By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sales Discussion - PS3's Move Closing The Sales Gap with Kinect

Alby_da_Wolf said:
ImJustBayuum said:

1. Nobody knows how long the launch window for Kinect is, meaning that $500mil could've had been spread out across a couple of months to a year.

BTW Kinects original selling price was $150, its manufacturing costs around $56 and total costs after overheads is likely $70-$90.And thus those costs have likely been recouped

http://kotaku.com/5688040/report-kinect-only-cost-56-to-make

But regardless

2. - Kinect for MS is more about long term strategy than profitability

3. - I don't know what Move is to Sony, because it changed nothing with regards to Sony's gaming division / strategy. It's kind of a wasted effort from a business perspective.

1. It's just a guess, but as normally companies announce investments and revenues for the fiscal year, and with the further confirmation given by MS stating that this time it doubled the previous advertising budget to $1billion, but this time specifying it was for Kinect and XB360 put together (while last year it announced $1B for Kinect and Windows Phone put together, with some execs later specifying $500M for Kinect http://allthingsd.com/20101018/microsofts-billion-dollar-media-bailout-plan/ ), IMVHO the most likely time span could be from launch to the end of fiscal year. This time the budget should very likely be from October 2011 to the end of FY.

2. I agree about this, and the strategy despite not fully, worked more than enough: thanks also to Ninty totally neglecting its competing product, former market niche monopolist, and almost only pushing the game included, Kinect eventually managed to outsell weekly Balance Board, first only in America, then WW, and finally even tying in EMEAA, despite being still quite weak in this region. 

3. Again just my opinion, Sony main current goals about Move seem to avoid being left behind in motion controls and possibly to carve its own exclusive little niche for "hardcore friendly" motion controls, while its competitors look like they manage to very often piss hardcore gamers off. 

3. I know its just your opinion, and i respect it but if one of their their goals with the Move is to create a new niche market (hardcore motion gaming), than IMO they are wasting their efforts and resources.The influence of motion support  on a core buyer's decision to purchase a game or not IMO will be  very  little in comparison to other aspects like quality, brand etc

For example, most core gamers will buy KZ3 because of the quality and brand rather than for the move support. For those that bought it because of the move support, will be in the minority. So is it really worth the effort/resources chasing that minority without charging a premium price?

"avoid being left behind in motion controls" do you mean trying to capture a piece of the casual pie. Out of the 3, Sony seems to be the least successful with regards to capturing the casual market. From my perspective, I fail to see any major benefit Move brought to Sony



Around the Network
sales2099 said:
Jay520 said:
sales2099 said:
Silver-Tiger said:
enrageorange said:
Really scewed wording. 10mil kinects by march vs 9mil move devices currently. Considering I alone have 5 "move devices", 4 wands, and 1 navigation and I don't think anybody is buying multiple kinects. Kinect offers developers a far larger userbase.


Although I agree with this, don't forget that Sony didn't make money with the userbase, they made money with the sold Move units, which stand at 9 million now. No matter how big the userbase is, 9 million units were sold in the Sony business books.


Yes but in terms of actually reaching out to as many consumers as possible....Kinect clearly is the winner, by a lot. 

And its more like 9 million in terms of revenue....not profit. I dont know if you follow Sony financials, but they are dripping red ink :)



What's up with a smiley face at the end of your posts. It's a little creepy to be honest

More like its meant to show me smiling, confident that I said a proper post. 

I can creep if I want and your not the smile police

:)



Seriously, it's disturbing.

Jay520 said:
sales2099 said:

More like its meant to show me smiling, confident that I said a proper post. 

I can creep if I want and your not the smile police

:)



Seriously, it's disturbing.

I find it more annoying than disturbing.



Mr Puggsly said:
o_O.Q said:

 

these are all move only games releasing in just this month alone they are probably more but these are the ones i know of thats more games than nintendo has probably released for the year up till now for the wii... people really need to stop pushing these kind of stupid ignorant comments "All Sony does is convert their current titles to support Move and call it a day" if you don't know don't make the claim

 



Notice all those games are published by Sony? Lack of 3rd party titles requiring Move is probably a sign of how strong the hardware is doing.

Also, why is Sony raping its userbase with these lame casual Move titles? I feel like these games are already in the bargain bin.


"Notice all those games are published by Sony?"

that wasn't by coincidence... he specified sony's apparent lack of support so i responded with titles they are releasing...


"why is Sony raping its userbase with these lame casual Move titles?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvTgLTrTfqE

that was a joke right? how is kinect any different?



Jazz2K said:
oniyide said:
ironmanDX said:
Jazz2K said:


And people laugh at Kinect's library?


It's motion based controls for Sony and M$, they all want to show it off and put casual games out there at the same time, games are bound to be nearly the same even though they're on competitive consoles. So us as "core" gamers are going to laugh at a lot of the games.

THIS, and holy crap I have Move and I didnt even know about half that stuff. And please with the Kinect, has anyone actually been to a store with the Kinect line up?? Its nothing to be proud of. Im sure that all the games on this list have to be better than Hulk Hogan's workout.

Yea but still... there are good Kinect games outhere... I didn't even know what were Move's games but seing this list I don't wanna know anymore.


"there are good Kinect games outhere"

which ones would you recommend?



Around the Network
ImJustBayuum said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

ImJustBayuum said:

[...]

3. - I don't know what Move is to Sony, because it changed nothing with regards to Sony's gaming division / strategy. It's kind of a wasted effort from a business perspective.

[...]

3. Again just my opinion, Sony main current goals about Move seem to avoid being left behind in motion controls and possibly to carve its own exclusive little niche for "hardcore friendly" motion controls, while its competitors look like they manage to very often piss hardcore gamers off. 

3. I know its just your opinion, and i respect it but if one of their their goals with the Move is to create a new niche market (hardcore motion gaming), than IMO they are wasting their efforts and resources.The influence of motion support  on a core buyer's decision to purchase a game or not IMO will be  very  little in comparison to other aspects like quality, brand etc

For example, most core gamers will buy KZ3 because of the quality and brand rather than for the move support. For those that bought it because of the move support, will be in the minority. So is it really worth the effort/resources chasing that minority without charging a premium price?

"avoid being left behind in motion controls" do you mean trying to capture a piece of the casual pie. Out of the 3, Sony seems to be the least successful with regards to capturing the casual market. From my perspective, I fail to see any major benefit Move brought to Sony

My fault, I should have been more precise: with "avoid being left behind in motion controls" I meant mainly having the tech ready, and, even not doing wonder sales, accumulating experience, recouping R&D and initial costs, driving down production cost and grabbing as much market share as possible in the process. The niche bit is currently a main goal only due to its size compared to the total current size of the business for Sony, but it's also an opportunity target worth not neglecting for many reasons, first it's easy to add Move support to classic games, second, high precision motion controls aren't hated as simplified ones by hardcore gamers, so it's worth for Sony to present itself to them as the producer of the most friendly motion control for them, third, as MS and Nintendo neglect the hardcore motion control niche, it's really worth for Sony to try to grab it even if it's a little one, as it's a really easy target, almost no competition at all (it may not be a "Blue Ocean", but we could surely call it a "Blue Pond"  ). These goals are surely smaller than the casual market, the benefit is surely small, but they come for very little effort, so the profit margin is big, and they allow Sony to get experience, as I wrote, and not be left behind. The benefit is currently small, but it exists, and the damage not doing anything would instead be huge. Obviously to call Move a big success, Sony will have to conquer a far larger share of the casual market, but selling some million Moves even before it's ready to attack the biggest target is surely better than having to start from scratch. A last benefit that Sony is right to get and not overlook, is that driving Move's cost down early, it will be able to include it as standard with PS4, if needed, without making its total initial cost grow too much. Concluding, a series of small benefits, even the biggest ones, but that put together make it worthier for Sony doing it than not.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


kowenicki said:
Nereid said:
sales2099 said:
drkohler said:
sales2099 said:

 

And its more like 9 million in terms of revenue....not profit. I dont know if you follow Sony financials, but they are dripping red ink :)

?????? "And its more like 9 million in terms of revenue" - are you that dense?

We all can read the financial reports and see that Sony, as a company, is in the red. What does this have to do with the fact that Move, as a device, is profitable on the manufacturing level, but probably not (yet) on the production level?

And here is a little surprise for you: the Kinect device is exactly on the same path as the Move device: profitable on the manufacturing level, not (yet) profitable on the production level.

Im afraid Move isn't profitable on any level.....

MS on the other hand said that Kinect is sold at a profit, and MS actually posts profits in their quarterly earnings :)


You cant be serious with this...

Move is likely to be more profitable than kinect anyway, are you forgetting that various companies rejected this technology because it was too expensive? Not to mention Microsoft's 500 million dollar push last holidays.

Both are definitely profitable at the margin.


The $500m thing is bogus... its in line with the spend of all the big three on any normal holiday push and is no big deal.  I have looked into this and provided the information here several times before.  It really needs to stop being repeated ad nauseum as some golden nugget of information and in some way unsual.

Hell we even saw recently that Uncharted had a marketing spend of £5m in the UK alone. thats £5m ($7.5m) on one game in one country.

Nintedno also spent $500m in advertising in the final quarter of both 2009 and 2010.  God knows how much sony would have spent... a lot more probably.

Its nothing special or unsual.  

 


It's nothing special or unusual?

It's the biggest spend on a gaming periperhal ever for starters.

Do Sony spend anywhere near that amount for Playstation advertisement? I seriously doubt it.

Sony's biggest marketing campaign across Europe since launch, in 2009, during the launch of the Slim, was shy of $100 million. One fifth of what was reportedly spent on Kinect. That was Sony's push during a remodel and after price cut, in their biggest market.

Could you provide a link to Nintendo spending $500m in those quarters? It wouldn't surprise me, I'd have thought Nintendo would have spent the most given their massive profits and market position earlier in the gen. I'd also imagine that's an advertising spend spread over both the DS and the Wii.

That Uncharted figure could actually be small scale in comparison to the budget for other games (Halo 3-$40 million, Wii Fit- $40 million) for example.

Really nothing I've seen or read implies that $500m for Kinect is anything short of gigantic in scale.



 

o_O.Q said:
Jazz2K said:
oniyide said:
ironmanDX said:
Jazz2K said:


And people laugh at Kinect's library?


It's motion based controls for Sony and M$, they all want to show it off and put casual games out there at the same time, games are bound to be nearly the same even though they're on competitive consoles. So us as "core" gamers are going to laugh at a lot of the games.

THIS, and holy crap I have Move and I didnt even know about half that stuff. And please with the Kinect, has anyone actually been to a store with the Kinect line up?? Its nothing to be proud of. Im sure that all the games on this list have to be better than Hulk Hogan's workout.

Yea but still... there are good Kinect games outhere... I didn't even know what were Move's games but seing this list I don't wanna know anymore.


"there are good Kinect games outhere"

which ones would you recommend?


I don't want to go into list wars just ask people who have a Kinect or go see sells/reviews and you'll see.



Jazz2K said:
o_O.Q said:
Jazz2K said:
oniyide said:
ironmanDX said:
Jazz2K said:


And people laugh at Kinect's library?


It's motion based controls for Sony and M$, they all want to show it off and put casual games out there at the same time, games are bound to be nearly the same even though they're on competitive consoles. So us as "core" gamers are going to laugh at a lot of the games.

THIS, and holy crap I have Move and I didnt even know about half that stuff. And please with the Kinect, has anyone actually been to a store with the Kinect line up?? Its nothing to be proud of. Im sure that all the games on this list have to be better than Hulk Hogan's workout.

Yea but still... there are good Kinect games outhere... I didn't even know what were Move's games but seing this list I don't wanna know anymore.


"there are good Kinect games outhere"

which ones would you recommend?


I don't want to go into list wars just ask people who have a Kinect or go see sells/reviews and you'll see.

you're the one who made the claim i was just asking for examples... in terms of people i know who own kinect all i've heard so far is that its a massive disappointment, mind you the same is said of move

but when you post this "there are good Kinect games outhere" you're implying that the kinect lineup has been significantly better than the move lineup and i just don't see it, so i was just asking for help from you so i can see what you're apparently seeing



Mr Puggsly said:
Clearly this article is just a spin and the website was looking for attention.

I mean isn't it odd that there is no mention of userbase or software sales?


There talking about Hardware sales, not software not userbase, how is that hard to understand?? Why does it matter anyway?? 9 million controllers sold is 9 million sold. You think a book publisher, or car maker or anyone cares if more than one person bought there book or car??