe what they see but they have never seen evolution. A cat gives birth to a cat. A dog gives birth to a dog. People give birth to humans. Yet these same skeptics believe all life evolved from some primordial cell without ever observing it. Talk about being inconsistent and loopy [[confused]] ·It takes a lot of faith to believe the evolution story.

We have acutally...there are lizard types that are identical except for reproductive organs. The same lizard can be oberseved living in mountains and using internal carrying mechanisms for child rearing and lower on the same island they lay eggs...other than that identical species....demonstrates adaptability to ones envrionment which is a principle of evolution.

If you're implying there is any merit to creationism you're a kook or a really good comedian...





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OoSnap said:

Absolutely not! Have we ever observed bacteria evolve into something else other than bacteria? Nope.

We breeded already bacteria with multiple resistances against different antibiotica. So we oberved bacteria to evolve into another bacteria.

OoSnap said:

What about fruitflies? Nope. Still the same even after decades of fruitfly experiments. Sure the mutants have a different form and such (albeit more sickly and less fit) but they are still fruitflies.

I don't know much about fruitflies. Maybe there exist observations. But I know about animal breeding. That actually gave Darwin the basic idea about the workings of evolution. Many in this thread showed the evolution from wolf to dog. There you has observation of the evolution from one species to another.

OoSnap said:

Have we ever observed a reptile evolve into a bird? Have we ever observed molecules evolve into a life form? Nope and nope.

 We have many experiments to deduce how organic molecules could be come into existance from the environment in the early earth.

The Miller-Urey-experiment was a very early step for this. The formation of other molecules used in modern biological life has be shown in other experiments.

Experiments also show the emergence of protocells as another step to life.

OoSnap said:

Evolution is not based on hard science but made up stories by people who spent thousands of dollars to get a title on their name. Don't be deceived. You are not the result of billions of years of evolution.

 From the absence of observation of evolution you heard of, you deduce the FACT that we are not the product of evolution. Man, you are no skeptic. A skeptic would say: I'm not sure you are a product of evolution.

And even complete absence of observations of evolution (and the examples are given, that we observed it already) does not mean we have no evidence. We have fossil evidence, genetic observations and more like that. And we discovered so many strange things, that every creational theory has a hard time to explain, but evolution theory can explain.

Do you know about the human eye? The optical nerves from the sensoric cells lead INTO the eye. They are in the path of the light, before it hits the sensoric cells. And they need to be lead outside to the brain. Thats the blind spot: every creator making such stuff, has to be drunk or an idiot. It's much easier to explain with evolution. In early eyes with only some sensoric cells and without focusing lenses, it didn't matter, in which direction the nerves are routed. So it was up to chance. Later on the eyes step for step developed into modern eyes. To redirect the nerves, it would've been needed to go some steps back - such mutation could see worse and therefore weren't selected. So it stayed uncorrected. In the eyes of an octopus the chance was more in favor of a clever constructed eye.

OoSnap said:

That said there are hardcore skeptics who say they only believe what they see but they have never seen evolution. A cat gives birth to a cat. A dog gives birth to a dog. People give birth to humans. Yet these same skeptics believe all life evolved from some primordial cell without ever observing it. Talk about being inconsistent and loopy [[confused]] ·It takes a lot of faith to believe the evolution story.

Wolfs gave birth to more dog-like wolfs, that gave birth to even more dog-like wolfs, that ..., that gave birth to a dog.



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_mevildan said:
huaxiong90 said:

This is all I'm going to say:

Microevolution = Fact, and not up for debate.

Macroevolution = (Unsubstantiated) Theory.


This one often comes out in evolution debates. I'm guessing either you have read a lot about the subject and formed this conclusion independently, or... you've been watching videos by Ken Ham, Kent Hovind or Carl Baugh.

If you want some substantiation for Macroevolution, then check this out.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

WTF?! Dude, I couldn't care less about young earth creationists, never mind the fact that I'm not even a Christian. I actually look up this info on my own.

And I've already read that link. But there's a lot of logical fallacies in there, particularly the apes and humans part. It doesn't matter how much we spin circumstantial evidence to support our claims...macroevolution will remain a theory until concrete, undeniable proof is brought forward, with all parameters checked.

Until then, like I said: Microevolution is what's established as an undeniable fact (and I have no doubts about any bit of its scope)...macroevolution is not even close to that point.



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huaxiong90 said:
_mevildan said:
huaxiong90 said:

This is all I'm going to say:

Microevolution = Fact, and not up for debate.

Macroevolution = (Unsubstantiated) Theory.


This one often comes out in evolution debates. I'm guessing either you have read a lot about the subject and formed this conclusion independently, or... you've been watching videos by Ken Ham, Kent Hovind or Carl Baugh.

If you want some substantiation for Macroevolution, then check this out.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

WTF?! Dude, I couldn't care less about young earth creationists, never mind the fact that I'm not even a Christian. I actually look up this info on my own.

And I've already read that link. But there's a lot of logical fallacies in there, particularly the apes and humans part. It doesn't matter how much we spin circumstantial evidence to support our claims...macroevolution will remain a theory until concrete, undeniable proof is brought forward, with all parameters checked.

Until then, like I said: Microevolution is what's established as an undeniable fact (and I don't deny any bit of its scope)...macroevolution is not even close to that point.

and so will gravitation until we find the cause I guess

until then non-believers are free to fly away



Lafiel said:
huaxiong90 said:
_mevildan said:
huaxiong90 said:

This is all I'm going to say:

Microevolution = Fact, and not up for debate.

Macroevolution = (Unsubstantiated) Theory.


This one often comes out in evolution debates. I'm guessing either you have read a lot about the subject and formed this conclusion independently, or... you've been watching videos by Ken Ham, Kent Hovind or Carl Baugh.

If you want some substantiation for Macroevolution, then check this out.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

WTF?! Dude, I couldn't care less about young earth creationists, never mind the fact that I'm not even a Christian. I actually look up this info on my own.

And I've already read that link. But there's a lot of logical fallacies in there, particularly the apes and humans part. It doesn't matter how much we spin circumstantial evidence to support our claims...macroevolution will remain a theory until concrete, undeniable proof is brought forward, with all parameters checked.

Until then, like I said: Microevolution is what's established as an undeniable fact (and I don't deny any bit of its scope)...macroevolution is not even close to that point.

and so will gravitation until we find the cause I guess

until then non-believers are free to fly away

Difference: Gravitation is substantiated. Strongly. VERY strongly.



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huaxiong90 said:
Lafiel said:

and so will gravitation until we find the cause I guess

until then non-believers are free to fly away

Difference: Gravitation is substantiated. Strongly. VERY strongly.

why ? because we don't fall off this rock in space?

we never discovered the elementary particle or wave/energy whatever that actually causes it



Lafiel said:
huaxiong90 said:
Lafiel said:

and so will gravitation until we find the cause I guess

until then non-believers are free to fly away

Difference: Gravitation is substantiated. Strongly. VERY strongly.

why ? because we don't fall of this rock in space?

we never discovered the elementary particle or wave/energy whatever that actually causes it

And we should keep looking, I mean, who knows what we could find. But as it is now, the logic and reason behind gravity, which is supported by numerous tests, is the closest we've got.



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huaxiong90 said:

This is all I'm going to say:

Microevolution = Fact, and not up for debate.

Macroevolution = (Unsubstantiated) Theory.


Both = same thing.

Macroevolution is just minor changes that have built up over a long period of time. Evolution between species has been observed in the fossil record.

 

Also the theory of gravity is a bad comparison. Gravity still confuses the hell out of scientists - evolution doesn't.



Rath said:
huaxiong90 said:

This is all I'm going to say:

Microevolution = Fact, and not up for debate.

Macroevolution = (Unsubstantiated) Theory.


Both = same thing.

Macroevolution is just minor changes that have built up over a long period of time. Evolution between species has been observed in the fossil record.


Yeah, I think huaxiong90 mixed up Macroevolution and Macromutation.



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Barozi said:
I think we should "create" a new religion section just for this guy.

And me!  I loooove debating mythology!



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